Is sugar a drug
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Originally Posted by jimt91 
This is an interesting post, i was just thinking about it tonight. I have been having some intense opiate cravings and i noticed i will eat a lot of "junk" food and the cravings seem to go away afterwards. IME in the short term eating a little bit of cheat foods to get over initial cravings helps get the mind off using. This may only work with opiates though i'm not sure about alcohol. Over the long term though i think eating healthy is extremely important.
Anyway it seems like a lot of you guys are cutting out carbs in general, do you see problems with eating whole grains, brown rice, etc? I've never noticed sugar withdrawal, but i may just not be aware of whats going on. Milk, fruit, certain veggies, natural peanut butter, and a lot of other things have sugar in them. Any thoughts on these? I mean honey is pure sugar and is supposed to be good for us in reasonable amounts.
Anyway it seems like a lot of you guys are cutting out carbs in general, do you see problems with eating whole grains, brown rice, etc? I've never noticed sugar withdrawal, but i may just not be aware of whats going on. Milk, fruit, certain veggies, natural peanut butter, and a lot of other things have sugar in them. Any thoughts on these? I mean honey is pure sugar and is supposed to be good for us in reasonable amounts.
I think whether to cut out carbs, and which ones to cut out, depends on the individual. Whole grains, unprocessed grains I think are really good. Quinoa, bulgar, barley stuff like that...brown rice too. Peanut butter can be purchased without sugar....Jiffy and Skippy not so much. I love honey in my coffee so I use it in the morning. I think its really up to the individual. If you find that when you eat sugar, you can't stop, or you crave it, have a 'crash' from it, are overweight, and feel yucky when you don't have it, that could indicate you should probably stay away from it
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Originally Posted by Jeni26
I can SO relate to this. Great post thank you. Chocolate was my gateway drug too...I had the makings of an alcoholic when I used to steal and store sweet food as a kid.
I'm just getting to grips with this now, and feel better already.
I'm just getting to grips with this now, and feel better already.
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Originally Posted by advbike
I practically live on whole grains like oatmeal and cracked wheat cereals, brown rice, a little multigrain bread, etc. Along with cabbage salads, veggies and a little meat. DefinItely not low carb here, lol. I also cut out a lot of refined carbs and most dairy when I moved here to the Philippines and lost 12 lbs in the first 9 months. Still sneak the occasional treat though. Hard to break that habit.
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Originally Posted by jimt91
i have a lot of those same things 95% of the time with the exception of my weekly pizza to keep me sane during the boring and lonely/lazy weekends and flour tortillas with my chipotle burritos.
You people that cut out sugar i'm curious of your stances on things like peanut butter, honey, milk, fruit, etc? Do you feel better or worse without them?
You people that cut out sugar i'm curious of your stances on things like peanut butter, honey, milk, fruit, etc? Do you feel better or worse without them?
) but I use some 1/2 and 1/2 in my coffee. I eat tons of fruit. If you eat the whole fruit you are getting the fiber which slows and acts as a time release for the natural sugars...it isn't like mainlining...which is what processed sugar and high fructose corn syrup are akin to. Frankly I feel best when I eat TONs of veggies, lean protein and whole/unprocessed grains. But that's pretty boring so I do have treats. Just not often....I brought this topic up really in reference to early recovery....trying to stabilize the brains reward centers and normalize dopamine release in order to help support abstinence. If sugar's effect on the brain is similar to alcohol then my thinking is it could impair or stall recovery. Overtime, a diet of moderation is best. But maybe not in the beginning?
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Originally Posted by jimt91
I think sugar is only a problem when overdone, a moderate amount has it's place in diets IMO. Greek yogurt, cottage cheese, milk, fruit, and many other random things have sugar, but are great paired with a good exercise routine. Things like cookies, pop, and cake have crazy amounts of sugar that our bodies don't know how to handle.
