Medications.....
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: western canada
Posts: 1,441
Medications.....
Hi all....
I just wanted to post some information on medications for discussion.
Thanks to Geofite for providing the links and info.
http://www.breggin.com/yourdrug.html
and ....
PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS AND THE ASTONISHING RISE OF MENTAL ILLNESS IN AMERICA
Ethical Human Psychology and Psychiatry, Vol. 7, Number 1, Spring 2005
Full article, with extensive documentation, accessible at:
http://psychrights.org/index.htm
Excerpted, with minimal editing, by Gary G. Kohls, MD, Duluth, MN
The percentage of Americans disabled by mental illness has increased fivefold since 1955, when Thorazine - remembered today as psychiatry's first "wonder" drug - was introduced into the market.
There are now nearly 6 million Americans disabled by mental illness, and this number increases by more than 400 people each day. A review of the scientific literature reveals that it is our drug-based paradigm of care that is fueling this epidemic. The drugs increase the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill, and induce new and more severe psychiatric symptoms in a significant percentage of patients.
E. Fuller Torrey, in his 2001 book The Invisible Plague, concluded that insanity had risen to the level of an epidemic. This epidemic has unfolded in lockstep with the ever-increasing use of psychiatric drugs.
The number of disabled mentally ill has increased nearly six-fold since Thorazine was introduced.
The number of disabled mentally ill has also increased dramatically since 1987, the year Prozac was introduced.
Anti-psychotics, antidepressants, and anti-anxiety drugs create perturbations in neurotransmitter functions. In response, the brain goes through a series of compensatory adaptations. Neurons both release less serotonin and down-regulate (or decrease) their number of serotonin receptors. The density of serotonin receptors in the brain may decrease by 50% or more. After a few weeks, the patient's brain is functioning in a manner that is qualitatively as well as quantitatively different from the normal state.
Conditions that disrupt brain chemistry may cause delusions, hallucinations, disordered thinking, and mood swings - the symptoms of insanity. Infections agents, tumors, metabolic and toxic disorders and various diseases could all affect the brain in this manner. Psychiatric medications also disrupt brain chemistry. Psychotropic drugs increase the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill, and they cause a significant percentage of patients to become ill in new and more severe ways.
TURNING PATIENTS CHRONICALLY ILL
Neuroleptics (=Anti-psychotics = Anti-schizophrenics = Major Tranquilizers)
In an NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health) study, short-term (6 weeks) anti-psychotic drug-treated patients were much improved compared to placebo (75% vs. 23%). However patients who received placebo treatment were less likely to be re-hospitalized over the next 3 years than were those who received any of the three active phenothiazines.
Relapse was found to be significantly related to the dose of the tranquilizing medication the patient was receiving before he was put on placebo - the higher the dose, the greater the probability of relapse.
Neuroleptics increased the patients' biological vulnerability to psychosis. A
retrospective study by Bockoven also indicated that the drugs were making patients chronically ill.
There were three NIMH-funded studies conducted during the 1970s that examined this possibility (whether first-episode psychotic episodes could be treated without medications), and in each instance, the newly admitted patients treated without drugs did better than those treated in a conventional manner (i.e. with anti-psychotic drugs).
Patients who were treated without neuroleptics in an experimental home staffed by nonprofessionals had lower relapse rates over a 2-year period than a control group treated with drugs in a hospital. Patients treated without drugs were the better functioning group as well.
The brain responds to neuroleptics - which block 70% to 90% of all D2 dopamine receptors in the brain - as though they are a pathological insult. To compensate, dopaminergic brain cells increase the density of their D2 receptors by 30% or more. The brain is now supersensitive to dopamine and becomes more biologically vulnerable to psychosis and is at particularly high risk of severe relapse should he or she abruptly quit taking the drugs.
Neuroleptics can produce a dopamine supersensitivity that leads to both dyskinetic and psychotic symptoms. An implication is that the tendency toward psychotic relapse in a patient who had developed such a supersensitivity is determined by more that just the normal course of the illness.
With minimal or no exposure to neuroleptics, at least 40% of people who suffered a psychotic break and were diagnosed with schizophrenia would not relapse after leaving the hospital, and perhaps as many as 65% would function fairly well over the long term. However, once first-episode patients were treated with neuroleptics, a different fate awaited them. Their brains would undergo drug-induced changes that would increase their biological vulnerability to psychosis, and this would increase the likelihood that they would become chronically ill (and thus permanently
disabled).
In the mid 1990s, several research teams reported that the drugs cause atrophy of the cerebral cortex and an enlargement of the basal ganglia. The drugs were causing structural changes in the brain. The drug-induced enlargement of the basal ganglia was associated with greater severity of both negative and "positive" (schizophrenic) symptoms. Over the long term the drugs cause changes in the brain associated with a worsening of the very symptoms the drugs are supposed to alleviate.
