Grendhar

Soberpotamus makes good sense. I was wrong when I said (on this thread or another thread not sure) that a discussion about the different programs would help a newcomer come to an informed decision.

It could potentially steer them away from a program that doesn't work for me .. but could save their life.

Thanks Soberpotamus and Dee .. I'm done with this topic.. no offense to you SoberinSyracuse, definitely was a valid question and I'm glad it was made because I've learned something here.

Anna

Dee, thank you for your brilliant post.

Anna

As Dee said, he and I work VERY hard to prevent any kind of bias. We both put a lot of time and effort into being fair. It's unfortunate you don't see things that way.

Dee74

When I first came here I thought there was a strong pro AA slant too.

I even had a few battles in the 12 step forum as some kind of self appointed freedom fighter for those of us not in AA.

I think I was looking for something to replace the passion I had for drinking.

Nearly 10 years on, I see no battle.

I was wrong.

We're all on the same side - recovery, freedom, growth.

I hope that a newcomer who reads your assertion that there is a 'strong pro AA stance' here takes the time out to read a few threads and makes their own assessment.

We welcome everyone here SiS. Full stop.

*drops mic*

D

Maffers

I feel the whole higher power thing is to redirect us from what was our higher power (alcohol/drug/addiction.) A higher power greater then ourselves to battle our addiction which is bigger then ourselves. I do feel that basing your whole AA experience based on one meeting or feeling or simply because someone else has a belief in a god and that the thought of religion is so repelling is rather an ignorant shallow thinking. Yes the AA program does work for a vast majority of people around the world. But to find fault based on a simple belief in which you don't share to simply lambaste the entire organization isn't really giving it much credit.

Dave42001

You dictator!! Ha!

Anna

Once again Dee, brilliant!

Andante

I don't see any inconsistency. Person A is sharing something positive about what they experienced as working for them to keep them sober, which might be helpful to another person's recovery. Person B has an axe to grind and is foisting blame on another person for their relapse under the self-serving and disingenuous guise of "sharing experience." This is inherently dishonest and serves no one's recovery.

If one were to say "My sponsor's way of relating to me didn't help me to stay sober. In fact, I experienced it as stressful and abusive and I was unable to cope" -- that would be sharing experience (if perhaps unhelpful to others trying to get sober). Throwing around buzzphrases such as "psychological abuse" and blaming the sponsor for one's relapse is gratuitous. See the distinction?

Andante

Ooo, Dee beat me to it (as usual) -- I was also going to say something about how time in recovery and time around SR has helped me to see the unity of purpose in all recovery methods. They differ only in the details. The "higher power" issue need be a limiting factor only if a closed-minded approach lets it.

Bunny211

I'm very pro AA, specifically big book step study. I do make a concerted effort to state "In my experience working the 12 steps and attending big book step study sessions has been the solution." What others choose to utilize as tools is their business. I do not believe there is a right way or a wrong way to go about recovery.

Fly N Buy

When I first started on SR like others I suppose I was very gung ho for the program I attend. As our friend Dee mentioned we are passionate about our experience and what works for us.

It is interesting because my perception of SR was that is seemed very anti AA. At times it was frustrating to me. Months went by, then a year and now almost two. My perceptions have changed - not SR or the people who post - but me.

Today I take what I need both in the rooms and SR - I hit ignore at times when I might be tempted to respond in a manner that was the old fly. Amazingly, I have even apologized publicly, more than once. I keep trying to not only say but display love and tolerance towards others. I am progressing.......

I hope all who seek here and elsewhere find what they need to get another day sober. This is a good sandbox to play in, especially when I play with my own toys and don't worry too much about others playthings.

Thumpalumpacus

I'm too new to recovery to have an informed opinion on the comparative value of the various methods, but even if I did have that breadth of experience, I would only have that discussion in PMs and even then only I my opinion was solicited.

I wouldn't dream of undercutting someone else's recovery tools by invalidating them with my own experience, personal as that is.

Fluffer

Funny that you think the site is pro-AA. I'm on the secular side of things and I think there is probably more anti-AA sentiment expressed on SR than pro-AA. It's a fine line to tread between letting people talk about their experience but stopping it before it devolves into bashing. Puts the mods in an unenviable position, really. So I prefer to stress our common goals and wisdom and play down any negative opinions I may have about other people's methods. Even as a non-AA guy I can acknowledge that AA has accumulated a ton of wisdom on achieving recovery and can be the most effective method for some of the most difficult cases of addiction.

MIRecovery

I filter all posts and responses through the filter of how long has the poster has been sober and what methods and tools do they attribute their sobriety/lack of sobriety to.

There are a lot of armchair quarterbacks who can't stay sober themselves but are full advice about what does and doesn't work.

