The Updated Clean Plan for Stability
God's work in progress
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Northeast US
Posts: 515
For ifh and anyone else with some interest (you can buy anywhere you wish or rent from the library):
Amazon.com: Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism (9780553274875): James Robert Milam, Katherine Ketcham: Books
Amazon.com: Under the Influence: A Guide to the Myths and Realities of Alcoholism (9780553274875): James Robert Milam, Katherine Ketcham: Books
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,002
Paul,
There are many resources available. Start doing some research and adding tools to win this fight. You know you have a problem, you know you want to change. This is hard work for us all, unlike anything we have ever done. We all struggle, that is why SR is such a great site. You can log on here and pour your heart out, and almost immediately there is someone who replies and can help. Keep up the good fight. You can win if you give it everything you have.
There are many resources available. Start doing some research and adding tools to win this fight. You know you have a problem, you know you want to change. This is hard work for us all, unlike anything we have ever done. We all struggle, that is why SR is such a great site. You can log on here and pour your heart out, and almost immediately there is someone who replies and can help. Keep up the good fight. You can win if you give it everything you have.
Recovering
Join Date: May 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,361
Paul,
I recognize the problem.
But let me be a little hard for a moment. In this thread, we can see you firmly commiting to first rationing your alcohol intake and then abstaining from alcohol (at least for a period). You didn't manage to do either. The hard message is that no matter how much you'd like to think there isn't a problem we can see, from a distance, that it is desire for alcohol that's currently in charge of your life. To break that you're probably going to need to consider greater changes than you've so far made.
Hard talk over. Stay with us buddy, whatever happens.
I recognize the problem.
But let me be a little hard for a moment. In this thread, we can see you firmly commiting to first rationing your alcohol intake and then abstaining from alcohol (at least for a period). You didn't manage to do either. The hard message is that no matter how much you'd like to think there isn't a problem we can see, from a distance, that it is desire for alcohol that's currently in charge of your life. To break that you're probably going to need to consider greater changes than you've so far made.
Hard talk over. Stay with us buddy, whatever happens.
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Michael66 
Paul,
I recognize the problem.
But let me be a little hard for a moment. In this thread, we can see you firmly commiting to first rationing your alcohol intake and then abstaining from alcohol (at least for a period). You didn't manage to do either. The hard message is that no matter how much you'd like to think there isn't a problem we can see, from a distance, that it is desire for alcohol that's currently in charge of your life. To break that you're probably going to need to consider greater changes than you've so far made.
Hard talk over. Stay with us buddy, whatever happens.
I recognize the problem.
But let me be a little hard for a moment. In this thread, we can see you firmly commiting to first rationing your alcohol intake and then abstaining from alcohol (at least for a period). You didn't manage to do either. The hard message is that no matter how much you'd like to think there isn't a problem we can see, from a distance, that it is desire for alcohol that's currently in charge of your life. To break that you're probably going to need to consider greater changes than you've so far made.
Hard talk over. Stay with us buddy, whatever happens.
I guess I'll be honest, any day I don't wake up with a hangover is a success to me. And so far I've been 11-1 after going 0-365 for the previous year. I will take that success any day of the week.
I'm just going to keep this going. It just constantly reminds me not to fall back in to the trap I was in for the past year and a half and gives me a constant reminder that I do not need alcohol to get through the day. I'm not going to give up just because I had couple drinks the past couple days.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,066
Originally Posted by pauladmits
I've actually managed to do very well the past 2 weeks. You are acting like it's been a complete failure. Might not have reached 100% of my goals, but I have managed to make changes in my life. Sure there is a problem, I've recognized it... it's only been 12 days, I'm just going to keep on keeping on. I screwed up one day of rationing, noticed the problem, kept going. I might as well just say now, that I do not see a problem with the past two days. I wasn't drinking alone in my room, didn't drink during the day by myself, didn't drink at night by myself. It was two days of social events and fun that had some drinking involved. I've decided I'm not going to beat myself up over it.
I guess I'll be honest, any day I don't wake up with a hangover is a success to me. And so far I've been 11-1 after going 0-365 for the previous year. I will take that success any day of the week.
I'm just going to keep this going. It just constantly reminds me not to fall back in to the trap I was in for the past year and a half and gives me a constant reminder that I do not need alcohol to get through the day. I'm not going to give up just because I had couple drinks the past couple days.
