Threads getting shut....
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
OMG Mike... so before I post I need to consider that a newbie might get scared away, people might think that DRs are not required for detox, people might not seek out a 12 step program, AND KNOW children might be reading a post and the no-curse word program might miss it?!?!?!?
I think we WILL need a bunch of those predetermined response buttons.
I think we WILL need a bunch of those predetermined response buttons.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
Jazz, I think I love you.
Mike - you're not doing your health any favours by taking all of that on your shoulders. You can't save everyone, try though you might. A "knock it off, you lot" post by a mod in the middle of a thread often works wonders. It doesn't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut - just something public to break the momentum of those hammering away at the keyboard.
Mike - you're not doing your health any favours by taking all of that on your shoulders. You can't save everyone, try though you might. A "knock it off, you lot" post by a mod in the middle of a thread often works wonders. It doesn't need a sledgehammer to crack a nut - just something public to break the momentum of those hammering away at the keyboard.
Administrator
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: CA
Posts: 10,681
It wouldn't hurt to go down to the rules forum and read them again. If everyone would try to follow the forum rules there shouldn't be a problem. Mike has given his explanation of the rules. I may have another explanation, but that doesn't change the rules. Kids or no kids-Newcomers or no Newcomers, the rules remain the same.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...gulations.html
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...gulations.html
To Life!
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 9,293
Five;
SURELY you are not saying that childish bickering; outright brawling and namecalling could not turn away a newcomer??????
Give me a break!
I'm an old timer here, and I've been so turned off by some of the threads myself that I've left not to return to them.
Come on now; just a little bit of intellectual honesty.
And frankly, if that behavior means someone else's recovery is delayed -- possible forever given the very real problem of overdose and death -- then we are not adhering to our mission....
To help or be helped.
Thanks for understanding that the rules exist for a reason. And that reason is the benefit of all.
Shalom!
SURELY you are not saying that childish bickering; outright brawling and namecalling could not turn away a newcomer??????
Give me a break!
I'm an old timer here, and I've been so turned off by some of the threads myself that I've left not to return to them.
Come on now; just a little bit of intellectual honesty.
And frankly, if that behavior means someone else's recovery is delayed -- possible forever given the very real problem of overdose and death -- then we are not adhering to our mission....
To help or be helped.
Thanks for understanding that the rules exist for a reason. And that reason is the benefit of all.
Shalom!
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
I'm still pretty new here, and for what it's worth I'd just like to add- not for the sake of pouring fuel on the fire but just for the sake of commenting on this forum, which can be enormously helpful for people- there have been comments made and attitudes displayed here that have turned me off big time, to the point where I've taken a few days' break from this board. And I know for a fact that many times when I've felt this way, I was not alone.
I'm not even in quite as vulnerable or impressionable a place as others who come here may be. And as a newcomer who is only in the beginning stages of learning about recovery, I have to admit one thing: there have been times when observing certain people here that I've asked myself-- if this is what it means to be healthy and 'recovered,' is this really the kind of person I want to be?
I'm not one to participate too much in internet battles, or to report people or any of that. But this place is a good lesson in 'take what you need and leave the rest.' The reason I agree with the rules that are maintained here is because even that outlook is something that takes strength, a basic sense of self, and some understanding of the recovery process for one to even put it into effect. (I had to work on that much myself.)
Some people here are way too hard on others right off the bat, during their most vulnerable moments. And they're probably trying to help, in their own way. But for people who are going through really difficult situations in which their emotions and thinking has become skewed, the last thing they need is ridicule on the internet, in a place they came to looking for help and clarity. Yet the only part of this board where I really find this problem is in Friends & Family; things seem to stay more respectful elsewhere, as far as I've seen anyway. Again I'm new here, might be wrong about that.
Just my opinion. What I consider basic respect, others may call coddling. But if this place is supposed to welcome a free but respectul expression of opinion, then that's mine.
Thanks.
I'm not even in quite as vulnerable or impressionable a place as others who come here may be. And as a newcomer who is only in the beginning stages of learning about recovery, I have to admit one thing: there have been times when observing certain people here that I've asked myself-- if this is what it means to be healthy and 'recovered,' is this really the kind of person I want to be?
I'm not one to participate too much in internet battles, or to report people or any of that. But this place is a good lesson in 'take what you need and leave the rest.' The reason I agree with the rules that are maintained here is because even that outlook is something that takes strength, a basic sense of self, and some understanding of the recovery process for one to even put it into effect. (I had to work on that much myself.)
Some people here are way too hard on others right off the bat, during their most vulnerable moments. And they're probably trying to help, in their own way. But for people who are going through really difficult situations in which their emotions and thinking has become skewed, the last thing they need is ridicule on the internet, in a place they came to looking for help and clarity. Yet the only part of this board where I really find this problem is in Friends & Family; things seem to stay more respectful elsewhere, as far as I've seen anyway. Again I'm new here, might be wrong about that.
Just my opinion. What I consider basic respect, others may call coddling. But if this place is supposed to welcome a free but respectul expression of opinion, then that's mine.
Thanks.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Sussex, NJ
Posts: 1,331
All internet discussion forums have rules and most follow the same principle as just plain old "good manners".
You think this one is bad, go to a Dog Breed board (those folks, myself included, should only behave as good as their dogs! LOL) .... now those boards are not for the faint of heart and insults sugarcoated can be just as deadly and self-image destroying as any.
Take it all with a grain of salt people and consider the source. If someone doesn't like a posters replies or simply does not feel they care for that particular poster, simply don't read them. It's not hard to do.
