colsta

Hi Gleefan,

I hear what you are saying, It is very hard to change people, they can only change them self, (Cliche) I know.
I am reading an interesting book at the moment about how to approach tuff conversations in a productive way called Crucial Conversions.
It also says, there is not a lot you can do about changing other people, the only thing you can do is change how you react to certain situations, its interesting stuff.
Of course this does not apply to every situation. Just though I would share.

So I am on day 6 today!!
Yesterday was a good day only a slight urge.
Today was not such a good, had a day out with the family, and there was some tension as there can be when you are out with a teen daughter, and 14 month old and the wife.
Some times family days out are not all sunshine.
Anyways.
I would normally after a day like today, certainly go get some booze and get a little tipsy, or more.
I do feel like it. But I won't. I am doing to good at the moment to spoil it andI will only regret it.
Hope every one is keeping well.
Talk soon...

DrakeCKC

Undies!

Hope all had a good weekend!

Saskia

Colsta, glad you were able to resist the urge.

As tempted as I was, I decided to stream an episode of a TV show in which a friend had a brief speaking part. That kept me absorbed so I forgot about the urge. I seem to be past it now.

Drake, I hope you had a good weekend, too :-)

Altoids, nice to hear that you had such a good day!

Glee, I'm glad to hear that you are taking care of yourself when you feel drained. In my situation today, it was a gathering I really wanted to attend. There were a number of people there that I wanted to meet because I had gotten to know them "virtually". I'm uncomfortable when I have a strong urge like that. It seems like I do OK if, as you suggested, I get wrapped up in something :-)

SparkyMcSparky

Hey Gilmer,

AV has been fairly active lately, but I haven't been pummeling it. Trying the "ignore" approach.

Funny, after enough days sober, the thoughts start coming in that "Hey, I can moderate my drinking", or "I could stop with just one". Regardless, had a very good conversation about it this weekend, including my inability to "turn off the tap".

Just easier not to drink at all.

courage2

Sparky, am I crazy or am I hearing some relapse-anxiety in your posts? It's ok -- it's normal. I recommend a healthy fear of relapse. Remember what your lowest point was like? You can be there again in what will seem like no time, and worse. Not meaning to sound dire, but it's true. We're usually very nice & all on this thread, but we're in a dire situation here.

The important thing is don't drink, and the next important thing is don't allow yourself to dwell on thinking about it. As they say, the thought might come knocking but you shouldn't invite it in and entertain it.

Anyone around here can tell you, all last year I fought with persistent & obsessive urges. Much less often nowadays, thank goodness. It's best to forestall the thinking before it can take root -- don't let yourself get too hungry, angry, lonely or tired. Or depressed. Physical exertion helps. So does intense concentration on something else -- something you can really get into.

I may be misreading your posts -- if so, I hope this helps someone else who is thinking of going back out -- there's just a whole lot of trouble and pain in a drink or a drug for any of us anymore.

LonelyShadow

Sparky I find it exhausting when the AV just keeps on nagging too, and you keep digging into the toolbox and fighting it off only for it to come back again and again.

Just keep getting through the triggers with grace and eventually it begins to get quieter and quieter.

Hang in there brother

Colsta be strong, commit yourself to this sobriety. The amazing sober times are just around the corner

tootsl1

Sparky, rather than ignoring that urge ( white knuckling) I confront it, turn to AV and say "ok, for arguments sake what happens if I give in and have a cold frosty one? Hmm yup, I follow it with another, and another, seeing a pattern here AV? You're not?? Ok well, let's say you can convince me I can moderate, and ok with will power I manage to keep it to a socially acceptable level for the first week or so, I feel frustrated because I'm not getting blootered, but I feel guilty because I know I shouldn't be drinking so then - here's the thing - I allow myself a few more a bit more often. Well AV, next thing we know I'm getting a DUI or my stomach pumped, or the family up and leave ( of course that line of argument only works if you love your family ) or I lose my job, and if I keep my sanity, I crawl back here asking for help to get over another day one. Well AV, that offer of a drink sounds...... Well, actually ya wee sh1te, it sounds like something you want me to do, not like something I want to do. So thanks but no thanks..... Now where's my club soda, I feel like celebrating! "
What ever you do Sparky, don't keep away from here, as Courage wrote, post, post,post.

