mle-sober

Perhaps the way to inform others that there are many programs and methods for recovery is to just do exactly that. It doesn't have to happen in a way that specifically singles out AA for critique. It's rude and tiresome. If you don't like AA, by all means, don't go.

As far as not being "told about other options" -- all it takes is reaching out and doing a very minor amount of online searching. Recovery, by it's very nature, is something that you have to discover for yourself. It's not something that gets handed to you.

AA has a higher profile than other programs because it has been around a long time. And it's been around a long time because it works for many people. I'm glad there are other programs that work better for people that have a hard time in AA. But wouldn't it be strange if I went to those programs and then came back here and kvetched about what I didn't like about them?

If another program works for you, share your experience! That's wonderful. And I'm sure that there are many who would benefit and appreciate it. But you don't have to make it a negative statement about AA. Just make it a positive statement about your other programs you have experience with.

doorknob

Yes, in some instances.

stone

Nelco, the other reason for the anti-AA threads might be that people felt the AA-ers were taking over SR at one time. It felt like that to me anyway, these types of threads, despite seeming extreme, may help push things back into balance. This is just my opinion.

I also agree with Dee, that if a person thinks willpower is enough to beat an addiciton they are heading for trouble and that some kind of surrender is needed.
This is a kind of AA thing too, how many times have people tried to do it on willpower and failed? So how can you do it then? By surrender and a lot of changes to how you live....I dunno, I am still trying.

doorknob

Let's flip tha script here... you have an addiction problem and are a devout Christian. You go to an agency to meet with counselors who are supposedly professionals at dealing with addiction. They tell you their program is based on the idea that one must give up their belief in god to get well. You say, "but I am a Christian". They reply "well atleast remain open to the idea that there is no god". To make a long story short, everywhere you turn you are having this concept pushed on you, even on internet forums. But you know deep down in your heart of hearts that this is not your path. You may just want to proclaim it and express what you are feeling to anyone who might listen and understand.

doorknob

Does utilizing peer support and changing your perspective and perceptions negate willpower or just make it stronger?

stone

Well said, DK.

Atheists can do AA but they better not read the BB too often or they will end up feeling like jacking it in.
The book does not mention using Group of Drunks or Good Orderly Direction for God, these are things people have invented in order to do AA as atheists.
What the book does do is use the word God hundreds of times in a clearly Abrahamic Religions way...this is why I am always on the verge of leaving AA, which is a shame......for me the debate about AA or not, goes on in my head a lot!

stone

I was contrasting willpower Vs surrender, DK.

I wouldn't listen to me anyway, I keep drinking. I don't have any definite opinions. I am seeing my sponsor tomorrow and one minute I think I will tell him I will commit to AA 100% from now on and the next minute I am thinking I will tell him I am done with AA...so my views at this moment are not carved in stone.

mle-sober

I would just conclude that that program wasn't for me and I would look for other programs. I would focus on what does work for my own sobriety and recovery.

bugsworth

I think the problem with that mle-sober is that the program bleeds all over every thread. It is extremely hard to navigate thru the many posts that assume that the aa ideologies are facts. I do not subscribe to the ideology that we are powerless (aa ideology). I have posted this only to be told that perhaps I am not a "real" alcoholic. This is just one example of the challenges faced by non aa people. Bringing to light the reason why aa retentions rates are so low is not bashing it is presenting facts. Many people come to SR with questions about aa...is the opinion of aa members the only ones that count? There are always two sides to every story.

Stone...I hope you work out conflict with aa...sitting on the fence can be painful.

doorknob

The longer I stay clean, the more clear it becomes for me.

doorknob

According to SMART Recovery and REBT, and even LifeRing, recovery from addiction has everything to do with logic and willpower. It's not about surrendering, but about challenging your beliefs that are irrational. I think Spock would have concurred.

Sara9009

This thread is kind of interesting to me because I left this forum a few years ago because everything I said I felt like was being followed up with "You need to go to AA or you will fail." I haven't re-read the old threads but that was my impression at the time.

As far as discussing other programs if someone started a thread and said they didn't agree with guided imagery or my drinking troll. I would pretty much say "Okay, thanks. It's working just fine for me but that's just me and I don't think my way of doing it would work for everyone."

I think the more programs and ideas that we can give to newcomers the better. I have spoken with a lot of people who want to get sober but don't realize there is any option but AA and strongly disagree with the Program fundamentally. I know it works great for some people but other people need to know there are other options.

My sister has been sober for years through AA and NA. However, she had a sponsee who wasn't adapting to the program and I told her I was going to email her info on Life Ring, Smart, Etcetera and said it might be a good idea to have a simple knowledge of these programs since it didn't matter how people got sober just that they did and perhaps she could give them other options. You would have thought I had just offered for her to come over and shoot up meth and heroin (her DOC). I emailed them to her and she replied saying they were deleted and if anyone was serious they would know AA is the only true path. (I hope that didn't veer off topic too much just wanted to say what my personal experience IRL has been).

doorknob

Sara, I don't think you could be any more on topic.