One thing that i'm on the fence about is things like white rice, dough, etc. What makes one carb better than the other, considering they debunked the whole "eat 6 meals a day".
One thing that i'm on the fence about is things like white rice, dough, etc. What makes one carb better than the other, considering they debunked the whole "eat 6 meals a day".
I have found that processed food...even stuff that we often don't think of as processed like wheat flour, are less beneficial. Eating the whole food, in its original form, seems to be logical and I know my body prefers this (I know this because I don't gain weight, I have more energy and my mind is clearerererer). But I love white rice so I eat it in moderation. And I love potato's so I eats dem too.....
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I have had the greatest success with sobriety and weight loss, as well as health, whe eating low carb, low to no sugar, of course, no alcohol. My addiction is definitely a combination of carbs and alcohol, each seems to feed off the other. So, Holiday have been times when I relapse. Times when overall gluttony is sanctioned.
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Originally Posted by MrSmith
Funny you all have mentioned sugar cravings, for some reason my Doctor warned me about eating sugar during my early sobriety (I am on day 14), but I just thought she was saying that because she wanted me to be healthy in general. There may be something to the process that fantail described because it does seem that I am eating alot more sweets.
But IMHO, I think that finding something in the short term to take our mind off of our drug of choice, is a good thing as long as it isn't another drug of choice. I am finding that alot of my early success at sobriety is due to me occupying my mind with different things. I have read on different posts here about others doing the same thing.
I would suggest that you could give yourself a break in the short term with the sweets. Your not going to get a driving under the influence of sugar arrest or anything.
Just a thought. I also want to do some more research about what chronic alcohol abuse does to your enzymes and GI tract. My doctor has me taking Thiamine (Vitamin B1) daily due to some problem or the other that arises from drinking copious amounts of Vodka.
But IMHO, I think that finding something in the short term to take our mind off of our drug of choice, is a good thing as long as it isn't another drug of choice. I am finding that alot of my early success at sobriety is due to me occupying my mind with different things. I have read on different posts here about others doing the same thing.
I would suggest that you could give yourself a break in the short term with the sweets. Your not going to get a driving under the influence of sugar arrest or anything.
Just a thought. I also want to do some more research about what chronic alcohol abuse does to your enzymes and GI tract. My doctor has me taking Thiamine (Vitamin B1) daily due to some problem or the other that arises from drinking copious amounts of Vodka.
And heck ya, if its the ice cream or vodka...take the ice cream. I just brought this up because I do believe that for me, staying clear of sugar overall does help reduce my cravings for alcohol. Its just something I've noticed and thought interesting. And I'm passionate about health and nutrition and find the state of health for the average American to be shocking. Obesity in 1970 was less than 10% Now its reaching 38%....projected at 50% by 2030....that's obese...not just 20-30 lbs overweight. This concerns me too because we now have socialized medicine ....in other words, our tax dollars are paying part of the bill. 70% of each dollar spent in healthcare is because of metabolic syndrome....diseases caused by obesity. Entirely life style driven. The social and economic impact is staggering. Not to mention how awful people's quality of life is. Ok yeah anyway....sorry about that. Went too far huh?
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
Yeah good carbs are good. Its the refined stuff...so anything post agricultural revolution. Beans are great too, I think.
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
Andante, there is a direct effect on the dopamine receptors with sugar as well. Very similar to alcohol and opiates. Causing craving, tolerance and the addictive cycle.
However, there's a huge difference in degree here. Comparing sugar to alcohol or opiates is like comparing a cap pistol to an atomic bomb.
I could climb on a soapbox and say that caffeine is an "addictive drug" and that it is "very similar" to methamphetamine in its addictive mechanism, and technically I'd be correct, but I doubt if that would inspire a mass switch to decaf in AA meetings.
If cutting out sugar makes you feel better and reduces your alcohol cravings, then by all means go for it. But demonizing sugar as an "addictive drug" and classifying it as a menace on the scale of alcohol and opiates is a bit over the top, I think.