Antidepressants
The story of antidepressants is a bit subtler, and it leads to the same conclusion that these drugs increase chronic illness over time. Well-designed studies, the differences between the effectiveness of antidepressant drugs and placebo are not impressive. About 61% of the drug-treated patients improved, versus 46% of the placebo patients, producing a net drug benefit of only 15%.
At the end of 16 weeks (in a study comparing cognitive behavior therapy,
interpersonal therapy, the tricyclic antidepressant imipramine and (placebo) there were no significant differences among treatments, including placebo plus clinical management, for the less severely depressed and functionally impaired patients. Only the severely depressed patients fared better on a tricyclic than on placebo.
However, at the end of 18 months, even this minimal benefit disappeared. Stay-well rates were best for the cognitive behavior group (30%) and poorest for the imipramine group (19%).
Antidepressants were making people chronically ill, just like the anti-psychotics were. In 1985, a U.K. group reported that in a 2-year study comparing drug therapy to cognitive therapy, relapse was significantly higher in the pharmacotherapy group. Long-term use of antidepressants may increase the patient's biochemical vulnerability to depression and thus worsen the course of affective disorders. An analysis of 27 studies showed that whether one treats a depressed patient for 3 months of 3 years, it does not matter when one stops the drugs. The longer the drug
treatment, the higher the likelihood of relapse.
Benzodiazepines
Xanax (a benzodiazepine class "minor" tranquilizer) patients got better during the first four weeks of treatment; they did not improve any more in weeks 4 to 8, and their symptoms began to worsen after that. A high percentage relapsed and by the end of 23 weeks, they were worse off than patients treated without drugs on five different outcomes measures. Patients tapered off Xanax suffered nearly 4 times as many panic attacks as the non-drug patients and 25% of the Xanax patients suffered from rebound anxiety more severe than when they began the study.
Then and Now
Today's drug-treated patients spend much more time in hospital beds and are far more likely to die from their mental illness than they were in 1896. Modern treatments have set up a revolving door and appear to be a leading cause of injury and death.
MANUFACTURING MENTAL ILLNESS
It is well-known that all of the major classes of psychiatric drugs -
anti-psychotics, anti-depressants, benzodiazepines, and stimulants for ADHD - can trigger new and more severe psychiatric symptoms in a significant percentage of patients. It is easy to see this epidemic-creating factor at work with Prozac and the other SSRIs.
Prozac quickly took up the top position as America's most complained about drug. By 1997, 39,000 adverse-event reports about it had been sent to Medwatch. These reports are thought to represent only 1% of the actual number of such events, suggesting that nearly 4 million people in the US had suffered such problems, which included mania, psychotic depression, nervousness, anxiety, agitation, hostility, hallucinations, memory loss, tremors, impotence, convulsions, insomnia and nausea.
The propensity of Prozac and other SSRIs to trigger mania or psychosis is
undoubtedly the biggest problem with these drugs. The American Psychiatric Association warns that manic or hypomanic episodes are estimated to occur in 8% to 20 % of patients treated with anti-depressants.
Anti-depressant-induced mania is not simply a temporary and reversible phenomenon, but a complex biochemical mechanism of illness deterioration. Yale researchers reported that 8.1% of all admissions to a psychiatric hospital they studied were due to SSRI-induced mania or psychosis.
Thus the SSRI path to a disabling mental illness can be easily seen. A depressed patient treated with an anti-depressant suffers a manic or psychotic episode, at which time his or her diagnosis is changed to bipolar disorder. At that point, the person is prescribed an anti-psychotic to go along with the anti-depressant, and, once on a drug cocktail, the person is well along on the road to permanent disability.
CONCLUSION
There is an outside agent fueling this epidemic of mental illness, only it is to be found in the medicine cabinet. Psychiatric drugs perturb normal neurotransmitter function, and while that perturbation may curb symptoms over a short term, over the long run it increases the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill, or ill with new or more severe symptoms. A review of the scientific literature shows quite clearly that it is our drug-based paradigm of care that is fueling this modern-day plague.
I just wanted to post some information on medications for discussion.
Thanks to Geofite for providing the links and info.
http://www.breggin.com/yourdrug.html
and ....
PSYCHIATRIC DRUGS AND THE ASTONISHING RISE OF MENTAL ILLNESS IN AMERICA
Ethical Human Psychology and Psychiatry, Vol. 7, Number 1, Spring 2005
Full article, with extensive documentation, accessible at:
http://psychrights.org/index.htm
Excerpted, with minimal editing, by Gary G. Kohls, MD, Duluth, MN
The percentage of Americans disabled by mental illness has increased fivefold since 1955, when Thorazine - remembered today as psychiatry's first "wonder" drug - was introduced into the market.
There are now nearly 6 million Americans disabled by mental illness, and this number increases by more than 400 people each day. A review of the scientific literature reveals that it is our drug-based paradigm of care that is fueling this epidemic. The drugs increase the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill, and induce new and more severe psychiatric symptoms in a significant percentage of patients.