I guess I'll be honest, any day I don't wake up with a hangover is a success to me. And so far I've been 11-1 after going 0-365 for the previous year. I will take that success any day of the week.
I'm just going to keep this going. It just constantly reminds me not to fall back in to the trap I was in for the past year and a half and gives me a constant reminder that I do not need alcohol to get through the day. I'm not going to give up just because I had couple drinks the past couple days.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 1,145
I don't think anybody thinks you've failed, Paul. It's just that we recognise signs and wish to help you. You alone know your body and your mind, but we (from experience) know what thought processes kept us drinking, and are alerting you to that.
For a long time (probably 2 years) I knew that I had a problem. I made countless attempts at quitting entirely (one attempt lasted a month) and also so many times I tried to control my alcohol intake, justify it, do little things here and there to try and prove that alcohol was nothing to me.
I only actually managed to quit (and want to quit forever) when I made a conscious decision that THIS IS IT. NO MORE. I WANT NOT ONE MORE DRINK, EVER. And then I decided that I will never, ever, ever drink again. And from that point on things were pretty easier. I know now, and I am comfortable and happy with the fact that I will never drink again. It makes it so much easier saying never - it frees you. It takes away all anxieties about future drinks.
I'm not trying to be harsh when I say this, I have just been where you are so many times. I've reasoned with myself over and over. I've said it's OK to drink on social occasions, so long as I don't drink on my own. But you have to decide what you want, Paul - do you want to be sober? Or do you want to drink when you think drinking is appropriate?
For a long time (probably 2 years) I knew that I had a problem. I made countless attempts at quitting entirely (one attempt lasted a month) and also so many times I tried to control my alcohol intake, justify it, do little things here and there to try and prove that alcohol was nothing to me.
I only actually managed to quit (and want to quit forever) when I made a conscious decision that THIS IS IT. NO MORE. I WANT NOT ONE MORE DRINK, EVER. And then I decided that I will never, ever, ever drink again. And from that point on things were pretty easier. I know now, and I am comfortable and happy with the fact that I will never drink again. It makes it so much easier saying never - it frees you. It takes away all anxieties about future drinks.
I'm not trying to be harsh when I say this, I have just been where you are so many times. I've reasoned with myself over and over. I've said it's OK to drink on social occasions, so long as I don't drink on my own. But you have to decide what you want, Paul - do you want to be sober? Or do you want to drink when you think drinking is appropriate?
Administrator
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,662
noones trying to put you down Paul 
Like I said before I find this an amazing thread.
I often let my fear push me backwards - just as I was on the edge of something new, I'd make all the rationalisations - I wasn't that bad I was doing ok, really - and I'd let it all slip and run back to the familiar...
All anyone is saying is don't do that - you've come a long way, man
I think recent posts have made some great points - and I don't think they've been hard at all.
D
Like I said before I find this an amazing thread.
I often let my fear push me backwards - just as I was on the edge of something new, I'd make all the rationalisations - I wasn't that bad I was doing ok, really - and I'd let it all slip and run back to the familiar...
All anyone is saying is don't do that - you've come a long way, man
I think recent posts have made some great points - and I don't think they've been hard at all.
D
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Stevie1
The comparison between this post and your post #238 is quite telling.
I'm reading material given to me, I'm taking in what other people are saying. It's a lot of stuff to take on. And the one thing I've learned is that everyone worked it out differently. Some used AA, some didn't, some came to the conclusion in their mind they would never drink again, some had health problems, some found religion, some read books, some took on programs. I mean there is so much stuff out there.
I feel like it's just begun and couple nights of drinking at the beginning is not a reason to give up.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
You wrote this while under the influence, but probably not drunk.
Originally Posted by pauladmits
I'm completely lost, can't sleep. I don't know who I am, I don't know who's in charge, I don't know what I want. I drank again tonight. I don't even have an excuse. My dad got two bottles of wine for my sister, me, and him... and my brother in law got a 12 pack of beer. I drank about two glasses of wine and 2 vodka/pepsi's. 4 drinks for the night and I'm flipping out. There was no fight, simply acceptance.
