bemyself

Interesting, Jeff. "The U.S. Census Bureau has estimated New York City's population at 8,550,405, as of July 2015." [my emphasis].

Sorry, couldn't resist. But seriously, yeah, our alcoholic thinking can come up with ANYTHING. It's almost laughable, really, if it wasn't so bloody dangerous.

You can do this and wake up tomorrow, saying: 'phhff! what the hell was all THAT about?!' And that's while all the Derby-goers are groaning and vomiting in their beds.

zlhzlh

Jeff, you sound awfully low. I really feel for you. I am a big fan of horse racing too ! I was at Goodwood the other day and walked into the Richmond enclosure and was astounded at the amount of champagne bottles there were, tables full of half empty and half full glasses!! I ordered a coffee, one man at the bar actually commented ".she's having coffee" I wanted to smack him one lol! Anyway moving on, I felt quite amazing walking out with my £2.60 coffee .....I had an amazing day , the cheers from the crowd were incredible and the atmosphere I experienced was something that I haven't felt for some time. I even bagged myself a winner 'BLOND ME' what I am trying to say Jeff, is look at the bigger picture, I had a moment when stood at the bar when I thought. Champagne darling? But it was a nano second, I then thought about those people on their 2nd, 3rd bottle, stumbling out, becoming morose, loud, argumentative, and then the following day waking up feeling like ****..

That's not what it's about, the moment is enjoying the race, the atmosphere, being sober allows you to enjoy all of it and the the next day remembering and enjoying the memory. X keep strong buddy

Meraviglioso

Jeff, it is really time to see a professional about this depression. I am sorry for what you are going through and sorry for your low self esteem.
I am also really concerned about this constant comparing yourself to others and feeling "less than" or wanting to be a bigger man, more important, more successful, what have you. Your feelings are your feelings, so I cannot tel you that they are right are wrong- for whatever reason youdo feel this way, but honestly, it is time get on living your life.
We each have our own.
I won't go into my own examples because what is important is your examples, but I could compare myself at length with others should I choose to.
Remember the keep it all in perspective.
Over the years I have repeatedly had long lost friends come into contact and comment "wow, you up and moved to Italy, living the dream under the Tuscan sun!" followed by thinly veiled envy at my good fortune. Meanwhile I think to myself "if you only knew of the Italian bureaucracy, the endless job search that never comes to fruition, how much I miss my family and friends in the US, my deadly spiral into alcoholism, coming to on my front porch mid-day for the whole world to see covered in vomit after passing out, the failed business ventures, the weekly trips to 2 different mental health specialists....."

Maybe your former crush has it all together on tv, but there is a lot more behind the scenes and comparing ourselves to others is a useless pursuit that ends up leaving everyone feeling like they have missed out on some special secret to the universe.

I have a friend, more like a father-figure, who has worked his tail up the food chain in the music industry. I once was lamenting to him about something, my jealously on full display. He brought up a very famous, beautiful and respected star who was super hot at the time. I would see her on tv breezing through interviews, gracing her way along red carpets, so put-together and at ease. Meanwhile I was losing cheap earrings in the back seat of cars after another trashy night of throwing away my self-esteem.
He told me how he and a team of many would show up at her house hours before an interview, load her drunk and/or passed out body into a car, take her to the event location, listening to her berate them and act out along the way, watch as she remained asleep/passed out through an intense hair and make up session, only slapping her face into reality minutes before it was time for her to come to and be "on" Then, and only then, the image that the masses love and respected came out glowing.
There is more that meets the eye behind these "successful" individuals. You only see what they put out there for you.

Carlotta

I m at work on my cell but i hope you will hang tight. It might be rough right now but u can always make a comeback as long as u stay sober. Since u like the races, do u think Seabiscuit would have made his comeback if he had been feeling sorry for himself and getting sloshed in his stable ?
Hang in there we are rooting for you. If you pick up you will really regret it tomorrow.

Seren

It's a shame you are feeling sorry for yourself that you were not at the Derby this weekend, thomas. I grew up in KY. My parents raced thoroughbreds. My sister currently works for a trainer. But romanticize the Derby? Hardly...

The Downs is a nice place to be, but not on Derby Day. The infield is the only place many folks can afford...which is fine if you like being packed cheek-to-jowl with drunk college kids and getting groped. The stands are extremely expensive and filled with people whose only goal in life is to see and be seen. And a mint julep, well, in my opinion it tastes like charcoal lighter fluid flavored with mint.

I am more interested in the actual horses and the races. So, I much prefer watching the Ky Oaks and the Ky Derby on TV in the comfort of my own home.

I hope you find yourself sober and in a better frame of mind today, thomas. You seem to be bound and determined to drink again. I hope that you don't, but no one here can make that decision but you.

Elodie

I'm sorry that you are feeling down, Jeff. Self-pity can gain a momentum that can be hard to dig your way out of.

Regardless of your mood, however, it is completely inappropriate to malign the reputation of an entire group of people from a particular profession/geographical area based on your interactions with some of those people. I'm really sorry to be judgmental, but it's wrong.