Saskia

On the subject of urges, I read recently that on average, alcoholics have 15 years less of life expectancy. For me that is really significant because I will be 70 this year. I'd very much like to hang around for awhile! Now the words "on average" means there's a whole range so nobody can predict our real life expectancy but nonetheless, it does provide food for thought. I definitely have found that getting absorbed in something such as a good book or movie can make the urge disappear. That worked for me yesterday. Reaching out to someone else who has been through this also helps. That worked for me last week.

Have a good day, Undies!

Saskia

Toots, I think I will print your post and tack it on my fridge door!

DrakeCKC

Paraphrasing an addict friend of mine (his language would get me in trouble with Dee and the SR folks!): Your addict or AV is like the Taliban. Strikes when you least expect it and damages not only you but those around you. One has to be vigilant and in control to tame it.

When I got the urge or thought I could moderate, I just looked back and compared where I was now to where I had been. It was clear that I had to continue sobriety.

Hang in Spark!

gleefan

Altoids - ahh, being outdoors is so restorative for me, too. I feel so much better after a hike or some time at the beach.

Colsta - I have 10 and 8 year old boys, and it's been helpful for me to manage my expectations. It's not reasonable to expect them to have no conflicts with each other, for example, or even for their conflicts to be polite, as they are still learning those skills. Getting aggravated about it doesn't help them and can be a trigger for me.

Saskia - A healthy life is a great reason to stay stopped.

Sparky - A year and a half ago, after a particularly ugly morning after drinking, I found sr. After two weeks of not drinking, I came to understand that I could moderate. I "moderated" the first night, but still had more than I planned. then proceeded to drink more than I ever has previously for the following year before I came back to sr. I'm not going to win any war stories. My bottom was a high one. But inside I died a little bit more every time I picked up over the course of last year. This year, picked up again after 3 weeks, with the intention of only one or two drinks. I proceeded to get seriously wrecked and ruin a weekend away with my family. When I stopped this year, I was exhausted, spent, demoralized. My life split open at all the seams. Recovery has been so, so hard. You met me after I was able to sew myself up a little, you didn't see the codependency and depression and hopelessness that I struggled with in the early months. Not drinking isn't "easier," but it hold the promise of healing. The other path I was on was going to lead to death.

Stay strong, Undies.

gleefan

DG - great job on 17 months sober. You have been an incredible role model for me over the past few months. I feel so, so fortunate that our sober paths have crossed. I hope you have a great day, my friend!!

Altoids

Good morning, Undies. I kinda love Mondays since I retired. It is like a day to get the house in order after a weekend of goofing off with hubby. We will do a project on the weekend or go on day trips, but not tend to the household much. LOL! Monday is my "get everything back in order" day.

Plus, I found a sweet part time job that I think may be perfect for me. Thinking of checking into that. It is at the local Veterans office helping with claims. I grew up in a military family, then married a soldier so spent the next 23 years moving all over the place. I love our military and think working/helping vets would be a good thing for me to do. Plus I already know the lingo and how to work thru a lot of the red tape bc of my dad and my hubby. Hmmmm. . . perfect fit??? Not sure, but it is worth exploring.

Wishing everyone a good day.

SparkyMcSparky

Hey everyone.

Sorry, didn't mean to alarm anyone. Gilmer had asked how the old AV was doing, and it is just getting a little more insidious in its approach. But no, no urges to drink, and I'm just ignoring the yammering of Mr. AV. Because he really doesn't want me to moderate - he wants me to get hammered. Moderation is just another way to put my hammeredness in a Barbie dress.