I honestly feel like a fraud. I have absolutely no clue what is true or false. It changes by the minute. One minute I want to change, the next minute I want to control, the next minute I do not care. There is no one in charge. I tell you guys I want to change, then the second I get off, I tell myself I don't need to change. It's a non stop battle and I really just do not know who's in charge.
There's not a single thing I can tell you that I feel is real. I can say that I never want to drink again, but at the same time feel I do. I can tell you I want to drink tomorrow but at the same time I don't. It's making me feel like I'm crazy. I still have not come to grips with the fact that alcohol is controlling me. I still convince myself that I'm controlling my own actions and if I want to drink alcohol it's because I choose too. If you talk to me now I will tell you I'm not in control, if you talk to me in 10 minutes I will tell you I'm in control.
I'm honestly at a loss for words. Right now, I'm vulnerable and want advice and want to be told how to do this. When I wake up tomorrow I'll feel overly confident, I'll feel no one can tell me what to do, it's a stubbornness where anything anyone says goes in one ear and out the other. I feel like I have all the answers, I feel like I can do it on my own with out any help. But just the fact that I'm here right now, is a telltale sign that I can't. The one positive about this process is I'm recognizing my weakness... I'm able to capture these moments. During the day when I want alcohol at 12 or 1 in the afternoon, I have a conversation with myself and tell myself that is unacceptable behavior and a sign of a true addict who has no control. When I want alcohol in bed before I go to sleep, I tell myself that I do not need it and that is unacceptable behavior.
So I don't know what to tell you. I trust myself and don't trust myself at the same time and I do not even know which one is my true self. The one thing I know is I do not want to stop this journey. Every day, even outside of just alcohol I'm learning more and more about myself... I'm having conversations with myself I've never had, I'm making decisions that I haven't made in the past... I'm doing things with a common goal to have a more productive life and live my life to the fullest. I appreciate all your support and all your advice. I know I'm up and down, day and night, etc. But I'm sure everyone here can relate to these feelings at some time in their life.
I'm not quitting, I will be here tomorrow, and continue on!
I honestly feel like a fraud. I have absolutely no clue what is true or false. It changes by the minute. One minute I want to change, the next minute I want to control, the next minute I do not care. There is no one in charge. I tell you guys I want to change, then the second I get off, I tell myself I don't need to change. It's a non stop battle and I really just do not know who's in charge.
There's not a single thing I can tell you that I feel is real. I can say that I never want to drink again, but at the same time feel I do. I can tell you I want to drink tomorrow but at the same time I don't. It's making me feel like I'm crazy. I still have not come to grips with the fact that alcohol is controlling me. I still convince myself that I'm controlling my own actions and if I want to drink alcohol it's because I choose too. If you talk to me now I will tell you I'm not in control, if you talk to me in 10 minutes I will tell you I'm in control.
I'm honestly at a loss for words. Right now, I'm vulnerable and want advice and want to be told how to do this. When I wake up tomorrow I'll feel overly confident, I'll feel no one can tell me what to do, it's a stubbornness where anything anyone says goes in one ear and out the other. I feel like I have all the answers, I feel like I can do it on my own with out any help. But just the fact that I'm here right now, is a telltale sign that I can't. The one positive about this process is I'm recognizing my weakness... I'm able to capture these moments. During the day when I want alcohol at 12 or 1 in the afternoon, I have a conversation with myself and tell myself that is unacceptable behavior and a sign of a true addict who has no control. When I want alcohol in bed before I go to sleep, I tell myself that I do not need it and that is unacceptable behavior.
So I don't know what to tell you. I trust myself and don't trust myself at the same time and I do not even know which one is my true self. The one thing I know is I do not want to stop this journey. Every day, even outside of just alcohol I'm learning more and more about myself... I'm having conversations with myself I've never had, I'm making decisions that I haven't made in the past... I'm doing things with a common goal to have a more productive life and live my life to the fullest. I appreciate all your support and all your advice. I know I'm up and down, day and night, etc. But I'm sure everyone here can relate to these feelings at some time in their life.
I'm not quitting, I will be here tomorrow, and continue on!
I think it's important for you to know how you feel about what you have said in the above post when you have no alcohol in your system and you are completely in your right-mind?
For instance, I can still remember a time when my father either haphazardly or consciously (I never really found out) managed to sabotage an important problem I was trying to solve (I needed to borrow the car for my first high school date and he 'forgot' to be home on time with it. I felt so brittle and was livid inside.) What exactly was happening right around the time you took that first drink last night?