As alcoholics in recovery ourselves, I (and I'm sure I'm not the only one) see/hear/read stereotypes about alcoholics that I know are inaccurate, unfair, and only serve to point out the "other"-ness of a group of people. Since I don't like that feeling, I try to put extra effort into not making broad generalizations about people I've never met.

Anyway, I hope you feel better soon. The great thing about life is that every moment is another chance for you to turn things around.

Dee74

If I could I'd thank your post twice Elodie - thank you

D

FreeOwl

I saw photos today on Facebook. All kinds of folks my age. Former classmates and colleagues. Kentucky Derby parties. Swollen, overweight faces. Drinks in hand. Talk of betting. Pictures of sloppy people hanging off one another pulling goofy faces. Spending money and killing time and getting drunk indoors, watching horses run around a track on TV.

Yesterday was one of the most gorgeous days of the year. The sunrise was incredible. I hiked with my Lady in the woods to a mountain to see it. Later a three hour trail run with a good friend. This morning I woke happy and healthy and went to see another beautiful sunrise. I'm not fat or swollen or red faced. I didn't waste money or time or sit indoors falling all over people, pulling stupid faces and waiting to die.

Those folks can have the booze, the derby, the silly hats and the 'super fun' times doing the same old thing and wasting money and their lives.

Nope, this is wyayyyyyyy better.

Hawkeye13

Hi Jeff;

Good morning and I hope things are feeling a bit better today.
I'm very sorry you are having such a tough time and that I called the Derby "stupid".
I know it's a big deal to many, but like Seren I lived the horsey life for many years
and there is quite a bit of posturing, negativity, and harm that goes on behind the scenes
in horse racing, not least of which to the horses themselves, so I'm not a fan.
(Your friend the jockey sounds amazing however--I looked her up and honestly, when
I was young I really wanted to be the first professional female jockey but grew
too tall--I am so glad to see a role model like her in the sport)

Anyway, I had / have an incredibly dysfunctional small family myself,
and I know it can take you down in the dumps faster than just about anything.

I drank so many times at, with, because of, due to, through, in spite of my alcoholic mother
that my drinking went from abuse to full-blown alcoholism during my care-giving years with her.

(I mean seriously, name any preposition and I can very likely link it to to the object of preposition "my mother" in a toxic sentence)

In hindsight, I know that my drinking was like throwing gas on our family fire
but I was using myself as the fuel and achieving nothing but suffering for my trouble.

I was literally consuming myself trying to please, fit in, and "help" them.

Getting a short round of cognitive therapy to identify and deal with triggers
really helped me spot my damaging patterned responses, and my AV trying
to use that data to trick me.

I also have some depressive biology inherited from both parents as whipped cream
on my crappy personal sundae, but have chosen not to to use prescription drugs to manage this.

So there are days where nothing feels good and I'm one flat emotional mess.
Slowly, my alternative management seems to be kicking in and these bad times
are farther between and of less intensity.
You've read many of my posts, but in case it is helpful to you someone else,
in a nutshell I did the following:
Got sober and stayed that way (besides my few "moderation relapses" which are now behind me for good)

Cut / emotionally detached from toxic people in my life, especially family.

As mentioned above, a limited number of therapy sessions helped me process and release
some of the mountains of crap I internalized growing up.
I now continue this on my own with other methods like mediation, yoga, journaling, and time in Nature.

I take care of my body and my mind by exercising both with new challenges.
I work hard but increasingly smart, and look for creative outlets that are fun,
and not tied to money or status.

I spend time just doing nothing and not feeling bad about it.
I always thought I should be "doing something"
I am making friends with myself instead of judging and comparing
how I stand in relation to others, and thinking about my image.
I try to reach out and be kind to all who cross my path.

I'm certainly still a work in progress, but the payoff has been an increasing ability to spot my AV
a mile away, being more peaceful overall, and not having much stress or difficulty staying quit this time.

I wish all of the above benefits and more for you Jeff

tomsteve

and whatnis it you thought we were?
i hope it wasnt a family that would cosign the self pity and say its ok to drink.

im out of work,too. in fact, after being diagnosed stage 3 metastatic melanoma 13 months into recovery i had to go on disability. 5 surgeries, 2 rounds of chemo, and a clinical trial have made it so i cant work. too many risks.
yup, lots of missed oppertunities. i was getting my life straight, gettting my financial situation straightened up.
now im over 50k in medical debt(insurance doesnt cover everything).
and disability doesnt pay much.

but i have choices!!!!!
the greatest is choosing to change my perceptions. theres a LOT of people that would gladly live in my shoes.
today i make the best of my life. i dont have to keep up with the jones'-i am the jonses'.
because i changed my perception.

i once was sad because i had no shoes
until i saw a man who had no feet.

