Class of March 2013 Part 47
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,615
Dd, some new like you have a great counselor, smart move on both of your parts. I agree, if you go to counseling to "save" your marriage, it could well be too late. We don't go to counseling, j does for her anxiety and I've gone with her once or twice. But we have trusted friends we can bounce stuff off of. I encourage her to talk to her friends, I think it's important for us both to have people to talk to outside of each other.
Also a great idea to have someone who understands the nuances of an interracial marriage. As much as I like to think love is love and nothing else matters, the fact of the matter is people treat you different. Sometimes they don't mean to at all, but it happens nonetheless. I had to learn to not treat my OWN marriage different. As gay women, j and I had really conditioned ourselves to have low expectations of how people would treat us. Then some folks were wonderful. Some weren't. But we're learning to stand up for ourselves and our love as equal to others.
Gilmer I hope you got enough sleep.
I'd better get my butt to work! Then tonight I have bonsai club, yay!
Also a great idea to have someone who understands the nuances of an interracial marriage. As much as I like to think love is love and nothing else matters, the fact of the matter is people treat you different. Sometimes they don't mean to at all, but it happens nonetheless. I had to learn to not treat my OWN marriage different. As gay women, j and I had really conditioned ourselves to have low expectations of how people would treat us. Then some folks were wonderful. Some weren't. But we're learning to stand up for ourselves and our love as equal to others.
Gilmer I hope you got enough sleep.
I'd better get my butt to work! Then tonight I have bonsai club, yay!
Marchia in Aeternum
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Georgia
Posts: 11,094
I don't know what it is with me lately, either.
I renewed my facebook account because my future employer suggested checking some sites for places to rent.
I really laughed when I realized I had spent time on their and had not checked on my ex-wife. Yes, the one that is now dating(?) my ex best friend.
I did check on my last ladyfriend. One of the finest people I've ever known. Also, probably the finest woman I've ever known. Haven't seen her in 20 years. Maybe we can get a coffee. I don't know where it would go from there.
I renewed my facebook account because my future employer suggested checking some sites for places to rent.
I really laughed when I realized I had spent time on their and had not checked on my ex-wife. Yes, the one that is now dating(?) my ex best friend.
I did check on my last ladyfriend. One of the finest people I've ever known. Also, probably the finest woman I've ever known. Haven't seen her in 20 years. Maybe we can get a coffee. I don't know where it would go from there.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: ohio
Posts: 3,615
Sounds like you are on a positive roll, Trachy!
You can't bring back the past, but you can have a good future. I say look her up. If there's no spark, or if she's got a guy, be friends or don't. Nothing lost. No expectations, no worries.
So this might turn into more stream of consciousness...
There's a guy who used to have my job. He quit in a spectacular way, I can't remember what I've told you guys. Anyway, by nature of the way he left and the fact that it took them a year to hire me, I never met him. But the first couple of years I heard all about him. Our leadership styles were compared, our presentation styles, etc. at first I felt I had these big shoes to fill. Then I realized at some point we were similar in some ways, different in others, and that was just fine. Folks seem to be happy with how I run the place, after almost 10 years so it's fine. (Plus, self doubt has a way of disappearing with sober time, thank goodness)
So I never met him, but kind of felt like I knew him, ya know? Then one of his kids was in a program of mine once. Told me all about her dad and seemed to know allll about why he wasn't working here anymore. Then his wife booked me for a program, turns out she's a local teacher. So over the years I got to know even more about the guy.
Well last week, I'm pretty sure I did tell you this part, last week the guy I never met but knew pretty well, who obviously I had a lot in common with by nature of our strange little shared job, passed away. I heard he had taken his own life.
Two days later was the anniversary of my own mothers death. To this day we don't know if mom died on accident or on purpose. Toxicology tests don't tell you that part.
Of course this all set off a lot of sympathy for his family, but also some selfish thoughts too. I got flashbacks again. No surprise there. I was SUPER worried about his kids. His wife had gotten a divorce, but did his kids find him? Probably not, but that worried me big time.
So then his obituary came out. He was my age. Almost to the month.
Then in another wierd parallel, his grandfather was a huge figure in the bonsai club in our town. C was raised by his grandparents, so the old timers in bonsai club talked about it tonight. You know, checking on the grandmother, etc.
Then I heard it. They found booze and pills all over the house. They know exactly how he died, they just won't know exactly what did it until his toxicology report comes out.
Damn this disease. It will absolutely take our last breath if we let it.
The parallels are kind of haunting. I was the kind of alkie at the end who drank at work. I had horrible withdrawals if I went a whole day without drinking. Towards the end, I would even sometimes wake in the night with heart palpitations and crippling anxiety. Of course there was only one way to get rid of that... So there were even times I drank in the night.
