entropy1964

Having been at this recovery thing for 12 years I've picked up a lot of knowledge. Hasn't always kept me sober however. But, hey it's interesting....so there's that.

Like a lot of addicts I've encuntered over the years, I'm a health nut. Oh really, you say. Yeah. But somehow my addicted, insane brain overlooks the whole ethanol dilemma. I know it's a poisonous neurotoxin but that doesn't stop me. Thus is addiction.

Millions of American die each year because of poor lifestyle choices. 70% of each dollar spent on healthcare is to treat metabolic syndrome...or disease caused by nutrition. Sugar is pretty much the known culprit at this point, unhealthy fat being next in line. We are fat, sick, depressed, anxious, can't sleep.

So why do millions of Americans keep eating junk, processed food, fast food? Because it's addictive and big food knows it. Big agro loves it and big pharm can't wait to invent the next drug to treat it.

Often alcoholics are told that sugar can stave off cravings for booze. Maybe. Or is it simply activating our already habituated reward centers to release dopamine in the same unhealthy way that alcohol does? In other words, is it prolonging the healing, and return to normal function that is required for long term recovery? I believe a lot of the depression and mood swings in early abstinence are due to our impaired reward centers. We simply can't enjoy normal activities because our reward centers are messed up. It takes time for these to normalize. If we switch to another substance that causes abnormal dopamine release, we inhibit the healing of our brains....or that is my theory.

So instead of reaching for sugar, reach for protein. Yup. Scrambled eggs as opposed to ice cream. I know, it's not what you want. But long term it may be a better choice. On Friday night I had frozen yogurt and two Oreos. I felt like crap yesterday morning. It's just a thought. I know that if you're really in a pinch, sugar is better than alcohol,. I get it. Just something to think about.

I don't know how to add a link but read-10 Similarities Between Sugar, Junk Food and Abusive Drugs.authoritynutrition.com. Very general but concise overview. I suggest just trying healthy protein first.....if after 30 minutes you're still jones-ing.....whip out the Oreos. It is milks favorite cookie after all

Della1968

I totally have to stay away from sugar....most carbs in general. I get the same feeling as being hungover. I do have to say at first hot fudge and fluff got me through a lot of cravings.

saoutchik

Yes it makes sense to steer clear of sugar and fat in the long term.

In the short term if it helps to stay off the even worse for you booze (which has a lot of sugars in it) then I would say eat the sweet stuff for a while

biminiblue

Preach! I've come to the same conclusions.

To add to your post, if I have anything sweet, the entire package is one serving.

Sugar was my gateway drug, At six years old I would binge on sugar. I mean, eat the whole pack of cookies, the whole bag of candy, whatever.

I've tried for ten years to learn to control it, but I have yet to be able to control my intake if I have it. I also have the same problem with carby snacks like trail mix, pretzels, potato chips, cereal, crackers, and white bread.

Upwardspiral

Yeah, I don't really like to hear it but I know it's true. Sugar gives me instant relief but makes me feel like crap.

Caffeine is a crutch of mine too and I know that long term they both need to be on the chopping block.

I look forward to a day when I can feel at ease with just water, herbal tea and whole foods.

sugarbear1

my nickname since I was about 2 is "Sugar"

I used to be found eating sugar out of the sugar bowl one finger (or spoon) at a time! It's still a problem, more so since I stopped drinking.....

When I drank, I didn't eat many sweets, but since sobriety, now I am pre-diabetic....

Soberwolf

Im not sure what it's classification is

KAD

I always get major sugar cravings when I get sober. It's insatiable sometimes. I'll finish one sugary, sweet treat and I'm already thinking of something else sweet to follow that up...exactly the way I behaved when I drank. I never feel good afterward. I feel shaky, weak, and have poor concentration. You're right. Eating protein instead leaves me feeling more stabilized. Interestingly enough, whenever I drank, I rarely ate sweets. I didn't really want them then.

entropy1964

So something I'm always confused about.....people say all the time that alcohol has a lot of sugar in it. But hard alcohol has zero net carbs. Zippo. Yes beer is liquid bread and wine, well it's grapes, so natural sugars. Spirits? Zero. It's what we add to the booze. I've also heard that we convert alcohol to sugar in our bodies....I don't think so. Confusing.

entropy1964

Yes. That's where I'm going with this. If I want to heal my addicted brain then I need to steer clear of all addictive substances....or that's my premise. Otherwise I will need to continually rely on some kind of substance to keep my reward center functioning. And for me that could eventually lead me back to booze.

entropy1964

Oh man, now don't be going after my caffeine . Haha! You're right though.....I can drink decaf right?

