One Year & Over Part 66
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,471
Hi Itch
We had to enforce the politics rule more strongly over the past couple of years cos it's such a flashpoint issue these days.
It was not what I wanted to do - I prefer self governance in forums like this - but it had to be done - it was interfering with our primary mission.
I see and appreciate your upset, but I've not seen that happening with religious posts.
Rule two is about posts of an overly religious nature such that they interfere with our primary purpose which is 'offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends'.
Its not meant to be 'against' religious posts as a whole.
Many members here have religion or spirituality entwined in their recovery method.
Many more folks here are members of faith.
Many are not. We try to be tolerant of both sides.
The best I can offer you myself is a promise to be mindful and try to use best wishes rather than 'prayers' posting to people like yourself who I know prefer to keep things secular.
If you see me post 'prayers' to others I hope you'll understand I do that because one, I believe in prayer, and two I know prayers are welcome helpful and reassuring in those cases.
You can absolutely use the ignore function on anyone you find annoying for this, or anyone other reason.
If you can figure out a practicable way to take the mentions of prayers, God and angels like this and not tick anyone off in doing so, my hats off to ya.
I don't think there's a way to do that.
If it's still bugging you, I encourage you to take it up with Admin - remember, I just work here
Dee
Moderator
SR
We had to enforce the politics rule more strongly over the past couple of years cos it's such a flashpoint issue these days.
It was not what I wanted to do - I prefer self governance in forums like this - but it had to be done - it was interfering with our primary mission.
I see and appreciate your upset, but I've not seen that happening with religious posts.
Rule two is about posts of an overly religious nature such that they interfere with our primary purpose which is 'offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends'.
Its not meant to be 'against' religious posts as a whole.
Many members here have religion or spirituality entwined in their recovery method.
Many more folks here are members of faith.
Many are not. We try to be tolerant of both sides.
The best I can offer you myself is a promise to be mindful and try to use best wishes rather than 'prayers' posting to people like yourself who I know prefer to keep things secular.
If you see me post 'prayers' to others I hope you'll understand I do that because one, I believe in prayer, and two I know prayers are welcome helpful and reassuring in those cases.
You can absolutely use the ignore function on anyone you find annoying for this, or anyone other reason.
If you can figure out a practicable way to take the mentions of prayers, God and angels like this and not tick anyone off in doing so, my hats off to ya.
I don't think there's a way to do that.
If it's still bugging you, I encourage you to take it up with Admin - remember, I just work here
Dee
Moderator
SR
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,471
Btw that was not the reason the no politics rule was policed more strenuously.
It was after a lot of fights in a lot of threads - a lot of posts removed so you might not have seen them Itch.
I don't even remember you and Gilmer fighting over anything.
Having this made one PS I have to be personally done with the subject, cos it's not what I give up my time here for.
I'm sorry you're upset but I can't see any mass changes happening of that nature Itch.
...and that's not because I'm a Christian myself - you know that's not how I roll - I try to be respectful of all beliefs.
You're gonna have to follow your heart Itch - I hope you'll manage to live with it, get past it, and stick around
Like Mags said, you're a good man - we'd be the poorer for you leaving
D
It was after a lot of fights in a lot of threads - a lot of posts removed so you might not have seen them Itch.
I don't even remember you and Gilmer fighting over anything.
Having this made one PS I have to be personally done with the subject, cos it's not what I give up my time here for.
I'm sorry you're upset but I can't see any mass changes happening of that nature Itch.
...and that's not because I'm a Christian myself - you know that's not how I roll - I try to be respectful of all beliefs.
You're gonna have to follow your heart Itch - I hope you'll manage to live with it, get past it, and stick around
Like Mags said, you're a good man - we'd be the poorer for you leaving
D
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Your second post there was this:
"Unfortunately my idea above has proven unworkable.
It's become necessary to tighten the rule back to the letter of rule 2.
Quote:
2. Outside Agendas: No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends. This is our primary purpose. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere...
No politics at all on the board, please,
Dee74
Moderator
SR "
Source:https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-politics.html
I second that for both!
"Unfortunately my idea above has proven unworkable.
It's become necessary to tighten the rule back to the letter of rule 2.
Quote:
2. Outside Agendas: No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends. This is our primary purpose. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere...
No politics at all on the board, please,
Dee74
Moderator
SR "
Source:https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-politics.html
I second that for both!
