Venecia

JDooner -- SR for me. I attend the Tuesday and Friday night meetings here, too.

advbike

Congratulations Sean - that is really awesome! Good job friend!

advbike

JD, I have never done too well with AA in general - all the "rules", the labeling, the requirement to admit powerlessness, and the emphasis on "time". The higher power actually doesn't bother me and I have found some tools that are useful from the program. But, I have this overarching feeling that they suck you in like a cult until your new addiction, friends, family, and even jargon - are all AA. I used to leave meetings with such a bleak outlook, like "is this what the rest of my life is going to be? Made me want a drink actually.

This time around I have used SR to reinforce my need to quit drinking, in combination with AVRT to recognize when the voice is calling to me and how to block it. SR helps because by being on here once or twice a day I get a lot of reminders that help me stay sober. The act of sharing our knowledge by posting is a form of service, and I believe we all want to feel part of a group, so the cohort concept as embodied by the class threads works really well. I really feel part of this group and it helps me feel responsible.

That being said, I have always been spiritual and talked to God, if not always daily. During this recovery effort I did ask God to relieve me of the craving. And he/she listened. I feel it is very important that we learn to recognize that it isn't all us doing the work. Learning to be grateful. I had at least two or three serendipitous events early on where I had actually caved and was headed for a drink, and something odd foiled my plans just long enough for me to come to my senses. I attribute it to the grace of God.

foolsgold66

Well, I kind of had to collect my thoughts on that JD. My last AA meeting was in the neighborhood of 9 years ago, so I'm not actively using AA but I am consciously to an extent and perhaps subconsciously as well using SOME of that program 'material'.

I spent 28 days in rehab, also a long time ago, so the same really goes for that experience, I think of some of the things I learned there actively, and this likely has subconcious affect too.

I read a little SR almost every day and post some, as you know. I see the failures and successes and trials and relapses here. I know there is support here if I need it, and I try to pitch in to help others, albeit selectively.

I'm also personally using positive and negative reinforcement specifically, as in sometimes I visualize the negative consequences of a return to the bottle, and sometimes I reflect on the positive things I'm achieving now and that lie in my sober future.

I've spent some time rereading AA literature and a couple of books about alcoholism.

As to AVRT. I'm a pretty honest person. I lie occasionally, I think everyone does. Mostly they are white lies, I've engaged in very few whopper lies in my life. I try not to lie to myself, I've known since I was 15 years old that alcohol was a problem for me. I never told myself it wasn't. I've ALWAYS been cognizant of my problem. I can't do 'The big plan' without it feeling like I could be telling myself a lie. I must live my life in the today, always. Maybe 'The big plan' is somewhere I could get in time with agressive pursuit of AVRT. I dunno.

As of now, I'm sticking with choosing not to drink, trying to live a good, honest, meaningful life, and the other things I've outlined above as my program.

advbike

Hi Trail, you posted in the August class thread and might get better feedback in Newcomers or the November class. I do see you had some good sobriety lately, starting this summer. What happened after 30 days then, and another two weeks in October? It's important to identify what triggers your relapse and avoid the next time. It also really helps to get into a class for support and I hope you try the November class. I wish you the best.

kadidee

Sean, congrats, that is awesome!

Trail, how are you holding up?

Jdooner, I primarily use SR, but some things I've picked up about AVRT and AA from being on this forum are helpful too. I went to GA meetings when I quit gambling and we talked a lot about the steps, but I've never done them. I'm not religious, but definitely spiritual and do have a higher power. I think of it in terms of divine energy or light. A spiritual belief in something larger helps to keep me on the road to recovery.

EternalQ

I used SR.
Mindfulness meditation.
The Easy way to quit drinking book.
AVRT / Rational Recovery.
Cognitive Behavioral Techniques.
And some AA readings that appealed to me. Though I've never been to AA.

EternalQ

Trail, stick with us.

Sean, 100 is a magnificent number! Thanks for sharing.

w2r

For a long time I have been uncomfortable with the level of drinking I was involved in.
A year ago, I came across the "Easy Way to control Alcohol", which certainly got me thinking.
Looking for real information about the negatives of drinking, I stumbled on SR in june/13.

I read lots, and stopped drinking on August 19. However I have had a few days into the wine since then.

I had never really been looking to quit, but reading more and more, it seemed the prudent thing to do.

I've felt bad having a few drinking days, however I feel my resolve is strengthening with time, and It gives me hope since I've learned a few of you actually started to quit long before august.