E. Fuller Torrey, in his 2001 book The Invisible Plague, concluded that insanity had risen to the level of an epidemic. This epidemic has unfolded in lockstep with the ever-increasing use of psychiatric drugs.
The number of disabled mentally ill has increased nearly six-fold since Thorazine was introduced.
The number of disabled mentally ill has also increased dramatically since 1987, the year Prozac was introduced.
Anti-psychotics, antidepressants, and anti-anxiety drugs create perturbations in neurotransmitter functions. In response, the brain goes through a series of compensatory adaptations. Neurons both release less serotonin and down-regulate (or decrease) their number of serotonin receptors. The density of serotonin receptors in the brain may decrease by 50% or more. After a few weeks, the patient's brain is functioning in a manner that is qualitatively as well as quantitatively different from the normal state.
Conditions that disrupt brain chemistry may cause delusions, hallucinations, disordered thinking, and mood swings - the symptoms of insanity. Infections agents, tumors, metabolic and toxic disorders and various diseases could all affect the brain in this manner. Psychiatric medications also disrupt brain chemistry. Psychotropic drugs increase the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill, and they cause a significant percentage of patients to become ill in new and more severe ways.
TURNING PATIENTS CHRONICALLY ILL
Neuroleptics (=Anti-psychotics = Anti-schizophrenics = Major Tranquilizers)
In an NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health) study, short-term (6 weeks) anti-psychotic drug-treated patients were much improved compared to placebo (75% vs. 23%). However patients who received placebo treatment were less likely to be re-hospitalized over the next 3 years than were those who received any of the three active phenothiazines.
Relapse was found to be significantly related to the dose of the tranquilizing medication the patient was receiving before he was put on placebo - the higher the dose, the greater the probability of relapse.
Neuroleptics increased the patients' biological vulnerability to psychosis. A
retrospective study by Bockoven also indicated that the drugs were making patients chronically ill.
There were three NIMH-funded studies conducted during the 1970s that examined this possibility (whether first-episode psychotic episodes could be treated without medications), and in each instance, the newly admitted patients treated without drugs did better than those treated in a conventional manner (i.e. with anti-psychotic drugs).
Patients who were treated without neuroleptics in an experimental home staffed by nonprofessionals had lower relapse rates over a 2-year period than a control group treated with drugs in a hospital. Patients treated without drugs were the better functioning group as well.
The brain responds to neuroleptics - which block 70% to 90% of all D2 dopamine receptors in the brain - as though they are a pathological insult. To compensate, dopaminergic brain cells increase the density of their D2 receptors by 30% or more. The brain is now supersensitive to dopamine and becomes more biologically vulnerable to psychosis and is at particularly high risk of severe relapse should he or she abruptly quit taking the drugs.
Neuroleptics can produce a dopamine supersensitivity that leads to both dyskinetic and psychotic symptoms. An implication is that the tendency toward psychotic relapse in a patient who had developed such a supersensitivity is determined by more that just the normal course of the illness.
With minimal or no exposure to neuroleptics, at least 40% of people who suffered a psychotic break and were diagnosed with schizophrenia would not relapse after leaving the hospital, and perhaps as many as 65% would function fairly well over the long term. However, once first-episode patients were treated with neuroleptics, a different fate awaited them. Their brains would undergo drug-induced changes that would increase their biological vulnerability to psychosis, and this would increase the likelihood that they would become chronically ill (and thus permanently
disabled).
In the mid 1990s, several research teams reported that the drugs cause atrophy of the cerebral cortex and an enlargement of the basal ganglia. The drugs were causing structural changes in the brain. The drug-induced enlargement of the basal ganglia was associated with greater severity of both negative and "positive" (schizophrenic) symptoms. Over the long term the drugs cause changes in the brain associated with a worsening of the very symptoms the drugs are supposed to alleviate.
Antidepressants
The story of antidepressants is a bit subtler, and it leads to the same conclusion that these drugs increase chronic illness over time. Well-designed studies, the differences between the effectiveness of antidepressant drugs and placebo are not impressive. About 61% of the drug-treated patients improved, versus 46% of the placebo patients, producing a net drug benefit of only 15%.
At the end of 16 weeks (in a study comparing cognitive behavior therapy,
interpersonal therapy, the tricyclic antidepressant imipramine and (placebo) there were no significant differences among treatments, including placebo plus clinical management, for the less severely depressed and functionally impaired patients. Only the severely depressed patients fared better on a tricyclic than on placebo.
However, at the end of 18 months, even this minimal benefit disappeared. Stay-well rates were best for the cognitive behavior group (30%) and poorest for the imipramine group (19%).
Antidepressants were making people chronically ill, just like the anti-psychotics were. In 1985, a U.K. group reported that in a 2-year study comparing drug therapy to cognitive therapy, relapse was significantly higher in the pharmacotherapy group. Long-term use of antidepressants may increase the patient's biochemical vulnerability to depression and thus worsen the course of affective disorders. An analysis of 27 studies showed that whether one treats a depressed patient for 3 months of 3 years, it does not matter when one stops the drugs. The longer the drug
treatment, the higher the likelihood of relapse.