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Dee,
I'll write a letter to the Admins later.
Where did you get any idea I was leaving? I don't roll like that. Not being happy is not the same as being angry. Like in the military, when a reg was wrong, or adversely affecting morale, we went up the chain of command with good workable solutions, as no one gets the staff officers to sign off if the research, source documents, and rationale isn't laid out and done for them. Don't worry, some of my best friends have been ministers because I have read and studied the books of all the large religions and can debate with them without their worrying about harming my beliefs.
I have the utmost respect for the beliefs of those with the utmost respect for mine. And the reverse. I can work with you and the folks here. I've dealt with war and generals and stood in front of classes of more than a hundred a day. I can write a letter. And press on if given a fair hearing.
I'll write a letter to the Admins later.
Where did you get any idea I was leaving? I don't roll like that. Not being happy is not the same as being angry. Like in the military, when a reg was wrong, or adversely affecting morale, we went up the chain of command with good workable solutions, as no one gets the staff officers to sign off if the research, source documents, and rationale isn't laid out and done for them. Don't worry, some of my best friends have been ministers because I have read and studied the books of all the large religions and can debate with them without their worrying about harming my beliefs.
I have the utmost respect for the beliefs of those with the utmost respect for mine. And the reverse. I can work with you and the folks here. I've dealt with war and generals and stood in front of classes of more than a hundred a day. I can write a letter. And press on if given a fair hearing.
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,471
Originally Posted by Itchy 
Your second post there was this:
"Unfortunately my idea above has proven unworkable.
It's become necessary to tighten the rule back to the letter of rule 2.
Quote:
2. Outside Agendas: No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends. This is our primary purpose. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere...
No politics at all on the board, please,
Dee74
Moderator
SR "
Source:https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-politics.html
I second that for both!
"Unfortunately my idea above has proven unworkable.
It's become necessary to tighten the rule back to the letter of rule 2.
Quote:
2. Outside Agendas: No posts of an overtly political or religious nature OR posts promoting advocacy of particular personal, medical, legal, religious, political, or non-profit causes. The forums are intended for offering mutual personal support related to recovery from addiction or recovery for family and friends. This is our primary purpose. Debating controversial subjects should be taken elsewhere...
No politics at all on the board, please,
Dee74
Moderator
SR "
Source:https://www.soberrecovery.com/forums...-politics.html
I second that for both!
C'mon don't quote me out of context.
I've already explained the reason for increased rigidity on the politics rule and why I don't think a similar rigidity on the religious rule is either necessary or workable.
The rules are designed to be inclusive- we want everyone to feel welcome here, even when they don't always agree on everything.
I'm worried already that some people may feel less welcome in the thread.
I'd hate that to happen to anyone - no matter what side they're on or what they believe.
Your objections have been noted Itch. Yours too Andy...
but because this thread is about recovery and support, I'm gonna leave it there
D
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 28,690
good thread this...
Itch- I am not so much overwhelmed, but experiencing differing feelings based on a memory narrative that is changing.
Kicking and screaming, I might add. I suppose it is human nature t cling on to what we know- even if it is crap. I think I am gonna be okay....
not looking forward to spending a week in hospital- even waiting for my final ok, after being in hospital for one night- I was literally pacing the cooridors...to sit inert for a week, sheesh!
I am planning a mot of brain stuff to do....also I know they have hundreds of dvd's, and portable DVD players- which are in storage somewhere...the hospital being connected up to lots of channels- movies etc....but a lot of doco's in there too, if I can use the exercise bike....
Itch- I am not so much overwhelmed, but experiencing differing feelings based on a memory narrative that is changing.
Kicking and screaming, I might add. I suppose it is human nature t cling on to what we know- even if it is crap. I think I am gonna be okay....
not looking forward to spending a week in hospital- even waiting for my final ok, after being in hospital for one night- I was literally pacing the cooridors...to sit inert for a week, sheesh!
I am planning a mot of brain stuff to do....also I know they have hundreds of dvd's, and portable DVD players- which are in storage somewhere...the hospital being connected up to lots of channels- movies etc....but a lot of doco's in there too, if I can use the exercise bike....
Magsie
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: UK
Posts: 26,695
PJ, a week! It can seem a long time in hospital. Hopefully there will be some good films or documentaries and of course us!, hopefully it will have good wi-fi, or is that the norm where you are. Ours can be temperamental!
