The Big Book
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 437
If you cant or won't beleive in a Higher Power, the steps wont work, AA won't work. So in order to save yourself the time and trouble, just skip AA and keep looking for something that will work for you. A lot of people in AA that have trouble with the God concept end up going out and drinking again because they think it will never work for them and they just sort of either give up or try to do it on thier own. Tragic. Always tragic.
So find something that WILL work for you.
So find something that WILL work for you.
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Originally Posted by alaskasunshine 
If you cant or won't beleive in a Higher Power, the steps wont work, AA won't work. So in order to save yourself the time and trouble, just skip AA and keep looking for something that will work for you. A lot of people in AA that have trouble with the God concept end up going out and drinking again because they think it will never work for them and they just sort of either give up or try to do it on thier own. Tragic. Always tragic.
So find something that WILL work for you.
So find something that WILL work for you.
Om, Aum, Ohm...
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Punxsutawney/Pittsburgh
Posts: 4,797
I had a hard time with the dated language, the gender assumptions, the liberal use of the word "God." Hell, I even took issue that the first two members were a stock broker and a doctor. Although I had my aspirations, I was very firmly working class.
But alcohol had beat me, and I'd tried everything else. I had my reasons for wanting desperately to get sober. AA was it, the end of the line for me. I didn't know if it would work, but I was going to give it a shot. I humbled myself enough to get past my objections and see it through--all twelve steps. I decided that if it didn't work, I'd let the booze (and the drugs) kill me. Or I'd take a short cut. Didn't matter because it did work.
As to the HP objections, I like how keith put it:
Or Gift of Desperation.
My concept of a HP doesn't conform to any religious representation of a HP, though it does give me a tolerance and acceptance of those who have found strength and hope in those directions. Simply put, it's given me the humility to accept that I don't know it all. That doesn't mean I don't get into plenty of present-day tangles--but I don't demand that my seventy-two year old Big Book is rewritten for political correctness. As is, it taught me things I may not have found in easier to swallow language.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
But alcohol had beat me, and I'd tried everything else. I had my reasons for wanting desperately to get sober. AA was it, the end of the line for me. I didn't know if it would work, but I was going to give it a shot. I humbled myself enough to get past my objections and see it through--all twelve steps. I decided that if it didn't work, I'd let the booze (and the drugs) kill me. Or I'd take a short cut. Didn't matter because it did work.
As to the HP objections, I like how keith put it:
Originally Posted by keithj
Call it God, call it my Better Nature, call it my True Self. Whatever it is, it worked a miracle in my life. I've never had to consider a drink since. That is what AA is about.
My concept of a HP doesn't conform to any religious representation of a HP, though it does give me a tolerance and acceptance of those who have found strength and hope in those directions. Simply put, it's given me the humility to accept that I don't know it all. That doesn't mean I don't get into plenty of present-day tangles--but I don't demand that my seventy-two year old Big Book is rewritten for political correctness. As is, it taught me things I may not have found in easier to swallow language.
Peace & Love,
Sugah
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Join Date: Dec 2011
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Posts: 8,997
Originally Posted by Elisabeth888
I heard a lady with a lot of sobriety say that when she first came to AA she borrowed her sponsor's Higher Power.
I've heard that too...I didn't have much problem with finding a power greater than myself....I was a physically, emotionally, financially and spritually bankrupt near-death drunk. I didn't have to struggle with that one.
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Bridgeport, CT
Posts: 14
Check out the book Waiting: A Nonbeliever's Higher Power, by Marya Hornbacher. It addresses exactly your question of how atheists and agnostics can work the steps. It's what I've been doing. PM me if you need any additional details.
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 1,635
Originally Posted by Sapling
I've heard that too...I didn't have much problem with finding a power greater than myself....I was a physically, emotionally, financially and spritually bankrupt near-death drunk. I didn't have to struggle with that one.
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Originally Posted by Elisabeth888
I know what you mean. I have the marvelous results of what happens when I try to run the show. And it ain't pretty.
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Originally Posted by flamingredhair
So far I am finding the AA agnostics group to my satisfaction.
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Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Anchorage, Alaska
Posts: 437
Originally Posted by ClimbingBack
Check out the book Waiting: A Nonbeliever's Higher Power, by Marya Hornbacher. It addresses exactly your question of how atheists and agnostics can work the steps. It's what I've been doing. PM me if you need any additional details.
Thanks, I assume I can find it on amazon?
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Join Date: Apr 2007
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Posts: 211,444
we have a forum for those who are working a Secular Recovery in a 12-Step program, for those interested in that approach 
Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
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Secular 12 Step Recovery - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
D
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Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Alabama
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Flamingredhair, you don't HAVE to use AA to quit drinking. There are all kinds of people that don't you can find many of them on this site. The reason I have chosen to give AA a try this time is because it offers me a set structure and a group of sober people I can be around. Try to think about the posistives you can get out of AA. If you still don't like it quit going. Wish you the best.