Aellyce

Hi Jeff,

I just want to share a thought that occurred to me reading this thread and remembering your many other posts. It might be wrong, but I was thinking that the way you blurt out at cultural/regional differences and perceived characteristics associated with these resembles a bit the way you often bring up things that you seem to struggle with in your family and larger social environment. As though people and some components of the environment have conducted some sort of conspiracy against you and this is what makes you question the value in sustained sobriety and other forms of stable change. You often seem to see obstacles and not constructive forces around you. What I am thinking: the targets are different, but what I tend to see in your posts is that the negative influences are often externalized.

Your comments Midwest vs New York reminded me of something I did in the past. I have been a NYC resident now for a few years and before that, I lived in the Midwest for a couple years. That was the time in my life where my alcoholism took a steep progression and I would constantly blame it on the environment, where I felt I did not fit at all and I perceived it as incompatible with me. I must say that I do believe in cultural and regional differences in people's attitude (I lived in enough different places to experience a variety) but I had to arrive to the conclusion that most of the anger and anxiety projected into my environment back then was largely an excuse for me to sink more and more deeply into my alcoholism and isolate myself from any constructive influence. I eventually moved out of that environment into where I live now and I do believe it was one of my best choices for me and a better/more natural fit, but the more I feel secure in my current place and context, the more clearly I see how those past resentments were mostly projections and my resistance to do anything about it for a while, including refusing any kind of help. It took me the experience of being in what I thought was my ideal environment for a while (if this is not a good fit, then what else could be?) to accept that it's not going to change my problems at all without additional measures to directly address my drinking and other issues, and get help (more than online).

You know what? It's actually fun having all these treatments. I sometimes rebel against certain components of it and criticize it, but in the larger picture, I think every form of treatment I have tried in the past ~2.5 years has been immensely helpful and interesting experience. They also help me stay connected with the world and other people in constructive ways -- something that I tend to have a problem with by default. An absolutely key element though is letting go of old problematic tendencies and behaviors, even many things that I seemingly liked a lot. I find it important to discover the myriad of internal connections between some of those old choices and my addictions and other problem areas. It does take some experience to discriminate between constructive criticism and self absorbed judgment, but I think it's the only way to learn how to use external help to my advantage. It also always involves compromises, something else I used to struggle with a lot.

I still hold my previous suggestions to you about getting local help and support -- not from friends and from people with whom you are used to engaging in certain activities, but something new. There are so many forms of these one can try, I personally really enjoy exploring them.

entropy1964

How are you this morning Jeff?

thomas11

Good morning, the feedback you guys provide is absolutely invaluable. I can not thank you enough. And incredibly its free! Anyway, happy to report I woke up with a change of attitude and stopped feeling sorry for myself.

I get like that sometimes and the emotions hit me hard. I expect a lot from myself.

I can only imagine what the folks who took in Derby Day feel like (at least many of them). I'm sure they feel like death. I do not. Regarding the deterioration of my small family, I think its weighing on me more than I let on. Again, I want to thank everyone, I lean on you guys pretty hard because I really don't have anyone else to share my thoughts and feelings with (sadly). My wife is wonderful, but she is only one person and one perspective. I get all kinds of fresh thoughts from the people on this forum.

Hangover free Sunday's never get old.

dwtbd

I hope the better part of your thinking won out last night. If it did I hope too that you can appreciate that the few hours of the day or night spent drinking would have been a waste and would have produced some 'aftermath' to be gotten through in the form of a possible hangover , a feeling of defeat and other negatives I hope you awoke and look back and wonder why/how the emotions involved with wanting to drink ,even just that 'once', are so seemingly powerful and their pull has subsided. The longer you get from your last drink and the more times you emerge from the pull unscathed , the better it gets.
I had a bad derby day, ended up on the couch all night . Got in an argument , a silly argument, with my better half. I got pissed and acted out, laying on the juvenile cold shoulder routine, and truth be told not ready to let it pass yet.
It's stupid but I'm planning on letting her go to this evening's plans for Mday dinner alone and let her explain my absence . Point being I didn't even really have a thought about drinking or even more tot the point not even the urge to 'drink at it/her'. Not sharing this other than to say that I know it's because the time I've had since deciding to quit, the sober muscle that I've built up.
Before quitting I'd have had the same emotional estimate of the situation and watch out coz bourbon was going down and justifiably so yada yada. I'm just as pissed now as then but no bourbon, that option is off the table , Doesnt mean I am less emotional or any less juvenile in my thinking , lol, but having accepted the 'leap of faith' that in time I would/could respond to a situation like this without even really thinking about reaching for a drink is something I wouldn't have believed before the leap, I hope you can take that leap and continue to build that 'sober muscle'.

dwtbd

we cross posted, glad to see I would have won the bet

2ndhandrose

zlhzlh

Really glad things have worked out this way! Congratulations Jeff onwards and upwards x

thomas11

I want to reiterate my gratitude, many of you put a lot of thought and effort into your response and it does not go unnoticed.

thomas11

Lastly, for what its worth, I implemented the HALT method. I had a Reuben sandwich followed by Italian sausage and onions. It hit the spot.

Carlotta

I am so glad you did not pick up Jeff and that you are feeling better mentally.
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