Thanks Toots, and that is my thought process as well. See, my AV may be persistent, but I'm smarter than it is. It says, "Hey have a few, you can moderate!". I know better. And no, I don't stay away from here - I stop by this thread everyday, though I try not to plug things up with meaningless posts just for the sake of posting. Like most men, I do love the sound of my own voice, and am even more impressed with how good I sound when I write.

Thanks Drake. My life has been beautifully uncomplicated since I quit drinking, and my thoughts and decisions are much better sober than they were while drinking. Kind of liking this sober ride right now, and don't have any plans to get off any time soon.

Thanks GF, from one high-bottomer to another. Yes, the dying a little inside each time is the thing that keeps me away from drinking. If one reads my first posts on SR 61 days ago, you can see that I was about ready to pack it in. Every drink made me die a little more inside, and I was fine with that. Actually, the quicker I could pack it in, the better.

Reading DrakeCKCs blog, I came from a very similar place to him, though he expresses a much more artistic side in planning his own demise than I did. I was just going to drive my car into a bridge abutment or something like that.

Those posts seem like they were written by a different person. Probably because they were.

Hey Courage,

No, we're not in a dire situation here. Just sharing how the insidious yammering of the AV can continue to try and sneak its way in, even after we've been sober for a while. Sure, those first two weeks were hell, but in a way, this is more cruel.

But yes, like any addict, I think there is always some sort of relapse anxiety. But as an anxious person (like most of us drinkers are), there is always a fear in the back of my mind that Mr. Drink may sneak back in. That's not an unhealthy thing to have this anxiety, as I use it as a tool to keep me sober.

Heck, I've been going to an AA meeting (a program I'm not overly enamored with) just to make sure I've got a loaded sober toolbox. There's a bunch of nice people there who've quit drinking, even if they are a bit zealous. Possibly it's just me, but they almost seem as addicted to going to AA meetings as they were to alcohol.

Regardless, thanks for your concern, but no, doing fine here, and in no danger of drinking. I can play the film through to the final reel, and know the scenes my AV doesn't want me to see.

michaels_w

I really liked the idea of the writing folders, glee. It would definitely help me get my thoughts together, better.

I also so appreciate your honesty in discussing your earlier story. It just encourages me to see how all of our journeys, have common starting points.

Your above quote, about expectations, especially hit a note with me. My expectations in life, seem to have gone hand in hand with my using chemicals.

It would start with some obsessively high, unreasonable expectation of myself or others. That would lead to disappointment, which would lead to using. The downward spiral would just cycle from there.

Your message about managing reasonable expectations made a lot of sense to me, especially at this point in my recovery. I can also see how it can be a lifelong learning process, with continuous effort.

I know that part of my addictive behavior, is self-sabotage. I would "set the bar" so high, for myself and others, that I set myself up to fail.

So, my "homework", for now, is to be more reasonable with my expectations. Also, getting these things in writing, as you recommended, is my other homework.

Thanks, "teacher". lol.

Oh, p.s., I'll "reasonably expect" a good grade on my homework assignment. lol.

peace.

Saskia

Sparky, I "get" your feelings about AA and I had to dragged kicking and screaming to go back there. However, I'm appreciating it more this time around. Even if AA were to be a substitute addiction, it would seem to be rather harmless - especially when compared to drinking or drugging!

IWLSAST

Hi Undies,

Just thought I might pop my head in and offer some thoughts on relapse and my AV.

First of all, while I may not have a specific tracking on milestones, I do want to congratulate all that have experienced the joy of achievement these past few days.

Thanks Courage, yes, my refined edges are somewhat jagged and reconditioned. I have no illusions that book smarts nearly outweighs my street smarts. A college highlight was induction into the very elite sub group of "Dirt Brothers" within my frat. We added a wrinkle to the secret handshake and at times followed up by whispering, "ashes to ashes", the other whispering back, "dirt to dirt." Funny stuff!

Gilmer, no, my bike ride was just that, no pot of gold (golf).

