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Old 05-25-2015, 10:42 AM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by thomas11 View Post
I prefer to be anonymous.
Finally, something that makes sense.

Given your "colorful" history, which you've only just fleshed out today, I can understand why being invisible offers comfort for you. You as much as suggested that significant parts of your younger years were reactions to people and things around you, rather than the choices of a sane and sober mind. This is true for me as well, and I imagine that I'm far from alone in this.

Not a personal criticism, but an observation based on, what for me, is a bias: Body-building (Or is it now called "body-sculpting?") is often practiced as compensation for so much that is missing inside, at least for some, perhaps many. And you seem to have come to learn this over time. A distorted (some would say "disfigured") body with outsized muscles can never replace the loss of love, if love was ever on the table in the first place. Same with wealth, status, and grand achievement in a field that offers virtually nothing of any substance to both its practitioners and to society as a whole. The only people envious of the achievements of body-builders and of the bodies that they've built are other body-builders or people who wish they could follow that same path. I've never met or known a single person who's confided that they wish they had chosen it, as a career or as an avocation.

Out-of-proportion muscles do "hide" the real person, to the extent that the newer look is not only clichè, but also a type of armor, emotionally and aesthetically. It provides the anonymity you now acknowledge that you crave. When being looked at is your source of self-esteem, it has its cost. People are not, in fact, looking at you, but at an artificial "exoskeleton" that virtually anyone with the means and motivation could achieve. Talent or skill is irrelevant, except within the narrow limits of the activity itself. Success is measured among body-builders, not by who they are, but by how they've manipulated their bodies in order to draw attention, much of which is also manipulated by what we're actually seeing.

Enough about that. Again, all this is my personal bias, and I don't imagine that all body builders live unhappy lives without experiencing genuine meaning. We all only get to be who we truly are by what we do to get there.

I don't know much about your marriage, and it's unlikely I'd have brought it up had you not mentioned it so many times, but it's possible that you may be also hiding in your relationship with your wife. Such an imposing presence as a caregiver may offer comfort, but I'm concerned that it may also make you feel incompetent when it comes to caring for yourself, at least in terms of your inner life and the "voices" from your past that you seek to mute by drinking.

I'll say it again: When you first came to SR, you spoke about having everything a person could ever want in life, that life was great, with the exception of a nagging problem around drinking too much on the weekends. I'm not interested in scolding you for withholding information that you've only recently revealed when you've been drinking. No one should feel obligated to talk about things that they'd prefer to remain unspoken. Now that the cat's out of the bag, there are clearly stark differences between the picture you initially painted and what in your life has brought you to where you are to today.

As in your younger days, you have all the external things, the trappings of success that tell us we should be much happier than we are by virtue of having them. They are, instead, perhaps a dismal reminder of the unhappiness of an earlier time, the things that "everybody would want," that only left you feeling alone and frightened. The past is always alive in the present; it's who we are. What we do with it makes the difference. So it only makes sense that you'd search for a partner who'd bring some relief to your inner turmoil. And it only makes sense that you'd feel like a "hopeless case," given that you seem to be repeating an unpleasant past in the present. But the booze, as ever, only makes things worse.

The cutting edge for you seems to be to work through your earlier conflicts, to learn to have healthier emotional experiences with the people in your life, and to find and then work with the courage to become who you are. But none of this can ever happen while you're drinking, or while you're in a state of fragile abstinence that relies on your wife's supervision in order keep it from falling from the mantle.

There is, after all, value in all threads you've been throwing up here the past week. You get to look back and see, under your own name, the stuff that makes you feel crazy, that isn't quite right in your life, that keep you drunk with periods of hold-your-breath abstinence until your wife is again not around. Our behaviors while we're drinking may not always reflect who we truly are, but our nightmares are more often than not grounded in what we've done and what we've been in the past.

As is, or as has been true of so many of us, your past continues to haunt your present. You've got a great opportunity here to set things right in your life. Most of us have a great deal of difficulty in finding our way to confront our fears, so we continue to drink instead, celebrating sometimes brief, sometimes longer stretches of sobriety, as if days and months without a drink will take care of everything.