GT
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Posts: 391
Originally Posted by GerandTwine
Paul,
I think it's important for you to know how you feel about what you have said in the above post when you have no alcohol in your system and you are completely in your right-mind?
For instance, I can still remember a time when my father either haphazardly or consciously (I never really found out) managed to sabotage an important problem I was trying to solve (I needed to borrow the car for my first high school date and he 'forgot' to be home on time with it. I felt so brittle and was livid inside.) What exactly was happening right around the time you took that first drink last night?
GT
I think it's important for you to know how you feel about what you have said in the above post when you have no alcohol in your system and you are completely in your right-mind?
For instance, I can still remember a time when my father either haphazardly or consciously (I never really found out) managed to sabotage an important problem I was trying to solve (I needed to borrow the car for my first high school date and he 'forgot' to be home on time with it. I felt so brittle and was livid inside.) What exactly was happening right around the time you took that first drink last night?
GT
But you can talk to me in an hour and I might have a completely different mindset. I'm all over the place these days.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,066
I've done all the rationalizations...I'm GREAT at rationalising, I've done it for decades!
"I'll only drink on Tuesdays." (Managed that one for almost a year - but was I sober? NO. Was I a complete mess in other areas of my life? YES.)
In later drinking times, I was proud of myself if I could refrain from drinking just one day a week - but the last time I was able to do THAT was several years ago. Alcoholism is progressive. Twenty years ago, I got hammered in bars with friends; I was a total party girl. After a while I started carrying vodka in my purse and hitting it in the loo so it didn't look like I was swilling more than my companions. I haven't gotten drunk in a bar in years because I got to where I could no longer trust myself. In recent years, most of my serious drinking has been done in isolation. Not good.
"I'll only drink on weekends/with other people/wine/on vacation/after 7 pm/blah blah."
"I'm in control and it's OK once in a while because I:
Drank but didn't wake up with a hangover.
Drank socially, without making a drunken idiot of myself.
Drank but didn't black out.
Drank, had fun, and remembered what I did the next morning."
Etc. Sure, I was able to do all those things, often, especially in my 20s and 30s. Wish I'd been able to stop drinking back then, I wouldn't have screwed up so very many things in my life.
I also rationalised at times it was OK because I was (usually) very high-functioning generally. Well except for my ever-shrivelling soul. My father was a high-functioning alcoholic too. He died too young of liver cancer though.
Alcoholism is sneaky - cunning, baffling and powerful. And progressive.
"I'll only drink on Tuesdays." (Managed that one for almost a year - but was I sober? NO. Was I a complete mess in other areas of my life? YES.)
In later drinking times, I was proud of myself if I could refrain from drinking just one day a week - but the last time I was able to do THAT was several years ago. Alcoholism is progressive. Twenty years ago, I got hammered in bars with friends; I was a total party girl. After a while I started carrying vodka in my purse and hitting it in the loo so it didn't look like I was swilling more than my companions. I haven't gotten drunk in a bar in years because I got to where I could no longer trust myself. In recent years, most of my serious drinking has been done in isolation. Not good.
"I'll only drink on weekends/with other people/wine/on vacation/after 7 pm/blah blah."
"I'm in control and it's OK once in a while because I:
Drank but didn't wake up with a hangover.
Drank socially, without making a drunken idiot of myself.
Drank but didn't black out.
Drank, had fun, and remembered what I did the next morning."
Etc. Sure, I was able to do all those things, often, especially in my 20s and 30s. Wish I'd been able to stop drinking back then, I wouldn't have screwed up so very many things in my life.
I also rationalised at times it was OK because I was (usually) very high-functioning generally. Well except for my ever-shrivelling soul. My father was a high-functioning alcoholic too. He died too young of liver cancer though.
Alcoholism is sneaky - cunning, baffling and powerful. And progressive.
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Join Date: Aug 2003
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Posts: 61,640
Originally Posted by pauladmits
That's probably why I'm being so defensive right now and so stubborn. Is that I've convinced myself that the last two nights were not a problem.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Anchorage, AK
Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Dee74
noones trying to put you down Paul
Like I said before I find this an amazing thread.