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Originally Posted by UofI2008
Flamingredhair, you don't HAVE to use AA to quit drinking. There are all kinds of people that don't you can find many of them on this site. The reason I have chosen to give AA a try this time is because it offers me a set structure and a group of sober people I can be around. Try to think about the posistives you can get out of AA. If you still don't like it quit going. Wish you the best.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: WI
Posts: 228
Originally Posted by flamingredhair
The chapter We Agnostics basically says, "Don't knock faith until you tried it." It makes clear the God is a God of your own understanding.
That is my point. It basically says that it is not okay to NOT believe in some sort of higher power.
But the fact is, there are a lot of people who DON'T. So, where does that leave them?
I'm not trying to get people worked up or **** anyone off. This is a subject I take very seriously. Even if I did believe in a higher power, which I don't, it would be an extremely personal thing. I could never wear my religion on my sleeve nor could I ever see myself telling someone without it that there is no hope for them.
That is my point. It basically says that it is not okay to NOT believe in some sort of higher power.
But the fact is, there are a lot of people who DON'T. So, where does that leave them?
I'm not trying to get people worked up or **** anyone off. This is a subject I take very seriously. Even if I did believe in a higher power, which I don't, it would be an extremely personal thing. I could never wear my religion on my sleeve nor could I ever see myself telling someone without it that there is no hope for them.
That was the path that I had to take, had to drink myself into a place where I was willing to try something that challenged what I believed at the time. Had to exhaust my other options before allowing my mind to be free enough to consider and try a different approach.
As far as god (or whatever the individual drunk wants to call it), yes, this absolutely is a spiritual program. The point of the program and steps is to lead you to find a power that will relieve your alcoholism. I'd be doing you a disservice by telling you ignore this, as its the point of the whole deal. However, all that is asked is to be open minded to the possibility of something out there that has more power than you or I.
Last edited by EricL; 12-08-2011 at 06:05 PM. Reason: .
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Originally Posted by flamingredhair
If you happen to be an athiest a higher power doesn't exist either. The whole idea that a higher power can be anything (even a door knob, I was told... WTH?) seems a bit like trickery.
I've been attending an agnostics meeting and a couple of weeks ago our local AA president (if that is the correct title) came to visit and told the facilitator that he shouldn't call it an AA meeting because God has been removed from the equation. That really bothered me. We have enough religious exclusion in the United States in our politics.
Again, AA should be about recovery, not our religious beliefs.
I've been attending an agnostics meeting and a couple of weeks ago our local AA president (if that is the correct title) came to visit and told the facilitator that he shouldn't call it an AA meeting because God has been removed from the equation. That really bothered me. We have enough religious exclusion in the United States in our politics.
Again, AA should be about recovery, not our religious beliefs.
I have belonged to an Agnostics-Atheist group in a large metropolitan area for 23 years of sobriety and never in that period did someone come from AA and tell us that we did not belong in AA. Our group has consistently been listed in the local AA directory. The Big Book has a chapter called "We Agnostics". I seriously question the propriety of anyone representing the AA administration telling an Agnostics-Atheists group that it did not "belong" in AA. AA is open to all. The only requirement for membership is the willingness to stop drinking. This says it all, whether you are a Buddhist, a Jew, a Mohammedan, a Confucianist, a Taoist, an Agnostic or an Atheist. I believe that Bill Wilson would agree with this.
W.
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Join Date: Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by wpainterw
FlamingRedHair:
I have belonged to an Agnostics-Atheist group in a large metropolitan area for 23 years of sobriety and never in that period did someone come from AA and tell us that we did not belong in AA. Our group has consistently been listed in the local AA directory. The Big Book has a chapter called "We Agnostics". I seriously question the propriety of anyone representing the AA administration telling an Agnostics-Atheists group that it did not "belong" in AA. AA is open to all. The only requirement for membership is the willingness to stop drinking. This says it all, whether you are a Buddhist, a Jew, a Mohammedan, a Confucianist, a Taoist, an Agnostic or an Atheist. I believe that Bill Wilson would agree with this.
W.
I have belonged to an Agnostics-Atheist group in a large metropolitan area for 23 years of sobriety and never in that period did someone come from AA and tell us that we did not belong in AA. Our group has consistently been listed in the local AA directory. The Big Book has a chapter called "We Agnostics". I seriously question the propriety of anyone representing the AA administration telling an Agnostics-Atheists group that it did not "belong" in AA. AA is open to all. The only requirement for membership is the willingness to stop drinking. This says it all, whether you are a Buddhist, a Jew, a Mohammedan, a Confucianist, a Taoist, an Agnostic or an Atheist. I believe that Bill Wilson would agree with this.
W.
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