It would help if my wife was on board. Her nightly display of wine enjoyment is hard to ignore.

kadidee

w2r, I relate to your post about realizing there might be a problem but continuing to drink despite the concerns. In summer 2012, I was regularly drinking two bottles of wine a day for about two months. I started earlier and earlier, round about 3:30 with the white. Then I'd switch to red and drink till midnight or later. Sleep until noon or later, wake up and do it all again. Sometimes I could see myself from a bird's eye view and saw clearly that I was *that* woman who just drank all day and only left the house for wine.

When school started I disciplined myself to only one bottle a night, thinking that I had it under control. I spent most of last year becoming increasingly concerned about it, but never considered giving it up entirely. March and April were bad and I felt like I was spinning out of control. In June I decided to only drink on social occasions, but was back to drinking alone within a few weeks. Finally I said, okay I'll quit for the month of August then go back to moderating, but in the meantime learned so much here and realized that moderation was a figment of my imagination.

I first came across SR in January when I googled 'will I lose weight if I quit drinking?'. I joined but never logged in again until August. I think I might have quit earlier if I had started posting and reading when I joined. Didn't mean to write so much, but reading your post makes me think about how the decision to quit was a slow process. There was a time when I just couldn't fathom life without wine. I guess we all come to be ready in our own time.

Thanks for reading if you got this far. Was therapeutic to type it out because I never want to go back there.

I can't imagine how challenging it would be to stay quit with someone else actively drinking in the house. Also, from what I've understood from your posts, your wife doesn't view her drinking as problematic so is not considering quitting. That's a tough one.

Elseware

First, congratulations to you Sean. 100 days is a wonderful thing to be celebrating. Hurray!

I have been thinking about what everyone is saying about why and how they stopped with the drugs and alcohol. My motivations are sort of unclear to me as I write this. Why exactly did I desire to quit this stuff? And how did I get this far? I think basically drugs and alcohol addiction are part of the same continuum but my motivations for quitting each was a little different. My motivations for drinking and taking pills was exactly the same and I know exactly what it was; namely pleasure induced by stimulating neurotransmitters. And a seductive call it is for me, too. Why do I know longer wish to heed this siren? The call is certainly still there. It is late and I'm going to think about this and sleep on it and try to post as honest a post as I can in the morning. I think it may be important for me to be very, very clear to myself about why I'm off drugs and alcohol in order to keep off drugs and alcohol. This is what I really, really want. On this I am clear. And another niggling question. What am I going to do if I wreck up my knee or have an issue requiring pain management? I'm scared of pain. Except for giving birth, I've never even had any to speak of.

jdooner

Thanks all for the responses. I have just purchased the AVRT books and want to learn more. My AA is working but there are parts I am not thrilled with and I find I am bending the program to meet my needs more often then not. I am wresting with the power of choice so I am going to learn more.

Elseware, I chose to stop drinking bc I thought my wife had a problem and the amount I was drinking was bothering me. After physically detoxing in the first week, I realized I too had a problem. As I have peeled back the onion in recovery boy do I ever. I obsess about everything and am an addict on the truest sense. So what was drinking has morphed into a sober state. I have no desire to get in an altered state ever again.

This creates a conundrum with my knee and why I have been so concerned. Figuring out my own motives can I trust myself. I mean its my same brain that has steered me wrong with drinking and drugging before, so am I really feeling the right amount of pain to take a pill? It's a tougher question and a bit of grey vs black and white. I as fine with doing without as there is no ambiguity but the docs refused and gave me hundreds if Oxys 5mg knowing I am an addict and alcoholic even though these were not my DoC.

Two days ago, as I have posted I tripped on a Lego with my crutches and hurt my knee. I as in pain and I broke down and asked my wife for a pill. The directions indicate one ever two to three hours for pain. But was e pain at the appropriate level? I am not sure I am wrestling with this internally. I took one before bed and I was floating. I fought it with every ounce of my being but I was feeling the high despite not wanting too. I told my wife and will share at my meeting tonight. I told my wife to throw them out and I have managed yesterday and today without.

So the question is was it my "beast" AV or was the high just a given side effect that was part of the healing? Have I tainted my sobriety? Should I reset by sobriety clock? I am not asking but these are the questions I am wrestling with today.

I will say this challenge is just that a major challenge for me. I believe the fact I don't want to get high or altered is what is key. Maybe this exactly what I needed at this moment for continued sobriety.

Venecia

JDooner, I get the impression that the ongoing, and expected, physical pain and the presence of Oxy in your home are doing a number on you.

I'm disappointed, though not entirely surprised, to hear that a physician didn't put much work into determining the best course, medication-wise, for a patient who was honest about being an addict. The fact that you went home with so many, though, is more troublesome.

You should have gone home with a fraction and instructions on disposing with any surplus, including the option of returning them to the hospital.

