Is sugar a drug
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 303
This is an interesting post, i was just thinking about it tonight. I have been having some intense opiate cravings and i noticed i will eat a lot of "junk" food and the cravings seem to go away afterwards. IME in the short term eating a little bit of cheat foods to get over initial cravings helps get the mind off using. This may only work with opiates though i'm not sure about alcohol. Over the long term though i think eating healthy is extremely important.
Anyway it seems like a lot of you guys are cutting out carbs in general, do you see problems with eating whole grains, brown rice, etc? I've never noticed sugar withdrawal, but i may just not be aware of whats going on. Milk, fruit, certain veggies, natural peanut butter, and a lot of other things have sugar in them. Any thoughts on these? I mean honey is pure sugar and is supposed to be good for us in reasonable amounts.
Anyway it seems like a lot of you guys are cutting out carbs in general, do you see problems with eating whole grains, brown rice, etc? I've never noticed sugar withdrawal, but i may just not be aware of whats going on. Milk, fruit, certain veggies, natural peanut butter, and a lot of other things have sugar in them. Any thoughts on these? I mean honey is pure sugar and is supposed to be good for us in reasonable amounts.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South East England
Posts: 8,009
I can SO relate to this. Great post thank you. Chocolate was my gateway drug too...I had the makings of an alcoholic when I used to steal and store sweet food as a kid.
I'm just getting to grips with this now, and feel better already.
I'm just getting to grips with this now, and feel better already.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Sonoran Desert & Southeast Asia
Posts: 6,561
I practically live on whole grains like oatmeal and cracked wheat cereals, brown rice, a little multigrain bread, etc. Along with cabbage salads, veggies and a little meat. DefinItely not low carb here, lol. I also cut out a lot of refined carbs and most dairy when I moved here to the Philippines and lost 12 lbs in the first 9 months. Still sneak the occasional treat though. Hard to break that habit.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 303
i have a lot of those same things 95% of the time with the exception of my weekly pizza to keep me sane during the boring and lonely/lazy weekends and flour tortillas with my chipotle burritos.
You people that cut out sugar i'm curious of your stances on things like peanut butter, honey, milk, fruit, etc? Do you feel better or worse without them?
You people that cut out sugar i'm curious of your stances on things like peanut butter, honey, milk, fruit, etc? Do you feel better or worse without them?
Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,292
[QUOTE=jimt91;5566208]
You people that cut out sugar i'm curious of your stances on things like peanut butter, honey, milk, fruit, etc? Do you feel better or worse without them?[/QUOTE
Peanut butter: don't eat but do eat lots of real nuts, especially almonds and walnuts.
Honey: used to love it but haven't had any in years.
Milk: my mood hated food/drink. Never ever taken it but have great bone density and strong teeth
Fruit: I used to gorge on this thinking it was all healthy but fruit is basically sugar plus fibre. I eat it daily but have cut way back to one or two pieces a day.
My lunch diet is basically fish alternating between salmon, sardines, mackerel), vegetables alternating between broccoli, spinach, asparagus, been sprouts. I eat a lot of onion omelettes with nothing other than the eggs and onions added. I have seasonal fruit (recently grapes and pears). Then I have nuts.
I eat whatever my wife makes at night. Maybe chicken or beef once a week but usually fish, often sashimi. I don't eat breakfast as I workout early but drink some coffee and take some BCAA. I never add any condiments other than soy sauce and vinegar.
That is my dull-ish diet. I try to see food as fuel. I intend to have some cake, pizza or whatever every so often at birthdays etc.
When I'm sober I'm disciplined enough to follow this. When I drink forget about it.
You people that cut out sugar i'm curious of your stances on things like peanut butter, honey, milk, fruit, etc? Do you feel better or worse without them?[/QUOTE
Peanut butter: don't eat but do eat lots of real nuts, especially almonds and walnuts.
Honey: used to love it but haven't had any in years.
Milk: my mood hated food/drink. Never ever taken it but have great bone density and strong teeth
Fruit: I used to gorge on this thinking it was all healthy but fruit is basically sugar plus fibre. I eat it daily but have cut way back to one or two pieces a day.
My lunch diet is basically fish alternating between salmon, sardines, mackerel), vegetables alternating between broccoli, spinach, asparagus, been sprouts. I eat a lot of onion omelettes with nothing other than the eggs and onions added. I have seasonal fruit (recently grapes and pears). Then I have nuts.