Benzodiazepines
Xanax (a benzodiazepine class "minor" tranquilizer) patients got better during the first four weeks of treatment; they did not improve any more in weeks 4 to 8, and their symptoms began to worsen after that. A high percentage relapsed and by the end of 23 weeks, they were worse off than patients treated without drugs on five different outcomes measures. Patients tapered off Xanax suffered nearly 4 times as many panic attacks as the non-drug patients and 25% of the Xanax patients suffered from rebound anxiety more severe than when they began the study.
Then and Now
Today's drug-treated patients spend much more time in hospital beds and are far more likely to die from their mental illness than they were in 1896. Modern treatments have set up a revolving door and appear to be a leading cause of injury and death.
MANUFACTURING MENTAL ILLNESS
It is well-known that all of the major classes of psychiatric drugs -
anti-psychotics, anti-depressants, benzodiazepines, and stimulants for ADHD - can trigger new and more severe psychiatric symptoms in a significant percentage of patients. It is easy to see this epidemic-creating factor at work with Prozac and the other SSRIs.
Prozac quickly took up the top position as America's most complained about drug. By 1997, 39,000 adverse-event reports about it had been sent to Medwatch. These reports are thought to represent only 1% of the actual number of such events, suggesting that nearly 4 million people in the US had suffered such problems, which included mania, psychotic depression, nervousness, anxiety, agitation, hostility, hallucinations, memory loss, tremors, impotence, convulsions, insomnia and nausea.
The propensity of Prozac and other SSRIs to trigger mania or psychosis is
undoubtedly the biggest problem with these drugs. The American Psychiatric Association warns that manic or hypomanic episodes are estimated to occur in 8% to 20 % of patients treated with anti-depressants.
Anti-depressant-induced mania is not simply a temporary and reversible phenomenon, but a complex biochemical mechanism of illness deterioration. Yale researchers reported that 8.1% of all admissions to a psychiatric hospital they studied were due to SSRI-induced mania or psychosis.
Thus the SSRI path to a disabling mental illness can be easily seen. A depressed patient treated with an anti-depressant suffers a manic or psychotic episode, at which time his or her diagnosis is changed to bipolar disorder. At that point, the person is prescribed an anti-psychotic to go along with the anti-depressant, and, once on a drug cocktail, the person is well along on the road to permanent disability.
CONCLUSION
There is an outside agent fueling this epidemic of mental illness, only it is to be found in the medicine cabinet. Psychiatric drugs perturb normal neurotransmitter function, and while that perturbation may curb symptoms over a short term, over the long run it increases the likelihood that a person will become chronically ill, or ill with new or more severe symptoms. A review of the scientific literature shows quite clearly that it is our drug-based paradigm of care that is fueling this modern-day plague.
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
ahhh, sh!t!!!
I'm not familar with either source. The first evidenly is selling a book. The second is a political action group. By itself, that doesn't mean either one is wrong, but, it sets up a reason to question their conclusions. Both have something to gain.
That being said, I know at one time, I was HIGHLY overmedicated, and it happened just as the post said; put on an SSRI, and got stoned out of my mind! They then called me bipolar. Only then did I refuse to go along with their "treatment" and got off all the meds I was on -- except the anti depressant. But, Welbutrin is not an SSRI nor a tricyclic, either. This article addresses only the tricyclics and SSRI's. So, where does that leave me?
I think the jury is still out. I'll continue following my doctor's recomendations until I find it problematic. And, he's a great "team" player; he listens and acts upon my concerns and doesn't push medication. So, till there's a definative answer, that's the best I can do.
Good and important article, bike. Thanks for bringing it to the fore.
Shalom!
I'm not familar with either source. The first evidenly is selling a book. The second is a political action group. By itself, that doesn't mean either one is wrong, but, it sets up a reason to question their conclusions. Both have something to gain.
That being said, I know at one time, I was HIGHLY overmedicated, and it happened just as the post said; put on an SSRI, and got stoned out of my mind! They then called me bipolar. Only then did I refuse to go along with their "treatment" and got off all the meds I was on -- except the anti depressant. But, Welbutrin is not an SSRI nor a tricyclic, either. This article addresses only the tricyclics and SSRI's. So, where does that leave me?
I think the jury is still out. I'll continue following my doctor's recomendations until I find it problematic. And, he's a great "team" player; he listens and acts upon my concerns and doesn't push medication. So, till there's a definative answer, that's the best I can do.
Good and important article, bike. Thanks for bringing it to the fore.
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anytown, USA
Posts: 1,019
I skimmed it (on my way out for the day), and it definately has a slant to it. Many of his 'facts' look at the interactions from a different perspective. For instance.....Tartadyskinsis (sp?) can happen, but the %'s are low, and the rates can be lowered even further if you use atypical neuroleptics instead of the traditional neuroleptics that have been around for decades.