As in so many aspects of life, moderation is the key.
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Originally Posted by Andante
I stand corrected, at least technically.
However, there's a huge difference in degree here. Comparing sugar to alcohol or opiates is like comparing a cap pistol to an atomic bomb.
I could climb on a soapbox and say that caffeine is an "addictive drug" and that it is "very similar" to methamphetamine in its addictive mechanism, and technically I'd be correct, but I doubt if that would inspire a mass switch to decaf in AA meetings.
If cutting out sugar makes you feel better and reduces your alcohol cravings, then by all means go for it. But demonizing sugar as an "addictive drug" and classifying it as a menace on the scale of alcohol and opiates is a bit over the top, I think.
As in so many aspects of life, moderation is the key.
However, there's a huge difference in degree here. Comparing sugar to alcohol or opiates is like comparing a cap pistol to an atomic bomb.
I could climb on a soapbox and say that caffeine is an "addictive drug" and that it is "very similar" to methamphetamine in its addictive mechanism, and technically I'd be correct, but I doubt if that would inspire a mass switch to decaf in AA meetings.
If cutting out sugar makes you feel better and reduces your alcohol cravings, then by all means go for it. But demonizing sugar as an "addictive drug" and classifying it as a menace on the scale of alcohol and opiates is a bit over the top, I think.
As in so many aspects of life, moderation is the key.
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Originally Posted by fantail
Yeah, it's true that alcohol is not processed as sugar. But it's a similar system. Here's what I've worked out, anyone correct me if I've got parts of it wrong:
Alcohol largely replaces sugar while we're drinking. Because it's toxic, our body prioritizes it. So first it breaks it down into acetaldehyde, which is extremely harmful, and then it's all hands on deck to transform it into acetone, which can be burned as energy.
One of the enzymes needed to create acetone is the same one that's needed to process glucose. So it gets bumped from glucose duty to alcohol duty, our blood sugar drops and our body runs off of acetone instead of either sugar or more complex energy sources.
So when the acetone is gone, which for most alcoholics is their primary energy source, we crave glucose. It's fast energy, it's processed very similarly to alcohol. Also, we've damaged our GI tract very badly, including throwing our enzyme balance way off, so for a long time we aren't going to absorb the full nutrients from what we eat. So sugar makes it temporarily feel like all its needs are being met.
Alcohol largely replaces sugar while we're drinking. Because it's toxic, our body prioritizes it. So first it breaks it down into acetaldehyde, which is extremely harmful, and then it's all hands on deck to transform it into acetone, which can be burned as energy.
One of the enzymes needed to create acetone is the same one that's needed to process glucose. So it gets bumped from glucose duty to alcohol duty, our blood sugar drops and our body runs off of acetone instead of either sugar or more complex energy sources.
So when the acetone is gone, which for most alcoholics is their primary energy source, we crave glucose. It's fast energy, it's processed very similarly to alcohol. Also, we've damaged our GI tract very badly, including throwing our enzyme balance way off, so for a long time we aren't going to absorb the full nutrients from what we eat. So sugar makes it temporarily feel like all its needs are being met.
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
I respect your perspective. Wish I could moderate alcohol. Darn it !
I'm OK these days with being unable to moderate alcohol, but I sure did give it the old college try for a loooooong time!
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Originally Posted by jimt91
Why the minimal protein? I think the types of carbs have to do with energy levels as well. Sure your body uses them the same, but you will have longer drawn out energy from say oats than a slice of white bread. I did a low carb to quickly cut some weight and i liked it, but i've heard longterm ketosis is bad for the body?
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I don't stay in Ketosis constantly . I will have a high carb day about every other week . Everyone that does low carb eats differently. For me I can't have just a slice of bread or pizza - I have to stuff up with it till I get a stomach ache .