I would sometimes sit in my office by myself at the end of the day wondering if he drank at work too. He might have. I know he did at the end, but did he before that? Did he look around that office when alone, wondering how he could have that great job in that beautiful place but still be so screwed up, like I used to?
So many parallels. But I got out of it. God I hope I stay out of it. Am I scared of relapse over this? No. If anything it makes me treasure my recovery more.
But I gotta admit I have a little bit of survivors guilt. I said this in the 24 hours thread, hope you don't mind the repeat: I dedicate the next sober 24 hours to Chris. If you'd like to do the same I'm sure the vibes will go somewhere good. Maybe to his family.
You can't bring back the past, but you can have a good future. I say look her up. If there's no spark, or if she's got a guy, be friends or don't. Nothing lost. No expectations, no worries.
So this might turn into more stream of consciousness...
There's a guy who used to have my job. He quit in a spectacular way, I can't remember what I've told you guys. Anyway, by nature of the way he left and the fact that it took them a year to hire me, I never met him. But the first couple of years I heard all about him. Our leadership styles were compared, our presentation styles, etc. at first I felt I had these big shoes to fill. Then I realized at some point we were similar in some ways, different in others, and that was just fine. Folks seem to be happy with how I run the place, after almost 10 years so it's fine. (Plus, self doubt has a way of disappearing with sober time, thank goodness)
So I never met him, but kind of felt like I knew him, ya know? Then one of his kids was in a program of mine once. Told me all about her dad and seemed to know allll about why he wasn't working here anymore. Then his wife booked me for a program, turns out she's a local teacher. So over the years I got to know even more about the guy.
Well last week, I'm pretty sure I did tell you this part, last week the guy I never met but knew pretty well, who obviously I had a lot in common with by nature of our strange little shared job, passed away. I heard he had taken his own life.
Two days later was the anniversary of my own mothers death. To this day we don't know if mom died on accident or on purpose. Toxicology tests don't tell you that part.
Of course this all set off a lot of sympathy for his family, but also some selfish thoughts too. I got flashbacks again. No surprise there. I was SUPER worried about his kids. His wife had gotten a divorce, but did his kids find him? Probably not, but that worried me big time.
So then his obituary came out. He was my age. Almost to the month.
Then in another wierd parallel, his grandfather was a huge figure in the bonsai club in our town. C was raised by his grandparents, so the old timers in bonsai club talked about it tonight. You know, checking on the grandmother, etc.
Then I heard it. They found booze and pills all over the house. They know exactly how he died, they just won't know exactly what did it until his toxicology report comes out.
Damn this disease. It will absolutely take our last breath if we let it.
The parallels are kind of haunting. I was the kind of alkie at the end who drank at work. I had horrible withdrawals if I went a whole day without drinking. Towards the end, I would even sometimes wake in the night with heart palpitations and crippling anxiety. Of course there was only one way to get rid of that... So there were even times I drank in the night.
I would sometimes sit in my office by myself at the end of the day wondering if he drank at work too. He might have. I know he did at the end, but did he before that? Did he look around that office when alone, wondering how he could have that great job in that beautiful place but still be so screwed up, like I used to?
So many parallels. But I got out of it. God I hope I stay out of it. Am I scared of relapse over this? No. If anything it makes me treasure my recovery more.
But I gotta admit I have a little bit of survivors guilt. I said this in the 24 hours thread, hope you don't mind the repeat: I dedicate the next sober 24 hours to Chris. If you'd like to do the same I'm sure the vibes will go somewhere good. Maybe to his family.
Administrator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 211,481
I'm sorry for everyone who loved and knew Chris We.
I don't really know why some of us make it and some don't. I could have been dead a million times - I'm sure we all could.
All I can tell you is I believe some of us make it through in order to help others struggling.
You have a good life We - but you've worked hard and earned it all. Please don't feel guilty for doing the right things
D
I don't really know why some of us make it and some don't. I could have been dead a million times - I'm sure we all could.
All I can tell you is I believe some of us make it through in order to help others struggling.
You have a good life We - but you've worked hard and earned it all. Please don't feel guilty for doing the right things
D
Living and Loving Life at Last
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: gods own country
Posts: 12,171
We, I am sending a huge hug to you, survivors guilt is not something trivial.
The parallels with and commonalities across your paths are strange, and I will happily dedicate my 24 to Chris' family and send healing thoughts their way.
I have my own survivors guilt issues. I know when I heard the news that my exh had died I spent a long time wondering whether things might have been different if he had been able to acknowledge his drinking and his depression. He wouldn't deal with the depression and wouldn't accept his addiction. I know I needed to save myself, but for a long time ( in a small part of me still) I feel my freedom came at his expense. Oh, I know we are all orchestrators of our own lives to a point, and he had a responsibility to himself to live his life the best he could. But always a part of me wonders if I gave up too easily, quit instead of fighting harder. The biggest loudest part of me says 'he[[ no, that drunken ass would have dragged you down with him, worn you old before your time and stole your best years if you'd let him' and you know what - she does have a point!
