Why Is It Not Okay...
Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 507
Hi Stevie,
Just a minor point about your posts. You keep referring to addictive voice as another excuse people use to drink. The term Addictive Voice is used in AVRT, and is meant to refer to all those excuses your brain makes (I'm not a neuroscientist so can't tell you which specific part it comes from, but essentially the more primitive part of the brain), and AVRT's aim is to help people recognise when they're making excuses, because the decision to pick up a drink is their own, their Addictive Voice does not have that power to physically pour a drink.
Some people find it helpful to visualise that Addictive Voice as a beast, or a witch, or anything else that helps them realise when they're making excuses, and that they don't have to listen to those excuses even though the actual voice they're hearing those thoughts expressed in is their own.
I believe this fits with the point you're making, but I'm just a bit worried your posts might come off as dismissing the AVRT approach as well, which I found very helpful for me when I quit 9 months ago.
On a separate point, I would tend to agree with Dee that while tough love obviously worked for you, and I get that what you're doing is coming from a place of wanting to help, it doesn't work on everyone, can actually be very harmful for some more vulnerable people, and I would suggest is particularly risky in a written form like here where it's very, very hard to gauge the tone that the words are coming from, or that they're being received in the way intended.
Just a minor point about your posts. You keep referring to addictive voice as another excuse people use to drink. The term Addictive Voice is used in AVRT, and is meant to refer to all those excuses your brain makes (I'm not a neuroscientist so can't tell you which specific part it comes from, but essentially the more primitive part of the brain), and AVRT's aim is to help people recognise when they're making excuses, because the decision to pick up a drink is their own, their Addictive Voice does not have that power to physically pour a drink.
Some people find it helpful to visualise that Addictive Voice as a beast, or a witch, or anything else that helps them realise when they're making excuses, and that they don't have to listen to those excuses even though the actual voice they're hearing those thoughts expressed in is their own.
I believe this fits with the point you're making, but I'm just a bit worried your posts might come off as dismissing the AVRT approach as well, which I found very helpful for me when I quit 9 months ago.
On a separate point, I would tend to agree with Dee that while tough love obviously worked for you, and I get that what you're doing is coming from a place of wanting to help, it doesn't work on everyone, can actually be very harmful for some more vulnerable people, and I would suggest is particularly risky in a written form like here where it's very, very hard to gauge the tone that the words are coming from, or that they're being received in the way intended.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Hi Open Tuning .
No I certainly do not dismiss anything about AVRT or any other agency outside of AA I say whatever works then go for it by all means , no one can be 100% accurate in their manner of posting on an open forum , if one person gets hope out of anything I say or propose then that is worthwhile , bars and nightclubs can be very harsh as are some of the people who inhabit them, and people come through these experiences and survive , yet some in the minority can be very sensitive and easily hurt , that's a fact , so do we just look out for ourselves and say I am alright Jack ? take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .
if a man hears a different drummer ? let him march to the drum he hears .
No I certainly do not dismiss anything about AVRT or any other agency outside of AA I say whatever works then go for it by all means , no one can be 100% accurate in their manner of posting on an open forum , if one person gets hope out of anything I say or propose then that is worthwhile , bars and nightclubs can be very harsh as are some of the people who inhabit them, and people come through these experiences and survive , yet some in the minority can be very sensitive and easily hurt , that's a fact , so do we just look out for ourselves and say I am alright Jack ? take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .
if a man hears a different drummer ? let him march to the drum he hears .
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,513
Stevie, what we do in the Newcomers Forum is follow our Mandate:
The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential.
Telling someone to 'grow up and get on with it' is not respectful. So, while some members offer a more gentle response, and others are more to the point, we only allow respectful comments. This may be the first experience a poster has had with our boards and we do need to remember that the newbie could be vulnerable and scared.
The Newcomers Forum is a safe and welcoming place for newcomers. Respect is essential.
Telling someone to 'grow up and get on with it' is not respectful. So, while some members offer a more gentle response, and others are more to the point, we only allow respectful comments. This may be the first experience a poster has had with our boards and we do need to remember that the newbie could be vulnerable and scared.
Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: glasgow scotland
Posts: 1,004
Okay Anna I will respectfully keep it simple and cease posting in this forum as I would find it somewhat difficult to restrain my natural instinct in reaching out, no offense taken .
Regards Stevie .
Regards Stevie .
Administrator
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Dancing in the Light
Posts: 61,513
Reaching out is always welcomed and appreciated. It's what we do here.
In this Forum, we always place the care of the Newcomers above all else. Dee and I want each and every newbie to have a positive experience when they begin reading this forum.