Even if you survive this latest binge, you'd be doing yourself a tremendous favor by getting yourself into detox (if still needed), and then to inpatient rehab. And yes, therapy. At least make a solid plan to deal with what's killing you inside.
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:47 AM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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endgame I don't get you.Bodybuilding is great for you.I really don't get you.I workout and I must say have a nice body and its getting bigger and stronger every day is there something wrong in taking pride in the way you look?Your comments are off the wall.Tell me why I should stop weight lifting....What am I compensating for?I like to look appealing period...tell me more about your thoughts on lifting....I also bike ride run and play baseball....mabey I should drop the weights grab a seat at the tv .Body building is a lot harder than you can imagine,,,,,but im sure you already know that.....Go to the gym spend an hr might enlighten your insane thoughts...I was a wrestler also....6ft 1 215 and very muscular that's me what am I doing wrong
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:50 AM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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Maybe being hyper sensitive without reading the whole backstory?
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:01 PM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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Having ties to organized crime is not an excuse to drink.
Arnold Rothstein was a teetotaler.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:16 PM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by ArtFriend View Post
'I drank for joy and became miserable.

I drank to be outgoing and became self centered.

I drank to be sociable and became lonely.

I drank for friendship and made enemies.

I drank to soften sorrow and wallowed in self-pity.

I drank for sleep and awakened without rest.

I drank for strength and felt weak.

I drank for relaxation and got the shakes.

I drank for confidence and felt unsure

I drank for courage and became afraid

I drank for assurance and became doubtful

I drank to forget thoughts and had blackouts

I drank for conversation and tied my tongue

I drank to be in heaven and I came to know hell

I drank to forget and became haunted

I drank for freedom and became a slave (of alcohol)

I drank to ease problems and saw them multiply

I drank to cope with life and invited death.

I drank because I had the 'right' to and everything turned out wrong.

Said this fellow, 'It must have taken a bunch of booze to get you in this shape?

I said, 'Just one. For me one is too many and a thousand isn't enough.'

Ruby Mae Heard
Thanks for sharing this, I love it!!!
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:22 PM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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said my piece not interested in a response
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:31 PM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by exwell66 View Post
endgame I don't get you.Bodybuilding is great for you.I really don't get you.I workout and I must say have a nice body and its getting bigger and stronger every day is there something wrong in taking pride in the way you look?Your comments are off the wall.Tell me why I should stop weight lifting....What am I compensating for?I like to look appealing period...tell me more about your thoughts on lifting....I also bike ride run and play baseball....mabey I should drop the weights grab a seat at the tv .Body building is a lot harder than you can imagine,,,,,but im sure you already know that.....Go to the gym spend an hr might enlighten your insane thoughts...I was a wrestler also....6ft 1 215 and very muscular that's me what am I doing wrong
I stated that what I wrote was my bias, and that I didn't believe that my comments applied to everyone. I was commenting on body-building as a way of life, a career, an avocation, not as a means of staying healthy and in shape. I made a generalization in order throw a particular theme or themes that emerged in the OP's comments in sharper relief.

I started training in a traditional style of martial arts in 1983, when I first got sober, and continue to do so, several times each week, now with a sensei who has trained fighters with world rankings in international competitions. I have a black belt in one style and, after my sensei retired a few years ago, began training in another traditional style last spring. I also ride a stationary bike five times a week, sixty to ninety minutes each time, and then a road bike in nice weather. I use simple hand weights in my training because bulking up makes one less of a skilled and effective practitioner of karate than more, since both speed and precision are paramount, and from which power derives.

Though I'm in good shape and happy that I am, I do none of these things in the service of offering my body on display as an object of art or wonder, which I most certainly am not.

Back to the OP, please.
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Old 05-25-2015, 12:54 PM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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I am glad the moderator removed your personal info that you posted, you have the tools to make a good go at sobriety please use them. My family is from the twin cities and it's a nice place.

Added, if I ever needed a reminder to stay sober this weekend this thread is it.
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:20 PM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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I wish I had right to post

Pls pls don't be where I am
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:26 PM
  # 70 (permalink)  
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Thomas, I know you are struggling but please don't put all of this on your wife.
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:51 PM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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From the exchange of Endgame and exwell, a thought struck me. One thing I've learned in my struggles with maintaining sobriety is the following. In the end, it always comes down to whether you feel the need to defend your position or not. Taking a defensive stance points to the fact that a) you feel under siege and b) you might not be so sure about whether or not you yourself actually feel that what you are doing is right.
For example. I've never had to defend a walk in the forest, listening to birds and enjoying the fresh air. I've had to defend having a fourth hamburger in one sitting. I've never had to defend helping my grandmother. I've had to defend not showing up when I promised, because I was drunk or hungover.
So if you feel like defending your position, take a step back and try figuring out what the real problem is
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Old 05-25-2015, 01:57 PM
  # 72 (permalink)  
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Meanwhile, there are people reaching out for help on SR who are willing and sincere about getting sober who are being ignored because of this thread...I'm sorry but you don't need your butt wiped by anyone, you need to stand on your own two feet and get help...which obviously you don't want. I may only be sober a short time but I can still smell ********.
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Old 05-25-2015, 02:06 PM
  # 73 (permalink)  
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If people feel other newcomers are being ignored then please by all means go post to them

I'd like everyone to try and keep their comments constructive please.