As for AV and relapse, I have no idea what is the right or wrong way to view this potential. All I can offer is my experience.

First of all, what leads us to our desire to stop drinking is different for all of us. My first attempt to stop drinking lasted 11 plus years. Program-less, my motivation was to avoid the negative consequences that alcohol was having on my family life…period. BUZZ, wrong answer...for me.

I became comfortable in my sober skin. Thought little, if ever of drinking. I have said that my relapse was triggered by the 180 Percocet’s that I ingested, as directed, in the two months following bypass surgery. I also came to learn that the chemical makeup of Percocet and alcohol was very similar; so taking that pain pill was in a way just like drinking. Four months later at a dinner party with a psychiatrist, psychologists and therapists, included my EW in attendance, (only 2 of the eight were not from that field), I announced that I was thinking about having a glass of Chianti with my dinner. I can vividly replay that scene in my mind. Long story short, the consensus was, “it’s about time you tight ass.” Not their fault, nor do I put any blame on them. They all worked with troubled kids mostly and none specialized in addiction. Anyway, how could they play my tape through to the countless and progressive lows, when I had no idea myself what depths of despair were to follow.

For me, l had let this old friend back into my life. I honestly had NO IDEA how cunning, baffling, powerful, and most importantly PATIENT that old friend had been. I held the power to control this old friend of mine now. What better way to unwind than to end these stress filled days out of town than by eating dinner with a relaxing glass of wine again. That is exactly how it began. Not even every day. Just a few times a week was enough.

Within a few weeks, my regiment shifted to a vodka martini prior to dinner, followed by a wine complement with my meal, and ending with an Irish coffee or liqueur. So refined was my new way of drinking. This was a free buzz that barely broke per-diem. In the end, I was a true to my “Dirt Brother” ways. Dinner became 40 to 60 bucks every night, that might or might not include even an appetizer. Add to that a once a week free drinking splurge to my heart’s content by expensing a customer dinner. Oh, without the customer in most cases. The insanity told me that I deserved to lie about that free major buzz a week because I couldn't be home with my family. As if I even wanted to be vs this free over beverage.

I went from not drinking for over a decade to a freeloading buzz-hound in less than a year. There I was lying to my company and ex while killing myself, and quite frankly, loving every minute of it. Remember, I was in control now. I could turn off that spigot any time I wanted to. Quit drinking…phew, just snap my fingers and I was a non-drinker again.

News flash, it didn’t work out that way at all. I was powerless. A decade of failed attempts that included walking away from my best friend and ex after 25 years together, my kids, and job, just so I could move out on my own and drink without anyone watching.

Thinking back, that first plug in the jug was a pretty high low. My last low found me in a fetal position, chronically depressed, just hoping I would not wake up one day. I promise you, that OLD FRIEND didn’t mention a word off this when he re-entered my life that night as a simple glass of red wine.

It for sure wasn't the Perc's that triggered that relapse. It was nothing more that a tool box that was borderline empty.

For me, fighting, ignoring, confronting or compromising with my AV is an exercise in futility. Avoiding the bad consequences from drinking NEVER stopped me from drinking in the past. My committing to a comprehensive mind, body and spirit recovery program has offered more happiness that I ever imagined possible.

Cover from the storm, NO THANK YOU….LET ME EARN THE RAINBOW!!

SparkyMcSparky

Thanks for sharing your story Carlos.

Yes, there is certainly more to it than just not drinking. I'm still new enough at this to know that I don't know anything.

gleefan

((Carlos)), a beautiful post that elegantly explains the difference between quitting and recovering.

Saskia

Thank you, Carlos!! That was an amazing description of your journey and a cautionary tale for all of us. It is unbelievably easy to start listening to that seductive AV siren song and a sure-fire path to relapse. I suspect we all find our somewhat unique ways to deal with that. I'm finding it immensely helpful to hear everyone's stories - both here and in AA and hope that I can do as well as you and others who have struggled and made it back from the edge.