I’m with Sassy, I’m grateful of everybody here.
I’m with Sassy, I’m grateful of everybody here.
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,847
PJ, I feel for ya! I was pretty much a prisoner in my own home for those 5 days I had to keep my head down. You'll get thru this and be even stronger for it.
Well, I got my hospital bill yesterday. I have insurance, but I knew that my high deductible would be a problem. I guess the good news is that anything else this year is fully covered, but I'm still on the hook for $6500. The hospital does have a monthly payment plan, so I'll be calling later this morning to explore my options. Just trying to deal with everything as it comes, but it's been tough. So very grateful that I do not have to deal with drinking on top of it all.
Well, I got my hospital bill yesterday. I have insurance, but I knew that my high deductible would be a problem. I guess the good news is that anything else this year is fully covered, but I'm still on the hook for $6500. The hospital does have a monthly payment plan, so I'll be calling later this morning to explore my options. Just trying to deal with everything as it comes, but it's been tough. So very grateful that I do not have to deal with drinking on top of it all.
Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: German Village, Columbus with my love ♥
Posts: 88,530
Sounds like we have the same deductible FBL.....it's good and bad....I mean that's the year as you said, and they let you pay it off in smaller amounts I hope. 
I need to talk to Lillian....she does this for a living, because no matter how hard I tried, I could not get cheaper health ins that would actually cover me. Oh well...I will learn.
Meanwhile I am just so glad you are recovering well love. ♥
I need to talk to Lillian....she does this for a living, because no matter how hard I tried, I could not get cheaper health ins that would actually cover me. Oh well...I will learn.
Meanwhile I am just so glad you are recovering well love.
♥
non-drinker
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA
Posts: 13,847
Well, that went pretty smooth. I paid half the bill up front and I'm able to do the other half in 18 monthly installments. Much more manageable that way. Just have to cut back on the baseball cards for awhile. 
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Great outcome FBL! We take our vision for granted until we have issues with it. I know I did. Four surgeries later (a cataract and Lasik on each) I am better off than before.2 MY near vision has improved a bit too.
Mags and Sassy, I 'll second that.
PJ,
That's what I call overwhelmed when I feel that way. You will make it fine through the wait and recovery. You have become your own best advocate. Don't underestimate yourself bud. Many here would not have made it through your first year. But in common we are all destroyed by alcohol and put that down for the duration. My admiration for your unceasing battle against self pity parties and using your art and your recovery to put everything in perspective. You're pretty impressive, and we are here for when you're a bit uncertain and afraid.
Our uncle died this morning after going downhill for a month from just old age at 89. THey live around the corner from us. He didn't suffer, and had time to hug everyone's neck. Our aunt was talking to him, went to get him a cup of coffee, and he was gone when she came back. One of his sons is a minister and helped us with our parent's funeral service. We held a memorial service for them and let them do their thing. Our last wills specifically state that no religion mentioned at all. No burial as we are being burned and scattered. The memorial service will not be held with our bodies but some time later if they want. My bet is that with no public display necessary immediately, that none will happen as we would prefer, but as we told our son, who shares our beliefs, if he wants to have one have at it. Just make it folks that knew us, let them tell stories of our outrageous life. And that we had a blast in life, and we will not be watching from above. He'd just thanked me for keeping him away from the many Sunday school offers and peer pressuring when he was growing up. Neither of us will treat this life as unimportant and only a rehearsal for another life. For those that do, what if I am right? This is how we grieve. No one needs to believe as we do, to share in the loss of a really good guy ecumenically. He will be missed. Gotta go give our condolences to our Aunts and cousins.
Peace.
Mags and Sassy, I 'll second that.
PJ,
That's what I call overwhelmed when I feel that way. You will make it fine through the wait and recovery. You have become your own best advocate. Don't underestimate yourself bud. Many here would not have made it through your first year. But in common we are all destroyed by alcohol and put that down for the duration. My admiration for your unceasing battle against self pity parties and using your art and your recovery to put everything in perspective. You're pretty impressive, and we are here for when you're a bit uncertain and afraid.