In this Forum, we always place the care of the Newcomers above all else. Dee and I want each and every newbie to have a positive experience when they begin reading this forum.
A Day at a Time
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Grand Rapids MI
Posts: 6,435
Originally Posted by stevieg46 
Hi Fatbat , I understand what you are saying , to me for an alcoholic to fall back into old habits is a matter of life and death alcohol kills people causes destruction growing up and toughening up in relation to sobriety are essential if one wants to remain sober and grow in strength into peace of mind whilst being sober , we all have adversity in life some harder than others , so in my way of thinking we need to ensure and be able to have a built in defence of not lifting a drink no matter what no matter the circumstance ,we need to grow up emotionally (feelings ) and toughen up inner strength in order to go though life alcoholic or not , I am not a cold or harsh person I care very much about sobriety , I care for other people trying to stay or get sober , reality must be faced , fact is stressors , triggers , addictive voices , urges , if one dwells on them long enough the alcoholic will drink again and use those occurrences as an excuse for doing so , sometimes we don't want to hear things but soft soaping and mollycoddling and petted lips are not helpful , in fact they have the opposite effect , I remember folks saying'' the quicker you grow up the better '' take care.
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .
Regards Stevie recovered 12 03 2006 .
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
I have to admit I'm irked by this thread now.
If I was a newcomer and I checked on this thread first I might get the idea that this is an AA centric forum...or an anti AA one.
I don't believe either perception is true. We aim to be open to each and every method of recovery.
I might also get the idea that the forum moderation here is excessive, biased and punitive.
That, hand on heart, is not true either.
There's so many other threads, so many other people needing help - and yet we insist on resurrecting this one from page 3 of the forum
Is there really a viewpoint that hasn't been presented or canvassed yet?
D
If I was a newcomer and I checked on this thread first I might get the idea that this is an AA centric forum...or an anti AA one.
I don't believe either perception is true. We aim to be open to each and every method of recovery.
I might also get the idea that the forum moderation here is excessive, biased and punitive.
That, hand on heart, is not true either.
There's so many other threads, so many other people needing help - and yet we insist on resurrecting this one from page 3 of the forum
Is there really a viewpoint that hasn't been presented or canvassed yet?
D
Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Dallas Texas
Posts: 579
This thread should probably be moved. It's covering things not germane to someone new in recovery. When I quit drinking around 80 days ago I was very fragile and easy to took to any suggestion. If someone told me to my face I was weak or emotional immature I might have reacted poorly. I laugh and smile a lot but may have a touch of PTSD from being rocketed hundreds of times- its exciting and thus enjoyable. I've smiled and laughed at far worse but I digress. My point is some people need a little hand holding/mollycoddling and it's really hard to guess which ones. You don't know their history.
Member
Join Date: May 2015
Location: USA
Posts: 740
Originally Posted by Anna
... Dee and I want each and every newbie to have a positive experience when they begin reading this forum.
Delfin
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Originally Posted by GardenGal
Close the thread? You have the power. 
We moderate by a set of rules - there's no rule that says close threads when D gets irked, lol.
D
Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Colorado
Posts: 3,474
.
'Dee and I want each and every newbie to have a positive experience when they begin reading this forum'.
Ok. Referencing Anna's Statement above, how about:
'This Thread is now at variance with published Forum Objectives, and has been closed'.
Internet Bandwidth will be conserved, and a dead Horse could now be respectfully interred.
.
'Dee and I want each and every newbie to have a positive experience when they begin reading this forum'.
Ok. Referencing Anna's Statement above, how about:
'This Thread is now at variance with published Forum Objectives, and has been closed'.
Internet Bandwidth will be conserved, and a dead Horse could now be respectfully interred.
.
Behold the power of NO
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: WA
Posts: 7,764
This thread should probably be moved. It's covering things not germane to someone new in recovery.
Think about how confusing this thread might be to someone who is new and badly hungover. That person might think that SR is like that "unnamed" website where all people do is argue and where (in my opinion) 80% of the blog comments are made by people who are either in their cups or need anger management.
I really don't feel newcomers should be a hang out place for the debate team.
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,445
Thanks for the input guys but we simply can't moderate by popular opinion.
That's why we have the rules, to be as fair as we possibly can..
The threads specifically about the Newcomers forum...no rules have been broken so far... so it stays put.
Dee
Moderator
SR
That's why we have the rules, to be as fair as we possibly can..
The threads specifically about the Newcomers forum...no rules have been broken so far... so it stays put.
Dee
Moderator
SR
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