I eat whatever my wife makes at night. Maybe chicken or beef once a week but usually fish, often sashimi. I don't eat breakfast as I workout early but drink some coffee and take some BCAA. I never add any condiments other than soy sauce and vinegar.
That is my dull-ish diet. I try to see food as fuel. I intend to have some cake, pizza or whatever every so often at birthdays etc.
When I'm sober I'm disciplined enough to follow this. When I drink forget about it.
lillyknitting
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Loughton, Essex, England
Posts: 638
Originally Posted by Della1968 
I totally have to stay away from sugar....most carbs in general. I get the same feeling as being hungover. I do have to say at first hot fudge and fluff got me through a lot of cravings.
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Join Date: Dec 2012
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Another one here whose first addiction was to sugar as a child. It's funny I can remember the first time I managed to get hold of quite a few chocolate bars, I hid away,ate them all felt sick really quickly but couldn't stop, I remember feeling really guilty and that I shouldn't be doing this but that I couldn't stop even at that age. That started off years of bingeing on chocolate/junk food. The only thing that greatly reduced that was when I started smoking. Since I've stopped smoking it has started back up again. I've really found that if I totally stay away from sugary foods after a few days or a week I'm absolutely fine but as soon as I have any it sets off a total craving for more, exactly the same with alcohol. I do a million times better without either in my life because if I eat too much, I put on weight which makes me feel bad about myself physically and I'm more likely to drink. Need to get back on a sugar detox asap, it really really has worked for me in the past and I've noticed that being sugar free drastically reduces my cravings for alcohol too.
Peace X
Peace X
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
Yeah, it's true that alcohol is not processed as sugar. But it's a similar system. Here's what I've worked out, anyone correct me if I've got parts of it wrong:
Alcohol largely replaces sugar while we're drinking. Because it's toxic, our body prioritizes it. So first it breaks it down into acetaldehyde, which is extremely harmful, and then it's all hands on deck to transform it into acetone, which can be burned as energy.
One of the enzymes needed to create acetone is the same one that's needed to process glucose. So it gets bumped from glucose duty to alcohol duty, our blood sugar drops and our body runs off of acetone instead of either sugar or more complex energy sources.
So when the acetone is gone, which for most alcoholics is their primary energy source, we crave glucose. It's fast energy, it's processed very similarly to alcohol. Also, we've damaged our GI tract very badly, including throwing our enzyme balance way off, so for a long time we aren't going to absorb the full nutrients from what we eat. So sugar makes it temporarily feel like all its needs are being met.
Alcohol largely replaces sugar while we're drinking. Because it's toxic, our body prioritizes it. So first it breaks it down into acetaldehyde, which is extremely harmful, and then it's all hands on deck to transform it into acetone, which can be burned as energy.
One of the enzymes needed to create acetone is the same one that's needed to process glucose. So it gets bumped from glucose duty to alcohol duty, our blood sugar drops and our body runs off of acetone instead of either sugar or more complex energy sources.
So when the acetone is gone, which for most alcoholics is their primary energy source, we crave glucose. It's fast energy, it's processed very similarly to alcohol. Also, we've damaged our GI tract very badly, including throwing our enzyme balance way off, so for a long time we aren't going to absorb the full nutrients from what we eat. So sugar makes it temporarily feel like all its needs are being met.
now's the time
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 2,181
Anyway whatever the science is, I've realized that like bimini says, I will eat the ENTIRE package of whatever sweet thing is in front of me, even if I feel terrible afterwards (and I often do). Ice cream was my drug this week and when I realized I was even eating after the point of enjoyment I decided it was too creepily similar to drinking for me. I really don't like feeling out of control like that again.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 8,637
My theory is that sugar is the original gateway drug.
I observe the impact sugar has on my children; it makes them bonkers. They crave it. They behave differently on it. They seek it. They'll do anything for it.....
In my own history, I can recall eating candy, hording candy, seeking after candy..... before I discovered drugs and alcohol - sugar was a driver of similarly addictive behaviors.
As an adult I've learned that sugar has many similar effects on the brain as drugs and alcohol do in terms of pleasure and reward. It is a stimulant and a mood-enhancer. And in its wake, a similar depressive impact.
In a society that depends on manipulating the moods and behaviors of the consumer. In a society so crucially dependent upon addictive desires.... it makes total sense that we should begin the addictive cycle at an early age.
Sugar - even today - can have its hold on me if I let it. Perhaps more subtle and seemingly less-damaging than drugs or alcohol. Still, when I look at my own children and my own history - it's hard not to see sugar as opening the doorway to addiction, beckoning us "COME IN!!! WE WILL MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD!!!". And from that initial 'reward' comes the pattern of established 'payoff' that gets the ball rolling for the really heavy stuff.