DD having trained ( and qualified!) as a counsellor, I totally approve the talking therapy. If more people we able to access counselling there would be less reliance on medication or self medicating.
I find it strange that people can work at improving their physical health but shy away from improving their mental health.
It's a good idea to be prepared for the issues that may arise from being in an interracial relationship, it doesn't seem to be such an issue in the uk, but as with those who judge same sex relationships there are bigots.
'Did you mum tell you about c....'s youngest? Seems he isn't into girls. Likes boys'
'And?.....'
'No and. Just... well, he won't be getting married or anything. Least not to a girl anyway'
'And?....'
The above a brief conversation with my father the other day. He would have so loved to embellish and pontificate but I refused to be drawn. I just left him holding his bias until it embarrassed him into changing the subject completely.
It says a lot about how much I have changed as well, at one time I would have been hanging out for a row about his ignorance, instead I left it. I am definitely growing as a person in my sobriety!
Duff, I thought at the time you wrote of the row that something must have pushed your buttons! Yeah, what We said! But kudos to you sweetie for having the bigger set of danglers and apologising!
Trachy, what Sass said!
Does anyone keep in touch with Marcher? I know she has been busy with her other site but would love to know how she is doing. I had an email at one point, but lost my contacts.
Hugs all round and a Fab Friday daaarlinks. Xx
The parallels with and commonalities across your paths are strange, and I will happily dedicate my 24 to Chris' family and send healing thoughts their way.
I have my own survivors guilt issues. I know when I heard the news that my exh had died I spent a long time wondering whether things might have been different if he had been able to acknowledge his drinking and his depression. He wouldn't deal with the depression and wouldn't accept his addiction. I know I needed to save myself, but for a long time ( in a small part of me still) I feel my freedom came at his expense. Oh, I know we are all orchestrators of our own lives to a point, and he had a responsibility to himself to live his life the best he could. But always a part of me wonders if I gave up too easily, quit instead of fighting harder. The biggest loudest part of me says 'he[[ no, that drunken ass would have dragged you down with him, worn you old before your time and stole your best years if you'd let him' and you know what - she does have a point!
DD having trained ( and qualified!) as a counsellor, I totally approve the talking therapy. If more people we able to access counselling there would be less reliance on medication or self medicating.
I find it strange that people can work at improving their physical health but shy away from improving their mental health.
It's a good idea to be prepared for the issues that may arise from being in an interracial relationship, it doesn't seem to be such an issue in the uk, but as with those who judge same sex relationships there are bigots.
'Did you mum tell you about c....'s youngest? Seems he isn't into girls. Likes boys'
'And?.....'
'No and. Just... well, he won't be getting married or anything. Least not to a girl anyway'
'And?....'
The above a brief conversation with my father the other day. He would have so loved to embellish and pontificate but I refused to be drawn. I just left him holding his bias until it embarrassed him into changing the subject completely.
It says a lot about how much I have changed as well, at one time I would have been hanging out for a row about his ignorance, instead I left it. I am definitely growing as a person in my sobriety!
Duff, I thought at the time you wrote of the row that something must have pushed your buttons! Yeah, what We said! But kudos to you sweetie for having the bigger set of danglers and apologising!
Trachy, what Sass said!
Does anyone keep in touch with Marcher? I know she has been busy with her other site but would love to know how she is doing. I had an email at one point, but lost my contacts.
Hugs all round and a Fab Friday daaarlinks. Xx
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
This home thread of ours is still awesome! I keep on learning so much as we all grow in sobriety.
(((We)))! I'm dedicating this 24 hours to Chris.
Toots, so often I get a great deal from your posts - today is yet another one.
Trachy, it sounds like you are moving on well in your sober life. We all love you
North, are you still hanging around?
Hi to all!
(((We)))! I'm dedicating this 24 hours to Chris.
Toots, so often I get a great deal from your posts - today is yet another one.
Trachy, it sounds like you are moving on well in your sober life. We all love you
North, are you still hanging around?
Hi to all!
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
I have no clue what to say--and I can't say anything anyway, because my friend doesn't know I know.
The girl has been running away to go off and get high since she was 11. Her mother has always chased after her.
My advice to her was always to stop enabling (and maybe that's why she hasn't said anything to me about the heroin); but when you throw an innocent baby into the picture all bets seem to be off.
They left everything to move to another state so this girl could have a fresh start when she got out of the juvenile detention center. Their situation now is unpleasant--and now the daughter has not only not made a fresh start, but she's deliberately gotten pregnant and become a heroin addict.
I am very upset. I have been a sounding board for years and always strived to be patient and supportive; but I am angry. It is not even my life--but I just feel angry and judgmental as hell, and I don't even know at what.