entropy1964

Yup. I can't tell you how many alcoholics have said this to me over the years. I have read in the past that there are connections between childhood sugar intake and addiction. Maybe it 'triggers' the addictive process and could indeed be a gateway drug. I've also read that technology addiction in childhood could be a trigger as well....cross addiction. This is all anecdotal but interesting....to me at least

entropy1964

And that's the interesting part.....the alcohol isn't satisfying sugar cravings because it's a sugar. It's satisfying addictive cravings in the reward center of the brain by releasing dopamine en masse. So what I'm saying is maybe we are craving sugar, not because it's sugar, but because it acts on our brain (dopamine rush) in the same way alcohol does. It's a drug. So if we want to normalize our brains, with the thinking that this will strengthen our recovery long term, we need to resist all drugs. Or whatever. It's just interesting.

NestWasEmpty

Yes I agree 100% that sugar is a sort of drug . Roughly 10 months ago . I started low carb eating . I was a Carb & sugar aholic , well actually carbs are sugar in another form . I stopped everything cold turkey . Bread , pasta , white potatoes , sugars of any kind . Except xylitol ( sugar free) whole foods , nothing processed . For almost 2 weeks I felt horrible . I swear truthfully was as bad as alcohol with drawl - Unbelievable Who would of thought plain old sugar could make you feel a rush ( so to speak) .

Andante

My sense is that you may have this by the wrong end of the stick. Any substance or activity has the potential to function as an addictive "drug" if it the user perceives it as pleasurable and the dopamine reward loop is repeatedly reinforced. Some substances such as alcohol are inherently addictive because they activate the reward loop more directly than others. However, while sugar may have some inherent addictive potential, I wouldn't put it in the same class as heroin, cocaine, or alcohol. Most people have no trouble "moderating" their sugar intake.

In any event, the solution isn't to avoid all substances and activities that might activate your brain's pleasure center in the fear that they might be addictive. The solution is to re-program your brain so that it isn't always chasing a high.

Seems like this is a key component to recovery for most.

advbike

FF, your theory makes sense to me.. that the early sugar intake primes the reward center for some of us, even though it's not really a drug per se.

I also had a huge sweet tooth as a kid, still find it difficult to moderate sweets, and was able to substitute a dessert for my next drink when I was done drinking for the night. Almost totally interchangeable.

I also am always surprised to see cookies and coffee at AA meetings.. and have suspected that it kept some folks in their addiction longer than necessary. I think nutrition and healthy eating, plus exercise, make sobriety so much easier to achieve.

advbike

I don't think that's correct. Many people do, hence the obesity problem.

How does one do that? The reward center evolved out of necessity, and is essential to our survival as a species, so we would mate, eat calorie dense foods, etc..

OfEpiphany

I have horrendous sugar withdrawals. I also can't drink soda for the same reasons; the artificial sweeteners results in the same thing. It leads to extreme irritability and anger every time I quit one or the other. In fact, it leads to such feelings of resentment that I've relapsed back into alcohol a couple times because of it.

The most prominent thing I've noticed is when I drink or eat sugar for a prolonged period of time (over the course of days) my mind feels like its fogged. When I quit these things, after a few weeks, my mind becomes more clear, noticeably.

Just giving my 2 cents on what I've noticed. But soda is so delicious with food......

Midton

This has been my smoothest attempt at sobriety yet. I haven't really had any problems in the last 16 days, no major cravings to speak of. I am beginning to believe that the answer is due to my sugar intake.

About 3 weeks before I quit booze I quit sugar cold turkey. In the last 5 weeks I've had nothing. No cake, chocolate, cookies, bread, pasta, rice, even my beloved weekly pizza. I've also cut down my fruit intake and upped my greens.

I feel the most in control of my sobriety as I've ever been and my AV is but a whisper compared to the past.

Andante

advbike —

Yes, the way I see it, the reward center evolved out of necessity, and in a normally functioning brain it’s a good thing for our survival. One way of defining addiction is that it’s the reward center mechanism gone haywire in an ever-increasing maladaptive feedback loop where the brain demands more and more of a particular substance or activity to meet a demand for pleasure reinforcement that can never be sated.

The “obesity problem” isn’t due to sugar per se. It’s due to a maladaptive reward feedback loop associated with food, often including sugar. Again, the ultimate solution isn’t to eliminate food, or even sugar. It’s to re-educate the brain's association of food (or sugar) with reward so that it no longer reinforces this maladaptive out-of-control feedback loop.

In the case of alcohol or other mind-altering substances where there’s a direct action on the dopamine receptors, abstinence is required because once established, the physical dependence can’t be reversed (“once a pickle, never again a cucumber”).

The need for brain re-training aside, I guess since refined sugar isn’t a dietary necessity, one can certainly choose to abstain from it.