I observe the impact sugar has on my children; it makes them bonkers. They crave it. They behave differently on it. They seek it. They'll do anything for it.....
In my own history, I can recall eating candy, hording candy, seeking after candy..... before I discovered drugs and alcohol - sugar was a driver of similarly addictive behaviors.
As an adult I've learned that sugar has many similar effects on the brain as drugs and alcohol do in terms of pleasure and reward. It is a stimulant and a mood-enhancer. And in its wake, a similar depressive impact.
In a society that depends on manipulating the moods and behaviors of the consumer. In a society so crucially dependent upon addictive desires.... it makes total sense that we should begin the addictive cycle at an early age.
Sugar - even today - can have its hold on me if I let it. Perhaps more subtle and seemingly less-damaging than drugs or alcohol. Still, when I look at my own children and my own history - it's hard not to see sugar as opening the doorway to addiction, beckoning us "COME IN!!! WE WILL MAKE YOU FEEL GOOD!!!". And from that initial 'reward' comes the pattern of established 'payoff' that gets the ball rolling for the really heavy stuff.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 303
I think sugar is only a problem when overdone, a moderate amount has it's place in diets IMO. Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, fruit, and many other random things have sugar, but are great paired with a good exercise routine. Things like cookies, pop, and cake have crazy amounts of sugar that our bodies don't know how to handle.
One thing that i'm on the fence about is things like white rice, dough, etc. What makes one carb better than the other, considering they debunked the whole "eat 6 meals a day".
One thing that i'm on the fence about is things like white rice, dough, etc. What makes one carb better than the other, considering they debunked the whole "eat 6 meals a day".
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Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 25,373
Originally Posted by jimt91
I think sugar is only a problem when overdone, a moderate amount has it's place in diets IMO. Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, fruit, and many other random things have sugar, but are great paired with a good exercise routine. Things like cookies, pop, and cake have crazy amounts of sugar that our bodies don't know how to handle.
One thing that i'm on the fence about is things like white rice, dough, etc. What makes one carb better than the other, considering they debunked the whole "eat 6 meals a day".
One thing that i'm on the fence about is things like white rice, dough, etc. What makes one carb better than the other, considering they debunked the whole "eat 6 meals a day".
Sure, you have to have carbs. I can eat one serving of rice if I make one serving of rice, same with pasta. Anything I can grab and eat with no forethought or purposeful preparation is a problem though. I completely agree that it is partly psychological, and that mindfulness is a good tool for this - but I'm not able to successfully control it on a consistent basis once I start eating it - yet. The taste, the brain connection, biology - whatever it is.
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 303
Oh i will do the same with things that don't take preparation, I will wake up at night and eat shredded cheese out of the bag lol. I think that's less about sugar though and more about convenient eating for whatever reason. I know i cant sleep well until i have had something filling to eat. I have always eaten out of boredom and whatever other excuse. What works for me is to just exercise a lot and only have nutritional food laying around.
aka Nesty
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Northern Vt.
Posts: 1,554
All I know is sense I started on low carb eating , which I stay between 25 & 50 g. a day . I found that I have more energy & feel better then I have in Years . Before if I had a whole wheat bagel w/ cream cheese for breakfast . No more then 2- 3 hours later I was hungry . Always felt drained after lunch ( sandwich w/ chips) & needed a nap !! I haven't needed a nap in months , unless I didn't get all my needed sleep . Yea !!!!
As for honey , being better & healthier it depends on if it's natural . But I read your body can't tell the difference - a carb is sugar so your body will use it as such . Table sugar had 5 g. carbs in 1 tsp so does honey . Peanuts & cashews are in the legume family , so I don't eat those or dried beans . Those would use up what carbs I would have daily - quickly. I eat lots of low carb vegies , minimal protein & good fats .
I follow about the same as you " Midton" I can't do a lot of dairy anyways . Some people I know thinks it's a boring way to eat , but there's endless recipes & a whole world of spices .
I still have an occasional piece of 80 % or higher cacao chocolate
As for honey , being better & healthier it depends on if it's natural . But I read your body can't tell the difference - a carb is sugar so your body will use it as such . Table sugar had 5 g. carbs in 1 tsp so does honey . Peanuts & cashews are in the legume family , so I don't eat those or dried beans . Those would use up what carbs I would have daily - quickly. I eat lots of low carb vegies , minimal protein & good fats .
