Dee74

Hi Kaily
You know that people can die from seizures tho right?

Of course I remember your story and everything - but that doesn't really change the fact that the best option if you run into trouble is to seek medical advice.

I've never thought you were lying - if my local hospital gave me that keep drinking advice, no matter how many times you'd presented there, I'd follow that up with a complaint to the relevant government minister and your MP and I'd go to a different hospital in future.

I'm sorry if all that means you don't think much of the site anymore, but it's your best interests we have at heart, man!

D

Gottalife

Dee, that keep drinking advice is given in NZ too. It shows a rather pathetic ignorance of alcoholism, because what they want you to do is drink moderately for a few weeks until they can get you into detox. They ask the impossible.

The real reason is arse covering in this modern age. If they tell you to stop and you die from a siezure, they will be in trouble. If you stay drunk, no liability attaches to them. It has nothing to do with what's best for the patient.

Kaily, a lot of alcoholics of my type (hopeless variety) do manage to recover if they are willing to do what it takes. On the journey to the point where we acquire the willingness, we normally don't see why we should have to do certain things. We shop around for alternatives. We might realise we have to quit and we might try a number of approaches to that, usually starting with willpower and progressing on from there.

Some call it step zero, going round and round checking off what doesn't work. The thing is a lot of what didn't work for me, works fine for the majority of problem drinkers, and they solve their problem. They decide enough is enough and they can stick to that. And good for them. But it really pi*s88s me off when they tell me I should be able to do that, when I can't.

Oh just stop drinking? Like I never thought of that. I lacked the power to carry that off. Eventually I got to a point that I was willing to do anything within my power, with no reservations. I went to AA, tried a few meetings, and drank again. Then I went back and started seeking this Power that AA talks about, as my power was obviously not enough. The act of beginning to sincerely seek the Power, was sufficient for me to stop drinking, and the process I got into enabled me to stay stopped.

I had lost the power of choice in drink and I never got it back. Instead the problem was removed and the whole idea of choice became redundant.

Dee74

I've heard that before about NZ, or some parts of it anyway.Mike...

I don't know what the advice is in Australia cos fear and pride kept me from seeing a Dr about my alcoholism.

If I had, I reckon I might have had a better last detox experience.

D

Kaily

Thank you Gottalife some support at last. I was beginning to think that nobody actually understood.
As you say like I have never thought of just not drinking!

ljc267

Kaily, to suggest that no one here understands you is very short sighted. I mean we are alcoholics so we are pretty much just like you. I believe everyone is just trying to help you and are offering suggestions that worked for them.

I guess the bottom line is do you really want to quit? If the answer is yes then find a way to do it.

What I did is cut back from 12 beers a day to 5 beers a day and quit cold. It took about 2 months. I did it on my own. Was it easy? No, but I truly wanted to quit and I knew that was the only way "I" could do it. I am the kind of person who needs to be in control of things, so that is why I chose that path. AA, rehab, and whatnot is not for me, but it is for many. You need to find what's right for you. Decide a plan of action and do it. It's certainly not easy but you can do it if it is what you really want.

I truly wish you the best

Jojay

I did much the same as you,ljc.I cut back gradualy for several weeks,prior to May 10th last year,my D.day.Then cold Turkey.Didn't know what I was in for though,as I hadn't found SR quite then.But did a few weeks into my withdrawals.I was in the throws of intense anxiety plus panic attacks when I found this site and the support and reassurance was and still is second to none.

Jojay

Hi Kaily.Do.you have ANY contact atall from any family,even though they do not check on you?Any family living in the same town as yourself?We on here to indeed care about your welfare.Keep posting

August252015

My last post here:

I am one of those who did quit cold turkey. From a handle of vodka (that's the biggest US size bottle) every 2 days (or less). Perhaps that is why I might seem to you, Kaily, as "harsh" (my word, not yours) or rigid or so certain.

It is possible, and I lived. I am glad I was so sick that I went that route, and I am glad that I got through it. My route is not the recommended one by many, and I often think I must have the hide of a rhinoceros (for a 5'7" woman who was about 115 when I quit and now about 125-130) to go through what I did.

It worked.

I will never drink again.

I think the point that ALL of us are trying to make is threefold: one, you (all of us!) have to stop somehow; two, it is possible; three, SOME kind of help is available in medical form or other, of your own will initially (you know I am an avid AAer so turning over my will had to follow that immediately) or with some assistance.

I never thought you were lying. I think you are hurt, scared, drunk/drinking, and sick - distorted thinking of epic proportions and incredible physical distress were two of my last "resorts" in my final days of drinking. My life depended on quitting- I decided that a year or 18 mo to live at 39 wasn't what I wanted.

Again, I pray some part of you will listen and HEAR what we are telling you: there is hope, and you can get to the other side.