There is a baby coming. They can't evict her now.
The parents were in town this past week, and they stopped by to see us. Though my friend didn't mention anything except the high-risk pregnancy, her husband unloaded to my husband about the heroin addiction.
I think I will just send my friend an e-mail telling her that it was great to see them, and that I love her and will continue to pray for her daughter and the baby.
In October we are scheduled to go down and visit them for a couple of days.
I already feel more rational just having unloaded here. I will just send that little e-mail, then mainly be a listener if I am called upon.
The girl has been running away to go off and get high since she was 11. Her mother has always chased after her.
My advice to her was always to stop enabling (and maybe that's why she hasn't said anything to me about the heroin); but when you throw an innocent baby into the picture all bets seem to be off.
They left everything to move to another state so this girl could have a fresh start when she got out of the juvenile detention center. Their situation now is unpleasant--and now the daughter has not only not made a fresh start, but she's deliberately gotten pregnant and become a heroin addict.
I am very upset. I have been a sounding board for years and always strived to be patient and supportive; but I am angry. It is not even my life--but I just feel angry and judgmental as hell, and I don't even know at what.
There is a baby coming. They can't evict her now.
The parents were in town this past week, and they stopped by to see us. Though my friend didn't mention anything except the high-risk pregnancy, her husband unloaded to my husband about the heroin addiction.
I think I will just send my friend an e-mail telling her that it was great to see them, and that I love her and will continue to pray for her daughter and the baby.
In October we are scheduled to go down and visit them for a couple of days.
I already feel more rational just having unloaded here. I will just send that little e-mail, then mainly be a listener if I am called upon.
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Florida
Posts: 1,733
Gilmer, I get it. My long-time friend lost her 16 year old son this summer. It was heart wrenching, of course, but I had, and still do have, some resentment and judgment toward her and her husband. This boy had been in trouble for years and was, in fact, banned from my home. I was angry that they didn't intervene earlier, they also enabled this boy. He was murdered at a party in the middle of the night. He should not have been at that party.
My group of friends all share the same feelings that I do. For years we've been sounding boards for this mother and for years we've watched as she did nothing but enable her son's destructive (and often violent) behavior with excuse after excuse after excuse. None of us ever wished for this horrible result but I can't say we're surprised.
Anyway, I get it. We all agreed early on to be there to support her to the extent that we can, she did just go through the worst thing a mother can ever ever go through, and to hold our tongues. It's harder for some of us (I'm ok with it but I have 2 friends who fear they can't say nothing) as she has 3 younger kids. Kids we all love.
We, I've never experienced survivors guilt but Dee said it so eloquently (as usual). Yes, today is dedicated to C.
Trach, can't wait to take this journey with you! I hope only great things are awaiting you, my friend.
My group of friends all share the same feelings that I do. For years we've been sounding boards for this mother and for years we've watched as she did nothing but enable her son's destructive (and often violent) behavior with excuse after excuse after excuse. None of us ever wished for this horrible result but I can't say we're surprised.
Anyway, I get it. We all agreed early on to be there to support her to the extent that we can, she did just go through the worst thing a mother can ever ever go through, and to hold our tongues. It's harder for some of us (I'm ok with it but I have 2 friends who fear they can't say nothing) as she has 3 younger kids. Kids we all love.
We, I've never experienced survivors guilt but Dee said it so eloquently (as usual). Yes, today is dedicated to C.
Trach, can't wait to take this journey with you! I hope only great things are awaiting you, my friend.
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Ashburn, VA
Posts: 30,196
I am furious in part because I am projecting. If I were faced with being the primary caretaker of my grandchildren, I would be profoundly bitter.
But the Lord in his wisdom hasn't asked me to take on such a responsibility. He will give my friends the grace they need to weather whatever storm they have to.
But I admit, I am really hating that girl right now!
I have no mercy. It worries me,
But the Lord in his wisdom hasn't asked me to take on such a responsibility. He will give my friends the grace they need to weather whatever storm they have to.
But I admit, I am really hating that girl right now!
I have no mercy. It worries me,
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: US East Coast
Posts: 14,287
Gilmer, it's so much worse when we feel very strongly and can't do anything. I feel so sad for the innocent baby.
We too often don't see what we are doing to our own children. We do the best we can and then some. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Life's sometimes so hard...
We too often don't see what we are doing to our own children. We do the best we can and then some. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Life's sometimes so hard...
Member
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 4,672
Originally Posted by Saskia 
Gilmer, it's so much worse when we feel very strongly and can't do anything. I feel so sad for the innocent baby.
We too often don't see what we are doing to our own children. We do the best we can and then some. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Life's sometimes so hard...
We too often don't see what we are doing to our own children. We do the best we can and then some. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Life's sometimes so hard...
Babs
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