In an earlier post, I mentioned working previously in a health care setting where there was a fantastic addiction medicine specialist. This is a physician subspecialty, just as is neonatology or radiologic oncology, etc., etc. To be an addiction medicine doc, one must meet rigorous standards, pass a board-certification exam, and comply with post-certification educational requirements. Remember, they work not only with those in active addictions, but also as consulting physicians when a patient has pain issues. It has taken a long time for addiction to be recognized as needing a subspecialty of its own. The prevalence of opiate addiction tells us much work needs to be done.

Here is the website for the American Society of Addiction Medicine. It has a link to finding an addiction medicine doc nearby. If this is of any help, good. If not, then at least it's good for people to know about addiction medicine physicians.

ASAM Home Page

jdooner

Thanks Venecia. We have gotten rid of the medicine as of two days ago. The issue is on Thursday. Yes, it caused much mental anguish and still is. I have sort of accepted the fact that I may have taken one when I was borderline and I am beating myself up. I am letting this go as of today - I cannot change the past and I do believe I had the best intentions throughout the process.

Yes, I was open with my doc and yes they gave me a lot - sort of like giving a gambler $100K and dropping them off in Las Vegas it was tough. I have made it through, I don't think I honestly broke my sobriety after thinking way too much about this topic.

I am sorry to bore you guys to death with this topic, but it was killing me this past week.

As I said, the pain pills are all gone (I took them to the dump today), I am on Asprin regimen and the knee is doing better. Whew, I am glad to be through this though. It highlights the lack of understanding in our community regarding Addiction. I mean my Dr. is the best of the best and he did not get it - set me up to fail actually.

Elseware - I am not sure if I can be of any help but having just gone through this ordeal. let me know if I can.

foolsgold66

Elseware. The why is simple for me. I don't wish to do the time, therefore I choose not to do the crime. When I had a little slip I lied to myself that I had a 'get out of jail free' card, so I relapsed. A year later I was approaching the electric chair.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think it is possible that you have not suffered as many negative consequences as a result of your addiction as I. I can just sit down and start typing and bang out a 2 page list in nothing flat.

Deep down, we're all completely selfish. Survival. Get what we want and need. There are layers above, but I choose to look my innate selfishness right in the eye and use it to help me stay on the right path.

You got here, you wanted to, you have your reasons other than just being bored and wanting to experiment with sobriety. Sit down, think hard, and make your list, and forgive me for forgetting if you already have done so.

foolsgold66

I'm starting to enjoy your broken record, JD. I think you need to grab all these bits and pieces of narrative from your posts and make yourself a document describing your experiences, for the future, if you haven't already done so. To an extent, you overreacted, but better to do so than just eat pain pills like candy....

Hundreds of oxy seems over the top from my laymans understanding of pain management as well. I've never been prescribed anything stronger than percocet, and that was for a surgery involving bone.

SeanMc

My thanks indeed for all the support here- I can only underline that the improvements all round for me are entirely down to you.

Hey I found another small Buddhist-folk religious temple today that I didn't know about; I'm white British but practice Hinduism, and pray before any image of the divine...

jdooner

Done with the broken record - I had to come full circle in my own way and terms. I posted the bits and pieces as it was important to me. Maybe not hundreds but a lot. Oxys are Percocet from my understanding.

A lot of what I am going through is trying to keep myself honest and I felt that I was skating on that thin ice this week. Perhaps did not need 20 or so posts but it was my way of venting and getting through.

I am back in the saddle and good - did not break my sobriety and feel stronger - thanks for the help class.

kadidee

Jdooner, I appreciate your sharing and honesty as concerns trying to figure out your motivations and grappling with how much pain is 'legit' pain to take a pill. I don't get tired of reading about the same subject in different ways because I see it as a reflection of your thought processes in real time. As I pressed send last night on the post about my drinking over the last year, I realized that I had shared a lot of that already in bits and pieces on this thread, so I'm repeating too. Sometimes though it helps to think through it again at different stages and the August class is a safe place to do that.

Happy sober Sunday everyone.

foolsgold66

I'll belabor the point just a skosh JD, because I didn't make it correctly. Yes, they both contain opiates. Oxycontin is time-release, percs are not. To exaggerate a little, the true intent of oxycontin is for people that are in long-term weeks\months\years chronic pain with no or very slow natural relief from pain, so that they do not have any excruciating ups and downs in pain level. Other non-time release opiates like percocet is for temporary trauma, like the surgery you underwent, so that you can associate dosing with pain level more objectively and wean off as pain allows.

That's still an overprescribe based on my educated laymans understanding of what you went through, and what I should have typed instead of simply saying 'stronger'.