He also makes assumptions that are not spelled out. The fact that there could be an under diagnosis or mis-diagnosis of a variety of mental illnesses. It isn't that people are magically becoming more mentally ill, but the fact it is being recognized more. Also, some of the stigmas have been lessened, so more people are seeking help.
Anyhow...i'm outta here....I'll check back after the holiday.
-p
He also makes assumptions that are not spelled out. The fact that there could be an under diagnosis or mis-diagnosis of a variety of mental illnesses. It isn't that people are magically becoming more mentally ill, but the fact it is being recognized more. Also, some of the stigmas have been lessened, so more people are seeking help.
Anyhow...i'm outta here....I'll check back after the holiday.
-p
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 780
Interesting food for thought.
Agree with some of it but some of the other info gives me an uneasy feeling of
doubt...will have to re read and digest some more. Ped has good points regarding
diagnosis and the "coming out of the closet" as it were of the mentally ill and how the stigma has been lessened.
Agree with some of it but some of the other info gives me an uneasy feeling of
doubt...will have to re read and digest some more. Ped has good points regarding
diagnosis and the "coming out of the closet" as it were of the mentally ill and how the stigma has been lessened.
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
I understand there are different views about drugs. However, from experence people should only stop under a doctors care. When first comming around AA, many old timers pushed new people to stop medication, saying they couldn't consider themself sober.
One of my friends stoped taking medication so that he could recieve his 30 day chip. He never recieved the 30 day chip. Not because he drank again but, be cause he killed himself being off the medication. I have decided that leaving this post for information is the best route to take. However Bike, I'm concerned that this link is mostly expressing their own adjenda. unless I missed it, no place did they take the health of those patients on medication, when telling them to stop. Are they suggesting that today I flush my Meds and stop taking them? There is no mention, that I saw, to consult ones doctor. Even if they don't like Heathcare professionals, they should at least warn people to see their regular doctor before stopping. I've seen simalr groups have the same issues with Blood pressure meds, heart meds etc. The is a guy on TV pushing people to stop cancer medications etc. Knowing you I believe you are simply trying to pass alternative solutions along. But, knowing you, I don't think you'd suggest stopping without medical advice. Right?
One of my friends stoped taking medication so that he could recieve his 30 day chip. He never recieved the 30 day chip. Not because he drank again but, be cause he killed himself being off the medication. I have decided that leaving this post for information is the best route to take. However Bike, I'm concerned that this link is mostly expressing their own adjenda. unless I missed it, no place did they take the health of those patients on medication, when telling them to stop. Are they suggesting that today I flush my Meds and stop taking them? There is no mention, that I saw, to consult ones doctor. Even if they don't like Heathcare professionals, they should at least warn people to see their regular doctor before stopping. I've seen simalr groups have the same issues with Blood pressure meds, heart meds etc. The is a guy on TV pushing people to stop cancer medications etc. Knowing you I believe you are simply trying to pass alternative solutions along. But, knowing you, I don't think you'd suggest stopping without medical advice. Right?
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
I agree with Peda. I too only skimmed it also.
#1: The article is very slanted/biased.
#2: The author offers hardly ANY sources for his claims or information so it could ALL be made up or misrepresented information to fit this persons agenda.
And there is also a contidiction in the information, unless i'm missing something because the first sentence says:
Then a few paragraphs down it says:
okay....never mind....i see that the writer is saying 5-fold for americans and 6-fold for the world, but it's badly written. The two figures should have been stated in the same sentence for conciseness and for comparison and clarity.
There is also another factor to look at for why the numbers could be on the rise....Many mental illnesses are spread along family lines so each generations produces more and more posibilities for people to be born with mental illnesses. It's not only progressive in individuals, it's progressive in family lines and will continue to multiply until the end of time or until cures are found. (same with alcohol and severe co-dependency, in my opinion, but that's another story)
And still yet....these days you have general physicians diagnosing and treating depression and mental illness and they don't spend much time diagnosing b/c that's not what they are trained to do. So when patients come in saying they are depressed (even if it's natural depression from a bad break-up or death), the docs just hand out meds left and right.
And still yet...there are ADS on T.V....telling people what the symptoms are and some peeps are realizing things they hadn't known before b/c of lack of education.
And still yet.... insurance companies pay for doctor visits and meds unlike any other time in our history so more people are able to seek treatment for depression and other psychiatric illnesses.
Just my thoughts on it all...
#1: The article is very slanted/biased.
#2: The author offers hardly ANY sources for his claims or information so it could ALL be made up or misrepresented information to fit this persons agenda.
And there is also a contidiction in the information, unless i'm missing something because the first sentence says:
The percentage of Americans disabled by mental illness has increased fivefold since 1955, when Thorazine - remembered today as psychiatry's first "wonder" drug - was introduced into the market.
The number of disabled mentally ill has increased nearly six-fold since Thorazine was introduced.