Unfortunately, I have found this attitude to be pervasive among 12-Step groups and most treatment providers.

yeahgr8

Sara, great post! Objectively i totally see what you mean, but at the same time i do kind of understand where she is coming from, i would be the same. If i had found something that worked for me and i had to totally believe (have some sort of faith) that it worked for it to work, and it kept me sober where i could not achieve this for myself before finding the program...yeah i would be fanatical about it too and would cease to be objective about it all.

I'm going to do the AA route and treat it seriously, i've got a little time under my belt and i want to do it. I hope that i will not be so fanatical though and will still be able to be open to other recovery programs, let's see in a year i guess:-)

Dee74

I never done any of those programmes, or AA, DK so I dunno whether my way is antithetical or not LOL.

I just know for me, logic and willpower got me nowhere.

There was no logic or willpower in spending my last $20 on booze, but I'd do it...no logic or willpower in drinking heavily the afternoon before a gig, or the night before an exam, or at weddings, funerals, or professional occasions and making an ass of myself but I did all that too, many times.

If any of those programmes work on that alcoholic lack of logic, self indulgence and disregard of consequence? then great.

What did work, for me, was ceasing to fight. I call it surrender, cos I need the humility but it's probably just as good as seen as 'peace' I guess.

Whatever you call it, I admitted I was an alcoholic and accepted there was no way ever for me to drink alcohol. or do drugs, without it biting me in the ass. I stopped fighting myself and I started to put all my efforts into working on those underlying 'issues' that first led me to drink.

Seems to be workin'

D

mle-sober

I guess I don't understand. If someone told me I wasn't real alcoholic I'd be thrilled to death! Especially if they knew what they were talking about! (:

OK - Just kidding. I guess it seems to me that it's reasonable that in a forum this big with this many people working this hard to grow and change, that there are going to differences of opinion.

And I would hope that when there are, we can just say something to the effect of: "Gosh - I experience things differently than you."

If someone says that you are going about sobriety in the wrong way (ie: you're not recognizing that you're powerless over your addiction, per the AA concept) you could essentially disregard the person who made that comment to you. There are several people here that I just know we come from such a different place that I rarely read their comments. Much less take offense. I just disregard their posts.

I can understand that it'd be frustrating if you weren't interested in what AA has to offer and you felt you had a better way. Because AA is very prevalent. And I can understand wanting to make sure that the alternatives to AA are represented in the stickies. I can imagine that it'd be frustrating.

When I post and share something about my AA experience, I always try to include a mention that it's not the only way to sobriety. I see a lot of people here do that.

I think the most helpful thing to do is to focus on the positive aspects of your recovery program rather than on the negative aspects of other people's recovery program.

shaun00

mle......youve now got all the alcoholics running around thinking is that my posts she disregards.......lol..lol..lol..lol

believe me not many years ago i would have been convinced that post was directed at me.....was it.....me..me..me..me..me.

Your right of course.....there are lots of perceptions and ways of staying sober on here and it is a shame that it gets muddy sometimes.

Because im genuinely very interested in ALL methods.

But the upside is we all seem passionate about not taking that first drink.

you know im an AA guy.....i believe that the program has given me the ability to be open minded....

And thats my view........not everyones....but mine never the less.

trucker

bugsworth

I agree with you mle...I do and will continue to disregard what others say in regards to my opinions...but when they insist that my opinion is wrong....based upon a text book written by a man whose sole purpose was to help people not quit drinking but to be of maximum service to God I will take exception. aa has been and always will be a religious "spiritual" conversion which has nothing to do with an individuals ability to get and stay sober. I never said I had a better way...I have a different way one which requires personal responsibility...I urge people to find the power within...the power which we all as human possess. I appreciate your opinions on this matter...thank you for sharing.

lovinmenow

Hi all,
I thank all who responded to this thread. I feel that although AA was not for me, there are many other treatment options available. I have been about 95% sober for about a year now and I am thankful that even my relapses have not been to bad. AA works for many people but I just felt that for someone who was not so "religious" I needed a better way to freedom. I am thankful for all on the SR site and also from many books I have read.

It seems like the popular idea is that a. the only way to cure alcoholism is to go to AA. and b. alcoholism is a disease.

I feel that AA is a cure to many and hey, if that is what it takes folks, go go go! As for the disease part? Sorry that is where I cut if off. I do not think this is a disease. I MY VIEW, this is a habit or a psychological instrument that can be treated, stopped and forgotten about, like smoking, nail biting, overeating and such. After reading "The Alcoholism and Addiction Cure" I am real glad that I finally realized that this "alcoholic" label does not have to be forever.

mle-sober

Gosh, I experience things very differently from you!

:ghug