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Old 05-25-2015, 03:10 PM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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Dee
I understand what you are saying, but something about this thread is like a moth to a flame. Maybe it's just me seeing myself a bit. Maybe the tough love thrown out there. Dunno. But I do know that I wish there was a 'someone' who could make it all go away, so I understand sort of what Thomas thinks he is doing. I also know that NOONE will ever be that person, and even if they will, only for a short while. It's easy to say this sober. Totally easy. But if I were gunned off my gourd right now, I might think Thomas' logic makes sense. All I get from this thread is a drunk person who seems to want to make contact, albeit from a drunk place, knowing being drunk is going to end him somehow, and a bunch of stuff thrown back in his face. I am not a prolific poster, but I have to call out one thing that really bothers me
There is a poster/admin who pops up and seems to viciously remind people of things they have written before. Maybe when they were drunk or sober, but part of their history. But it's not their TODAY. I feel weird calling this out as no one else does - so I guess it's accepted. I would hate to think if I fell off the wagon again that my past cheery you can do it's would be slapped in my face. I just don't think it would be helpful. I think a lot of us try to be kind to newcomers, but those threads seem to die quickly. When I first reached out, I got very little response here. I responded to some other people too and got very little response. Maybe some people here are feeling like you have to be an absolute train wreck on SR to get the attention you are desperately seeking? I can see that point of view too.
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Old 05-25-2015, 03:28 PM
  # 75 (permalink)  
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Exclamation

I think we're free falling a bit here Irnldy.

I try to do the best I can to balance the needs of one poster against the needs of all posters here in the forum.

I'm sure I sometimes get that wrong, but I do my best, and I consult with my fellow mods and admin to make sure I don't get it wrong too many times.

As it goes, I really don't believe that support is a finite commodity. There's more than enough support to go round, trust me.

If you or anyone else wants to post in this thread all day thats fine - as long as its constructive it will help somebody reading it.

If you feel other people are missing out on support, please post to them and make them feel welcome too.


Now...as for the last bit...I've reminded people of past posts before - let me assure you there was nothing vicious or punitive about it lrnldy.

Sometimes the best response is your own words looking back at you.

Nevertheless, if you have a complaint, no matter who the poster is, you can report the post. Use the little exclamation mark at the bottom of the relevant post.

The mods and admin will look at it according to our rules and policies.

I really don't think that this thread is the appropriate place to air grievances tho.

If you want to continue this conversation, can you PM me maybe?

Let's all get back to the topic.
thanks

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Old 05-25-2015, 03:33 PM
  # 76 (permalink)  
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You can post on mine... I am feeling needy! And trying hard.... ok I won't steal the thread.
This has been a helpful thread, yes dramatic but for me and a few others it helped us stay sober because it is sad to see, thomas bared it all- it's his cry for help.
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Old 05-25-2015, 03:49 PM
  # 77 (permalink)  
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sleepie, that made me lol, literally I agree with you; this thread has been helpful, but I think we should give Dee and others a break. I actually read my own posts today from back in April of last year just to remind myself what a mess I was. I don't see anything wrong with bringing up things like that. I think it's helpful.

We alchoholics are a needy bunch, no doubt!

And Thomas/Jeff, I really hope you get help. You're just like the rest of us, and you deserve it
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:01 PM
  # 78 (permalink)  
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I don't think I was giving Dee a hard time, I agreed with him, I really do mean it about the thread being helpful. I am the same, I used to drink and post here- I even mentioned it earlier in the thread, or one of thomas's other ones.
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:01 PM
  # 79 (permalink)  
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Noones giving me a hard time - 'sall cool

D
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Old 05-25-2015, 04:05 PM
  # 80 (permalink)  
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There's a huge and significant difference between throwing things in other people's faces in order to hurt them, and reminding them of where they've come from as an instrument of change that heals.

I think it's very difficult to make meaningful changes in our lives without confronting our past behaviors, which include our thoughts and words. Burying such things as part of the past runs the risk of repeating what we refused to attend to previously. I also don't think that the practice of doing this on SR has been abused, and the often extreme emotional reactions when it's done betray an unwillingness to look at ourselves in a healthy and objective way, while highlighting the intense pain that we're nurturing.

Here and IRL, I've witnessed and experienced the power of confronting our past as transformational experiences, while keeping the lid on things tends to nurture the status quo, ultimately making things much worse.

I don't make the rules; I only observe them.
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