There is also another factor to look at for why the numbers could be on the rise....Many mental illnesses are spread along family lines so each generations produces more and more posibilities for people to be born with mental illnesses. It's not only progressive in individuals, it's progressive in family lines and will continue to multiply until the end of time or until cures are found. (same with alcohol and severe co-dependency, in my opinion, but that's another story)
And still yet....these days you have general physicians diagnosing and treating depression and mental illness and they don't spend much time diagnosing b/c that's not what they are trained to do. So when patients come in saying they are depressed (even if it's natural depression from a bad break-up or death), the docs just hand out meds left and right.
And still yet...there are ADS on T.V....telling people what the symptoms are and some peeps are realizing things they hadn't known before b/c of lack of education.
And still yet.... insurance companies pay for doctor visits and meds unlike any other time in our history so more people are able to seek treatment for depression and other psychiatric illnesses.
Just my thoughts on it all...
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
Also....does anyone remember what use to happen to mentally ill people?????
I know a guy who is schizophrenic and his grandfather was bipolar and they tortured that poor man by extreme and unprove "treatment" measuers by throwing him off cliffs into icy lakes and doing electro-shock without anestetics and many other things. He was committed at age 20 or 30 and spent the rest of his life in an institution for having the same thing many of us have!
Unless you WERE absolutely crazy back then there's no way in the world you would offer yourself up to that kind of torture to try to resolve some of your sypmtoms of mental illness! Suffering silently was a much better choice don't you agree??!
I know a guy who is schizophrenic and his grandfather was bipolar and they tortured that poor man by extreme and unprove "treatment" measuers by throwing him off cliffs into icy lakes and doing electro-shock without anestetics and many other things. He was committed at age 20 or 30 and spent the rest of his life in an institution for having the same thing many of us have!
Unless you WERE absolutely crazy back then there's no way in the world you would offer yourself up to that kind of torture to try to resolve some of your sypmtoms of mental illness! Suffering silently was a much better choice don't you agree??!
A picture's worth a 1000 words
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: With any luck, I'm lost in a view finder
Posts: 2,954
bikewench....like Don, i don't think you had any ill intentions in posting this, but PLEASE, PLEASE, as a journalist, I'm begging you and everyone else who reads this:...
PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!
-look for the sources of where the info is coming from. Is it coming from the writer or from reputable sources.
-also...is the distributing site or publication reputable? For example, I would trust info being reported from Dateline, ABC News, CNN, the BBC, or the New York Times who have standerd journlistic principals in place to keep articles nuetral, so READERS CAN DECIDE!! It's NOT the author's place to decide what's true or not....it's YOURS! Those organizations also have fact-checkers in place to reduce errors or un-truths from making it into publication.
I'm not saying that individual groups or organizations are never to be trusted. I personally trust much of the information I read from NAMI because misleading readers will only harm the intent of the organization and the information I get from them appears reliable, IMHO. They are there to help not harm so they have no reason to report things in a biased manner.
Sorry if you guys think i'm going over-board on all this, but I've known a lot of people who read things once and believe every bit of it. My mom still thinks you can catch a cold from being out in the cold and she still thinks you can catch hypotitis from sitting up a public toilet or drinking from a water fountain. I have tried to explain and present info to her that shows you can't catch anything from a toilet seat unless you have open wounds on your skin, but she refuses to believe me or anyone else --- all because of something she read 15-20 years ago! I also have an uncle, on my dad's side, who is the same way and freaks out any time he gets an e-mail that says to beware of some "new" danger in the world!
Kinda like those people who think using your cell phone while gasing up can cause a fire! Even my old editor believes that one, yet i've watched several different types of media and experiments that prove no such thing will happen.
Just be always sceptical of what you read, watch or hear....please.
PLEASE DON'T BELIEVE EVERYTHING YOU READ!
-look for the sources of where the info is coming from. Is it coming from the writer or from reputable sources.
-also...is the distributing site or publication reputable? For example, I would trust info being reported from Dateline, ABC News, CNN, the BBC, or the New York Times who have standerd journlistic principals in place to keep articles nuetral, so READERS CAN DECIDE!! It's NOT the author's place to decide what's true or not....it's YOURS! Those organizations also have fact-checkers in place to reduce errors or un-truths from making it into publication.
I'm not saying that individual groups or organizations are never to be trusted. I personally trust much of the information I read from NAMI because misleading readers will only harm the intent of the organization and the information I get from them appears reliable, IMHO. They are there to help not harm so they have no reason to report things in a biased manner.
Sorry if you guys think i'm going over-board on all this, but I've known a lot of people who read things once and believe every bit of it. My mom still thinks you can catch a cold from being out in the cold and she still thinks you can catch hypotitis from sitting up a public toilet or drinking from a water fountain. I have tried to explain and present info to her that shows you can't catch anything from a toilet seat unless you have open wounds on your skin, but she refuses to believe me or anyone else --- all because of something she read 15-20 years ago! I also have an uncle, on my dad's side, who is the same way and freaks out any time he gets an e-mail that says to beware of some "new" danger in the world!