Our uncle died this morning after going downhill for a month from just old age at 89. THey live around the corner from us. He didn't suffer, and had time to hug everyone's neck. Our aunt was talking to him, went to get him a cup of coffee, and he was gone when she came back. One of his sons is a minister and helped us with our parent's funeral service. We held a memorial service for them and let them do their thing. Our last wills specifically state that no religion mentioned at all. No burial as we are being burned and scattered. The memorial service will not be held with our bodies but some time later if they want. My bet is that with no public display necessary immediately, that none will happen as we would prefer, but as we told our son, who shares our beliefs, if he wants to have one have at it. Just make it folks that knew us, let them tell stories of our outrageous life. And that we had a blast in life, and we will not be watching from above. He'd just thanked me for keeping him away from the many Sunday school offers and peer pressuring when he was growing up. Neither of us will treat this life as unimportant and only a rehearsal for another life. For those that do, what if I am right? This is how we grieve. No one needs to believe as we do, to share in the loss of a really good guy ecumenically. He will be missed. Gotta go give our condolences to our Aunts and cousins.
Peace.
Re-Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 7,583
Thanks Dee. 
Thanks Mags.
He really was a good guy. He was a heavy equipment operator his whole life specializing in large trackhoes and backhoes.
It's 70° today, and over 75° tomorrow! 75F = 23.88°C.
Thanks Mags.
He really was a good guy. He was a heavy equipment operator his whole life specializing in large trackhoes and backhoes.
It's 70° today, and over 75° tomorrow! 75F = 23.88°C.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 28,690
Itch- your Uncle passed in a good way I think.
I am going to do what my gran did- I am gonna donate my remains to a medical school. Certainly with the biopolymer skin/skin hybrid-(looks like uncooked turkey skin lots of dots) it will be of interest. That way- no mess, no fuss. And free!
My plotting has worked into tricking the old- resisting bit of me into changing.
Now having my studio 'in my face'..instead of in a side room, where I can shut the door and 'do it tomorrow'- I am getting back into it.
First on the agenda- the burns garment art work. There is a pic and a narrative on it in CO March '16, btw. It had a lot of powerful words around it- relating to fear, pain, anger and the like. I have painted over this and now it is work in progress....to turn it into a positive piece- for exhibition in one of the hospitals community galleries when I exhibit 6 or so works there in September. I transfer the changes to the art- to my changes in real life.
Very concrete I know- but hell, it works for me.
Glad your roving for homes stuff I at an end Itch.
I find the dynamic nature of this thread to be very productive- it shows it's contributors as having resilience, respect for others and the such positive stuff.
I admit (to myself?) I attend much less meetings now- I still do 1-2 a week, for support, for interacting with 'humans' and to remind myself of my commitment to my own recovery.
For what ever reason, I find most of the narrative to be unproductive- going around in a flat holding pattern without growth.
I do know some find meetings to be their place of safety- and will probably not grow- but will stay sober, and be content. I respect these guys and enjoy the meets...but
Well I am not content and must need, HAVE to push to keep up my cognitive and 'spiritual; growth.
Thank you all. You have been a wonderful audience.
I am going to do what my gran did- I am gonna donate my remains to a medical school. Certainly with the biopolymer skin/skin hybrid-(looks like uncooked turkey skin lots of dots) it will be of interest. That way- no mess, no fuss. And free!
My plotting has worked into tricking the old- resisting bit of me into changing.
Now having my studio 'in my face'..instead of in a side room, where I can shut the door and 'do it tomorrow'- I am getting back into it.
First on the agenda- the burns garment art work. There is a pic and a narrative on it in CO March '16, btw. It had a lot of powerful words around it- relating to fear, pain, anger and the like. I have painted over this and now it is work in progress....to turn it into a positive piece- for exhibition in one of the hospitals community galleries when I exhibit 6 or so works there in September. I transfer the changes to the art- to my changes in real life.
Very concrete I know- but hell, it works for me.
Glad your roving for homes stuff I at an end Itch.
I find the dynamic nature of this thread to be very productive- it shows it's contributors as having resilience, respect for others and the such positive stuff.
I admit (to myself?) I attend much less meetings now- I still do 1-2 a week, for support, for interacting with 'humans' and to remind myself of my commitment to my own recovery.
For what ever reason, I find most of the narrative to be unproductive- going around in a flat holding pattern without growth.
I do know some find meetings to be their place of safety- and will probably not grow- but will stay sober, and be content. I respect these guys and enjoy the meets...but
Well I am not content and must need, HAVE to push to keep up my cognitive and 'spiritual; growth.
Thank you all. You have been a wonderful audience.
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