So I prefer to not eat high carb foods everyday . I believe that's were my addictive personality comes in . On anything
So I prefer to not eat high carb foods everyday . I believe that's were my addictive personality comes in . On anything
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I'm pretty sure all peanut butter has at least a gram or two of sugar lol i used to eat the organic, i go with skippy natural now though, has like 4-6g or something.
Anyway, as far as ketosis that's what i have heard it burns fat instead of carbs, but it is also harder to gain muscle on and tends to burn muscle quickly. That's more of an issue among bodybuilders and athletes though, the majority of people don't need to worry about it i guess. When i did a *sorta* ketosis diet i dropped from 260 to 190, and i'm very tall and wide so that was a lot of weight for me.
Anyway, as far as ketosis that's what i have heard it burns fat instead of carbs, but it is also harder to gain muscle on and tends to burn muscle quickly. That's more of an issue among bodybuilders and athletes though, the majority of people don't need to worry about it i guess. When i did a *sorta* ketosis diet i dropped from 260 to 190, and i'm very tall and wide so that was a lot of weight for me.
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Oh you're right. But its not 'added' sugar...as in processed stuff...or high fructose stuff. I'm lookin at my costco organic peanut butter and its just peanuts and salt....but it does have 2g of sugar. I'm really more referring to processed sugars/added sugars...not the naturally occuring stuff. I know that when you're counting carbs that matters. I don't do that. I just have a beef with processed foods and refined sugars.
Oh and did ya know? If you look at your labels on food it shows a percent of daily value....for example my Peanut Butter has 15g of fat or 23% of the recommended daily allowance of fat. This goes for cholestoral, sodium, carbs....now look at the sugar....what do you see? Nothing. No % daily value. The sugar lobbies went burzerk with this and somehow managed to get the FDA to leave out percentage of sugar. So if you eat say, Special K with red Berries, something like 23g of sugar? It would read something like 220% of daily allowance (I don't know the numbers). Soooo the Big Sugar Corps didn't like that. Big money buys big allowances...and politicians. Me? Demonize sugar? Never. Seems perfectly ok to me....or does it?
Oh and did ya know? If you look at your labels on food it shows a percent of daily value....for example my Peanut Butter has 15g of fat or 23% of the recommended daily allowance of fat. This goes for cholestoral, sodium, carbs....now look at the sugar....what do you see? Nothing. No % daily value. The sugar lobbies went burzerk with this and somehow managed to get the FDA to leave out percentage of sugar. So if you eat say, Special K with red Berries, something like 23g of sugar? It would read something like 220% of daily allowance (I don't know the numbers). Soooo the Big Sugar Corps didn't like that. Big money buys big allowances...and politicians. Me? Demonize sugar? Never. Seems perfectly ok to me....or does it?
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Originally Posted by Frickaflip233
I brought this topic up really in reference to early recovery....trying to stabilize the brains reward centers and normalize dopamine release in order to help support abstinence. If sugar's effect on the brain is similar to alcohol then my thinking is it could impair or stall recovery. Overtime, a diet of moderation is best. But maybe not in the beginning?
On the other hand, the first time I got sober I ate ice cream basically every day for two months, and I do still believe that that was what I needed to do at that time to get through without going nuts.
So yeah... if sweets keep someone sober, I'm all for that.
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I've been skinny my whole adult life. I've been a heavy drinker my whole adult life. Now sober 18 months, I've put on 20 pounds of solid fat. Crave sweets like a candy-demon. There's definitely a connection here.
I know what I have to do. Once again have to use more self discipline...
I think my big question regards the newly sober. It is hard to imagine being back there with no candy. Would it have been easier to just take the initial pain to be stabilized?
Might have needed a rubber room.
I know what I have to do. Once again have to use more self discipline...
I think my big question regards the newly sober. It is hard to imagine being back there with no candy. Would it have been easier to just take the initial pain to be stabilized?
Might have needed a rubber room.
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