Kinda like those people who think using your cell phone while gasing up can cause a fire! Even my old editor believes that one, yet i've watched several different types of media and experiments that prove no such thing will happen.
Just be always sceptical of what you read, watch or hear....please.
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
I would like to add the following. Years ago as a salesman I learned that if you had to down another product to sell your own, then you haven't much faith in your own. I've seen many on other threads promote their groups by downing other groups. You should go to my group because AA sticks. You should try my recovery because Smart is no good. In many cases someone is trying to get a share of the $$ spent on mental health. Working in the health field, I can tell you mental health is big $$. Not only to doctors but, hospitals. There are very few physical ailments that insurence companies will allow you to stay in a hospital for longer than a week or so. Heart surgery patients are up the next day and out of the hospital to a lesser expensive rehabilatation center. Like I said, there is a guy on informicials that talks of the same as this article. Of course he wants you to buiy his $29 book. You all know the one. Not once does he mention the safe transfer of exising plan to his plan. He wants you to treat yourself with his book. What if the people the have the adjendas are wrong? The reason, like shutterbug mentioned, for more people being treated is because the stigma of mental illness is being lifted. The old school of thought that a woman must have brought rape on or how can something 30 years ago bother them, and just because he has nightmares, why can't he go back to the front lines. My distant cousin, became an epiletic after world war I. For years after returning home he hid in the bedroom when we visited. Plowed the fields in upstate New York at night. In fear of having a seizure and someone seeing it. I had trouble enought admitting to you here, complete strangers that I was sexually abused as a child. What are these people going to do? Tell me to stuff the feelings or eat a carrot? Hey for years I tried to stay sober without mental help or medication. It didn't work. You see, like they themself said. Try our way or nothing. They don't mention that if yopu fail with this, return to a doctor.
There is no perfect program as they proclaim, just like there are no perfect doctors.
I see these same people putting flyers under wipers and signs all over lamp posts near my home. They actually claim to be protecting the enviroment also, as their flyers with toxic ink and tape with latex are thrown on the ground within sight of the resevior near my home. Maybe that is the reason for the increase in mental illness. People are drinking their poison.
There is no perfect program as they proclaim, just like there are no perfect doctors.
I see these same people putting flyers under wipers and signs all over lamp posts near my home. They actually claim to be protecting the enviroment also, as their flyers with toxic ink and tape with latex are thrown on the ground within sight of the resevior near my home. Maybe that is the reason for the increase in mental illness. People are drinking their poison.
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
Shutterbug, Don't get me going. I also have issues with people agaist SUV's and the fuel they use. Of course, this is while they drive by at 100+ mph in their volvo. And of couse the one's worried about second hand smoke as the eat their MacDonald french fries and feed them to the kids they're protecting from the smoke. Of course, to listen to some that's MacDonald's fault also. You see what happens when we get political? The next time I'm in a jungle, I'll also remind the animals they sholdn't eat meat, as they look at me lapping their chops. Smile.
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 32
Don W,
I am curious as to why you seem to take the position that the author of this piece is "selling something". If anything, he seems to be against doing so (the selling of psych. meds). As too whether or not his arguments are backed by legitimate studies, i am sure that the referenced works probably contain citations and could be checked.
Yes, the author has an obvious viewpoint which is different from the status quo and may cause people discomfort; but, IMO I think he makes a number of good points about the questionable long-term impact of many these drugs. I think its good to hear from voices like his (which are often drowned out), especially when millions of millions of dollars, (not to mention our health) are at stake.
I am curious as to why you seem to take the position that the author of this piece is "selling something". If anything, he seems to be against doing so (the selling of psych. meds). As too whether or not his arguments are backed by legitimate studies, i am sure that the referenced works probably contain citations and could be checked.
Yes, the author has an obvious viewpoint which is different from the status quo and may cause people discomfort; but, IMO I think he makes a number of good points about the questionable long-term impact of many these drugs. I think its good to hear from voices like his (which are often drowned out), especially when millions of millions of dollars, (not to mention our health) are at stake.
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
Even if he isn't selling something. he does not mention that people should safely remove themselves from drugs. Maybe not this person but, the person on the TV wants you to buy his book. I've just seen to many terrible stories about people not taking the medication and bad happening. I just feel things like this should be clearly stated as an alternative treatment. I know people that have been helped with aternative methods. in fact the hospital I work at among others are being more open to these. Some of these articles are more against a certain profession than a desire to help people. I failed to see in this article any suggest as to what the person should do if this method didn't work. Anyway, I think this subject is difficult to talk about because it is so complex. You bring up a good concern about the affects of these drugs. However, you don't suggest that people no longer see their doctor as this author does. Thanks for your imput. by talking we learn from each other. This isn't an all or nothing type of issue. Even this autor brings up good information. i just don't care for the manner in which he presents it.