I often let my fear push me backwards - just as I was on the edge of something new, I'd make all the rationalisations - I wasn't that bad I was doing ok, really - and I'd let it all slip and run back to the familiar...
All anyone is saying is don't do that - you've come a long way, man
I think recent posts have made some great points - and I don't think they've been hard at all.
D
Like I said before I find this an amazing thread.
I often let my fear push me backwards - just as I was on the edge of something new, I'd make all the rationalisations - I wasn't that bad I was doing ok, really - and I'd let it all slip and run back to the familiar...
All anyone is saying is don't do that - you've come a long way, man
I think recent posts have made some great points - and I don't think they've been hard at all.
D
I have so much reading material that I've been given it's going to take me months to get a handle on all this stuff. That's why I'm taking it day by day. If I slip up and drink couple drinks, I want to be truthful about it but most importantly just realize that today is a new day and today I have to work on being better and focus on doing things that improve my life and improve my relationships with people around me that I've been completely ignoring.
I have done things these past 2 weeks that I have never done in my entire life. So thank you for all your support. I do not mean to come off brash this afternoon even though I know I'm in that kind of aggressive mood.
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Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: SE Michigan
Posts: 1,066
Originally Posted by Anna
Paul, that's exactly right. Once again, your perspective is working one hundred percent. We're not judging you, we're really not. I think most, if not all of us, have been where you are. We understand the frustration and confusion. You're doing great and of course things are a bit overwhelming at this point. The last two nights were not a huge problem for you because you didn't get drunk. However, neither did you plan to drink on either of those nights.
Yes it's overwhelming and you're getting a lot of stuff thrown at you right now. I love that you're still making a huge effort to be honest and figure it out.
Not The Way way, Just the way
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: US
Posts: 1,413
Originally Posted by pauladmits
What's sad and to be completely honest... is if you read that, what I think I'm getting at is I don't know if everything I'm telling you guys is true. I don't know if I'm actually trying to give up drinking. I have this sinking feeling in myself that the last two nights is actually what I wanted rather than what I'm telling you guys I'm trying to avoid. That's probably why I'm being so defensive right now and so stubborn. Is that I've convinced myself that the last two nights were not a problem.
But you can talk to me in an hour and I might have a completely different mindset. I'm all over the place these days.
But you can talk to me in an hour and I might have a completely different mindset. I'm all over the place these days.
I think you know you have a bright future for yourself and you're wisely working on the problem of how drinking fits in with that future. I think it's fortunate that there is something like SR to use as a resource, and I'm glad you found it.
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Posts: 391
Originally Posted by Anna
Paul, that's exactly right. Once again, your perspective is working one hundred percent. We're not judging you, we're really not. I think most, if not all of us, have been where you are. We understand the frustration and confusion. You're doing great and of course things are a bit overwhelming at this point. The last two nights were not a huge problem for you because you didn't get drunk. However, neither did you plan to drink on either of those nights.
So I fully admit that I fear that point. So that's why I'm still here, if I felt I had everything figured out I would not be here. I know that the last two nights I had control from over drinking, but I also know that I was planning on NOT drinking those two nights and I didn't accomplish that. So my problem right now is I'm getting this feeling that the last two nights were acceptable excuses... and I'm fearing the fact that my bar for acceptable excuses will continue to rise.
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Join Date: May 2011
Location: Albany NY
Posts: 1,212
Paul, I really have to tell you that you are quite intuitive, and I mean that sincerely. Good work you are doing all around.
I know what you are saying about raising the bar on acceptable excuses.
I did do that, only I called it "drawing a new line in the sand". I say that with benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
Good stuff - all these connections you are making. Keep going...
I know what you are saying about raising the bar on acceptable excuses.
I did do that, only I called it "drawing a new line in the sand". I say that with benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
Good stuff - all these connections you are making. Keep going...
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Join Date: Jun 2012
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Posts: 391
Originally Posted by wellwisher
Paul, I really have to tell you that you are quite intuitive, and I mean that sincerely. Good work you are doing all around.
I know what you are saying about raising the bar on acceptable excuses.
I did do that, only I called it "drawing a new line in the sand". I say that with benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
Good stuff - all these connections you are making. Keep going...
I know what you are saying about raising the bar on acceptable excuses.
I did do that, only I called it "drawing a new line in the sand". I say that with benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
Good stuff - all these connections you are making. Keep going...
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