Heartfelt care-
A

ljc267

Me too. I got through the initial withdrawals without a whole lot of problems. I had pretty bad headaches and felt generally unwell, but I expected much worse, so maybe that was it. The after stuff is what really got me, and that is how I found SR.

Knowing that there were people like me that had experienced what I was experiencing made a bid difference and helped me stay sober.

Jojay

The headaches were like having your head in an extremely tight vice weren't they?Niave me didn't realise that it was my alcohol scrambled brain reacting....my emotions were all over the place too.Dee 74 on here was amazing.

Jojay

Good post August.I reckon maybe I didn't suffer anywhere near as acutely as yourself as my drink was cider.Vast quantities for around 18years mind.Take care

ljc267

At almost 4 months I still get about one a week, but not as bad and much less often. I never got headaches while drinking, unless it was a bad hangover, which is weird, right?

Jojay

Nope,I didn't get any headaches while still drinking,only as the result of a bad hangover,too.None for ages,thank goodness.

Algorithm

I agree with the CYA assessment, but some hospitals in the UK publish actual tapering down guidelines for alcohol, which are widely used under professional community supervision.

You can be safely off the drink in about eight days with this approach, which is as old as the hills. No modern drug substitution necessary.

It certainly does help to have someone else keep track of the drinks, though, which I suppose is why it works well in a community supervision setting.

That's very interesting, because Rational Recovery has actually referred to AVRT as "Step Zero" in some of their own materials.

Kaily,

What Mike describes is the so-called gift of desperation, where one becomes willing to go to any lengths. It is a time of special, indeed desperate vulnerability, where one becomes receptive to any avenue that promises relief.

I suggest not waiting to find yourself in such a dire situation, for the simple reason that continuing to drink is actually one of the avenues that promises relief. This is largely why people keep drinking.

People don't often mention that part, unfortunately. Everyone does break eventually, but if you wait to break, the losses can be absolutely devastating. Many who choose this route will simply not make it.

Grymt

Ah, there is a name for where I came from. 'Gift of Desperation'. Hmmm...who'd'a thunk it.

I still say it's a matter for the KISS principle.

I was being enabled by a lady who brought me booze and expected sex. She didn't drink. I had the dt's and had tried suicide. She was a nurse and had talked to a doc at work who said until I get into rehab to keep drinking and then detox in rehab under supervision. I think that was good advice.

First I kicked her out of my life. Then I gave a couple of mates my things to do with what they liked and then I rang the rehab and got a bed and time, had my last drink, caught the train and spent a month at the rehab, got away with a lapse, moved on to a six month stretch at a recovery farm, busted, another couple of months back at the farm. joined a travelling evangelical tent for the rest of the year, ended up in brisvegas, busted, locked myself up at a dryhouse for a month and finally I think I was trying to get serious. 3 meetings a day for 30 days. I saw friends I made there falling down all the time but for some reason I found the determination to keep going.

I managed to not drink when I left and took a trip around the world but busted in europe. Somehow managed to get dry and back home with the help of some great AA people in a little danish village. Back home met up with a lady I hadn't seen for decades, almost at the beginning of my drinking career. Stupid codependent relationship. Got a dui. Hunkered down to an unbroken 6 month binge.

Then finally, after all that, having never got the bit about av's, beasts, etc the craving was gone in 2004. I had a brief lapse (a day and a half, again a relationship thing) about 2008 and nothing since.

I got there by stopping drinking long enough to start to deal with life as it is sober. It took a few goes but that's it.

healthychoices

I hear you amigo, am here with you in the good struggle, once the booze stops working time to let it go I reckon!

Jojay

Truely inspirational post Grympt.

Gottalife

I wouldn't have called it that Algo. I am not a fan of those g.o.d. Acronyms. Desperate vulnerability could be apt. I certainly reached a point where I was open to a spiritual experience, and according to experts in such things, complete defeat is a pre requisite.

It wasn't like I couldn't see where my path was taking me either. I had much good advice along the lines of quitting before it got worse, and I knew it was good advice. I tried to follow it but never could.

At the end of the day, my mental obsession was so subtly powerful, and my mental strength so sadly lacking, that I was simply unable to give the good advice the correct priority. In my condition in the first few weeks of sobriety, a major decision was what socks to wear. I had lost the ability to reason and had very little capacity to take in new information, let alone understand it.

From this dark spot, expressing only a willingness to believe that a power greater than myself might possibly restore me to sanity, in the same way that it had helped others in the fellowship, I was launched on a path to permanent recovery that I never thought possible. John Barleycorn was indeed the best advocate.

Jojay

A very thought provoking post,Gottalife.Your posts are always good and definately must help so many within the SR community

August252015

Ditto- all of your post was relatable, Gottalife and the socks comment (of all things!) got me. In the first weeks of my sobriety, a successful day was something like "eat twice, shower, make the bed."

I couldn't have imagined the life I have now and it took everything it took in my drinking life to get me here.