I'm an AAer but there are a lot of people here with long term sobriety that arent. I have more than enough AA people in my real life and it is only on SR that I can find people whose path to sobriety is different than mine but no less valid

least

I find it most useful to share what worked for me. And I kind of like the philosophy of "take what you need and leave the rest".

Thumpalumpacus

This, very much this.

tursiops999

I just wanted to share one solution I found to this dilemma about posting "what didn't work" for me.

From time to time, I have found a need for help from others to clarify what was really essential in my own recovery, and what I could leave aside. I absolutely didn't want to bash any programs or techniques, but I was experiencing negative results for myself from practicing certain tools. I needed to process this somewhere... so I could figure out how to make changes to my plan, but also make sure I wasn't throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I also needed to process some of the emotional fallout I was experiencing.

The solution I found was the PM feature on SR. I sought input and feedback from various members whose viewpoint I respect, who use a variety of methods. Yes, it takes a little longer than just posting my stuff out in the open, but I got very valuable feedback where we could "speak" privately without worrying about misleading anyone or offending anyone.

EndGameNYC

Life didn't "work" for me. That's why I drank.

When you can afford to eat steak and lobster every day, the meaning of life is irrelevant. When you're teetering on the edge of the abyss, it doesn't matter how you save yourself.

I rarely get involved in discussions about the relative value of (superficially) competing treatment methods. I'm not even certain what it is that "worked" for me, but I do know that it didn't come from without.

If something that I'm doing puts me at risk, I tend to stop doing it. It's sometimes only a single experience of something that hurts me for me to know I shouldn't go back, something I rarely practiced while drinking. But it sometimes takes time and experience to decide on what is helpful and what is not. Treatment of any kind is a delivery system designed to get us where we need to be, and we can't expect other people to do all the work. I didn't, and probably couldn't, know what would and wouldn't be helpful for me when I first got sober, and for some time afterwards.

I don't find it useful to invoke an AV for me to stay sober, but I know many people who do, and I get it. For me, the value of most things in life resides in what we're willing to do to get it, and not in the achievement itself. What I appreciate and often respect about people here on SR (and no one needs my respect or permission -- or anyone else's -- to do anything they do) is the struggle, not the method.

Science, information, methodology...(to paraphrase) they paint no pictures, sing no songs, and write no poems.

GardenGal

Ok, as a newbie here to this site [sober day 4, yay!], I'd like to post again on this thread and state that I agree with Dee and the other well-informed longer-timers that it's important to understand that we all have to find our own path, and the more we know, the better we can find our individual tools needed for sobriety.

Personally, I'm going to try a few options. Well, I already have, but after reading here, I'm going to try a couple more. What have I got to lose in trying? Thank you, SR, glad I found you on that Goo site that I lived fine without for so long, but now don't know what I'd do without!

I hope I don't break too many forum rules! I've been known to be quite combative. I'm working on that!! Heck, I might even try yoga & meditation. Hummmmm

RallyAly

As a newcomer, there does seem to be a few flavors of responses to people saying AA is not for them from people who value AA in their experience: a) a move on to other possible tools in the toolbox; b) mention of alternatives; c) explanation of non-AA specific aspects of the AA experience that helped that person (e.g., face to face bonding, confiding in a person, regular accountability, etc.); and d) pressing the issue. I think D is the issue here and it's not something I've seen come up when other in person programs are mentioned.

To use a sort of silly but I think useful analogy for this D phenomenon, sometimes it comes off like this:

OP: Well I am thirsty and I know I need to re-hydrate but I'm not sure what to drink. I know I don't like tea though (I don't like the taste, or it upsets my stomach, or I spilled hot tea on my arm as a kid and got bad burns, or whatever other reason).

Tea Lover 1: Tea is my favorite! What kind of tea did you try? I didn't really like breakfast tea but then I tried Earl Grey.

Tea Lover 2: Tea saved my life. If you've only had tea a few times, you aren't really giving it a chance.

Tea Lover 3: If teacups aren't for you you don't have to drink it in a tea cup. Most people use teacups but there are several I know who use canteens. We even have a couple people who like their tea iced.

Tea Lover 4: It sounds like you went to a bad tea party. Try several others before you decide you don't like tea. I had to try a few before I found a tea party I really like.

Tea Lover 5: Tea is really great. It's probably not like you think. It didn't taste like what I imagined.

OP thinks... why aren't we talking about other beverages, I told you I don't like tea? Tea works for you - great, keep drinking it. I get that lots of people like tea.

I think the A-C options are more helpful and constructive - and they are the majority of responses... "here's a thread on all types of beverages - take a gander and see what looks like something you'd like" "How about a coke?" "What I like about tea is the warmth - maybe try cocoa?"

And on the other side of the coin the critiques of AA sometimes have more edge to them, so I'm not surprised it's seen as attack that needs response. And I haven't seen that happen with other groups' mentions. In thinking back over my posts and PMs I can definitely remember a PM where I was "pushing tea" (not AA) - a good reminder to myself.