I follow about the same as you " Midton" I can't do a lot of dairy anyways . Some people I know thinks it's a boring way to eat , but there's endless recipes & a whole world of spices .
I still have an occasional piece of 80 % or higher cacao chocolate
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Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 303
Why the minimal protein? I think the types of carbs have to do with energy levels as well. Sure your body uses them the same, but you will have longer drawn out energy from say oats than a slice of white bread. I did a low carb to quickly cut some weight and i liked it, but i've heard longterm ketosis is bad for the body?
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Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 56
Funny you all have mentioned sugar cravings, for some reason my Doctor warned me about eating sugar during my early sobriety (I am on day 14), but I just thought she was saying that because she wanted me to be healthy in general. There may be something to the process that fantail described because it does seem that I am eating alot more sweets.
But IMHO, I think that finding something in the short term to take our mind off of our drug of choice, is a good thing as long as it isn't another drug of choice. I am finding that alot of my early success at sobriety is due to me occupying my mind with different things. I have read on different posts here about others doing the same thing.
I would suggest that you could give yourself a break in the short term with the sweets. Your not going to get a driving under the influence of sugar arrest or anything.
Just a thought. I also want to do some more research about what chronic alcohol abuse does to your enzymes and GI tract. My doctor has me taking Thiamine (Vitamin B1) daily due to some problem or the other that arises from drinking copious amounts of Vodka.
But IMHO, I think that finding something in the short term to take our mind off of our drug of choice, is a good thing as long as it isn't another drug of choice. I am finding that alot of my early success at sobriety is due to me occupying my mind with different things. I have read on different posts here about others doing the same thing.
I would suggest that you could give yourself a break in the short term with the sweets. Your not going to get a driving under the influence of sugar arrest or anything.
Just a thought. I also want to do some more research about what chronic alcohol abuse does to your enzymes and GI tract. My doctor has me taking Thiamine (Vitamin B1) daily due to some problem or the other that arises from drinking copious amounts of Vodka.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
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Originally Posted by NestWasEmpty
Yes I agree 100% that sugar is a sort of drug . Roughly 10 months ago . I started low carb eating . I was a Carb & sugar aholic , well actually carbs are sugar in another form . I stopped everything cold turkey . Bread , pasta , white potatoes , sugars of any kind . Except xylitol ( sugar free) whole foods , nothing processed . For almost 2 weeks I felt horrible . I swear truthfully was as bad as alcohol with drawl - Unbelievable Who would of thought plain old sugar could make you feel a rush ( so to speak) .
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Originally Posted by Andante
My sense is that you may have this by the wrong end of the stick. Any substance or activity has the potential to function as an addictive "drug" if it the user perceives it as pleasurable and the dopamine reward loop is repeatedly reinforced. Some substances such as alcohol are inherently addictive because they activate the reward loop more directly than others. However, while sugar may have some inherent addictive potential, I wouldn't put it in the same class as heroin, cocaine, or alcohol. Most people have no trouble "moderating" their sugar intake.
In any event, the solution isn't to avoid all substances and activities that might activate your brain's pleasure center in the fear that they might be addictive. The solution is to re-program your brain so that it isn't always chasing a high.
Seems like this is a key component to recovery for most.
In any event, the solution isn't to avoid all substances and activities that might activate your brain's pleasure center in the fear that they might be addictive. The solution is to re-program your brain so that it isn't always chasing a high.
Seems like this is a key component to recovery for most.
And yes I agree completely, the solution is to re-program the brain. But if we continue to pump drugs and sugar into our bodies, how can that reprogramming take place?
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Originally Posted by OfEpiphany
I have horrendous sugar withdrawals. I also can't drink soda for the same reasons; the artificial sweeteners results in the same thing. It leads to extreme irritability and anger every time I quit one or the other. In fact, it leads to such feelings of resentment that I've relapsed back into alcohol a couple times because of it.
The most prominent thing I've noticed is when I drink or eat sugar for a prolonged period of time (over the course of days) my mind feels like its fogged. When I quit these things, after a few weeks, my mind becomes more clear, noticeably.
Just giving my 2 cents on what I've noticed. But soda is so delicious with food......
The most prominent thing I've noticed is when I drink or eat sugar for a prolonged period of time (over the course of days) my mind feels like its fogged. When I quit these things, after a few weeks, my mind becomes more clear, noticeably.
Just giving my 2 cents on what I've noticed. But soda is so delicious with food......
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