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: wellington al
Posts: 5
don't stop taking meds i learn the hard way i had 21 years sober and got drunk because i thought i could stop taking my meds. it was the most painful thing i ever experienced. it took several years of working w/doctors and counselors to get me back to some sanity and to forgive myself. i live happy joyous and free today because i follow direction and gave UP my MD. plus aa is still helping people get sober and say sober know matter what.
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Anytown, USA
Posts: 1,019
Going 'cold turkey' off of meds can cause:
-mild to severe side effects (withdrawl, tremors, etc)
-possible permenant damage / death
-The more severe problems that people don't think of include: involuntary induced psychosis, triggering a rapid cycle (for bi-polars), disassociation, catatonia, etc.
Bottom Line: Never ever EVER take your meds management into your own hands. It is a very complex process, and if you are not supervised by a professional, you are putting yourself in severe risk.
-p
-mild to severe side effects (withdrawl, tremors, etc)
-possible permenant damage / death
-The more severe problems that people don't think of include: involuntary induced psychosis, triggering a rapid cycle (for bi-polars), disassociation, catatonia, etc.
Bottom Line: Never ever EVER take your meds management into your own hands. It is a very complex process, and if you are not supervised by a professional, you are putting yourself in severe risk.
-p
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Charleston S.C.
Posts: 1,461
Thank you all. I wasn't trying to be controversial. Like you bigdaddy, a few months ago i stopped on my own. I went downhill very quickly. My own feeling is that people have difficulty with medications when they put too much expectations and don't educate themselves about the side affects. I'm also concerned with both self medication and self unmedicating.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: western canada
Posts: 1,441
Hey all...
I've avoided coming back here...
I have some thoughts and they are mine... but.. they are not pro medication.. that's for sure...
I have struggled with anxiety, depression, polarized behavior, suicidal tendencies..
and I have always self medicated to try and cope with all this.
I have tried so many times in the past to talk to my doctors about it...
but the shame of my addictions.. the bulimia.. sex issues... yadda yadda yadda....
I would start to open...
and then they must have grasped how big the problem was I was gonna be... and they started talking shrinks and medications...
who me..??
no way..
nothing wrong with me that fixing everyone else wont' fix..,.. ;o)
And so I stewed...
made life hell for everyone...
puked my stuff all over the place...
felt like the walking dead...
and then found the program.
Slowly.. started changing behaviors...
and other things changed as a result...
life got easier...
changed some more...
easier still
got triggered to flippin back into my sick place many times...
worked my way out...
and then...
4 years ago.. I started to cry.
and really began to seek for the answers...
What I think today that prompted me to post this thread is that...
I think that what I think creates emotions...
and emotions create a chemical reaction in my body and mind...
and negative emotions create a toxic chemical imbalance in my persona...
psychotropics put a lid on this...
and the emotional negative abscess is never drained.
I believe today that my body/mind inherently knows how to right itself if I just allow it to do that...
but.. our families.. work... committments...
they don't allow us the time and space to work through our shyte... so... we are stuck in coping hell.
using meds that could conceivably do the things those articles say they do...
like make it harder to get well.
I love all you guys...
and my struggle is the same as yours...
I just think we could maybe question the use of these drugs... and research for ourselves what they are truly doing...
Are we really taking pills just to conquer our own thoughts..??
I've avoided coming back here...
I have some thoughts and they are mine... but.. they are not pro medication.. that's for sure...
I have struggled with anxiety, depression, polarized behavior, suicidal tendencies..
and I have always self medicated to try and cope with all this.
I have tried so many times in the past to talk to my doctors about it...
but the shame of my addictions.. the bulimia.. sex issues... yadda yadda yadda....
I would start to open...
and then they must have grasped how big the problem was I was gonna be... and they started talking shrinks and medications...
who me..??
no way..
nothing wrong with me that fixing everyone else wont' fix..,.. ;o)
And so I stewed...
made life hell for everyone...
puked my stuff all over the place...
felt like the walking dead...
and then found the program.
Slowly.. started changing behaviors...
and other things changed as a result...
life got easier...
changed some more...
easier still
got triggered to flippin back into my sick place many times...
worked my way out...
and then...
4 years ago.. I started to cry.
and really began to seek for the answers...
What I think today that prompted me to post this thread is that...
I think that what I think creates emotions...
and emotions create a chemical reaction in my body and mind...
and negative emotions create a toxic chemical imbalance in my persona...
psychotropics put a lid on this...
and the emotional negative abscess is never drained.
I believe today that my body/mind inherently knows how to right itself if I just allow it to do that...
but.. our families.. work... committments...
they don't allow us the time and space to work through our shyte... so... we are stuck in coping hell.
using meds that could conceivably do the things those articles say they do...
like make it harder to get well.
I love all you guys...
and my struggle is the same as yours...
I just think we could maybe question the use of these drugs... and research for ourselves what they are truly doing...
Are we really taking pills just to conquer our own thoughts..??
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