However, if you know someone is going to upset you just by posting and you still go ahead and read their posts, then IMVHO, you get what you deserve. This advice I would give to my own children, and I have. You give what you get.
You think this one is bad, go to a Dog Breed board (those folks, myself included, should only behave as good as their dogs! LOL) .... now those boards are not for the faint of heart and insults sugarcoated can be just as deadly and self-image destroying as any.
Take it all with a grain of salt people and consider the source. If someone doesn't like a posters replies or simply does not feel they care for that particular poster, simply don't read them. It's not hard to do.
However, if you know someone is going to upset you just by posting and you still go ahead and read their posts, then IMVHO, you get what you deserve. This advice I would give to my own children, and I have. You give what you get.
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 5,075
Originally Posted by Jazzman
Hey wait a minute here.... You mean we could be getting paid for providing all this entertainment?!?!?
Mike - are you calling us boring?
Patty - good thread - not boring at all LOL
I understand the rules, but I do kinda hate seeing things locked. I'm just from the school of thought that you never know what nugget you'll find or who will be reached by wherever the thread takes itself (decency assumed). You know, sometimes I hate when I can see both sides. Makes me very wishy washy.
Jazz, you are lovable - my laugh out loud for the day
Occasional poor taste poster
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,542
Deax, a poster can be historically abrasive but not enough to get banned. Nothing can be done about that but an abrasive poster can be placed on an "ignore list" in the user control panel. That way you wont see posts from that user.
I can think of a few co workers that I would love to put on my ignore list. Wish I had a button for that!
Posts that break the rules of indecency should be deleted and no explanation is even owed IMO, or at least I sure wouldn't waiste my time.
I can think of a few co workers that I would love to put on my ignore list. Wish I had a button for that!
Posts that break the rules of indecency should be deleted and no explanation is even owed IMO, or at least I sure wouldn't waiste my time.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I was part of the conversation that was locked. I could tell that it was possibly going to a bad place BUT in my opinion it wasn't there yet. I think a simple "warning" or "please read the rules and stay on topic" would have been nice. I thought it was going fine at the point it was. It could have been watched and then if/when it got bad then it could have been deleted/locked/ whatever. Isn't that what moderators do, moderate? A form of babysitting.
With that said -- Mike, I don't want your job. I do not envy you. Someone else said it - may be you're putting to much on your shoulders to keep everyone here. I understand there are rules and thank goodness there are. As far as someone reading one post here and never coming back, that's on them, not me or you. It's called the real world. Everyday I hear someone say something I don't like. I get to pick my battles and make choices. The choices I make are on me no one else.
~doll
With that said -- Mike, I don't want your job. I do not envy you. Someone else said it - may be you're putting to much on your shoulders to keep everyone here. I understand there are rules and thank goodness there are. As far as someone reading one post here and never coming back, that's on them, not me or you. It's called the real world. Everyday I hear someone say something I don't like. I get to pick my battles and make choices. The choices I make are on me no one else.
~doll
Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Moderators sometimes have the unfavorable task of deciding whether to leave a thread open or close it.
Threads often go off topic but sometimes right themselves again, the problem is that sometimes, between going off topic and righting themselves things can get pretty ugly.
Moderators have to make a call based on guidelines set down in the rules and also based on the amount of time available to monitoring a thread but when a thread is closed it is usually because some rule has been infringed.
Moderators have to work with what they have and cannot devote unlimited amounts of time to watching a thread and hoping it rights itself. Sure a word of caution from a Mod can bring desirable results but that does not always work.
I have contributed to other online forums but I can say without hesitation that SR remains the most respectable one I have been a part of. That can only be contributed to the thousands of wonderful members that make SR what it is and because of the hard work that Mods, Greeters and Administrators put in.
Please let us all continue to keep this a safe and happy place for us to visit.
Now ya'll better behave before I have to shut this one down too. (heh heh jus kidding jus kidding)
Threads often go off topic but sometimes right themselves again, the problem is that sometimes, between going off topic and righting themselves things can get pretty ugly.
Moderators have to make a call based on guidelines set down in the rules and also based on the amount of time available to monitoring a thread but when a thread is closed it is usually because some rule has been infringed.
Moderators have to work with what they have and cannot devote unlimited amounts of time to watching a thread and hoping it rights itself. Sure a word of caution from a Mod can bring desirable results but that does not always work.
I have contributed to other online forums but I can say without hesitation that SR remains the most respectable one I have been a part of. That can only be contributed to the thousands of wonderful members that make SR what it is and because of the hard work that Mods, Greeters and Administrators put in.
Please let us all continue to keep this a safe and happy place for us to visit.
Now ya'll better behave before I have to shut this one down too. (heh heh jus kidding jus kidding)
Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Bronx, NY
Posts: 412
Originally Posted by Jazzman
Deax, a poster can be historically abrasive but not enough to get banned. Nothing can be done about that but an abrasive poster can be placed on an "ignore list" in the user control panel. That way you wont see posts from that user.
I can think of a few co workers that I would love to put on my ignore list. Wish I had a button for that!
I can think of a few co workers that I would love to put on my ignore list. Wish I had a button for that!
No, I wouldn't want to see anyone here get banned, nor does anyone bother me personally enought that I feel the need to officially 'ignore' them. But I just wanted to post what my experience has been for this discussion, since I know some others feel the same, and in case there are any other 'newbies' who have felt attacked and are wondering if they should stick around, which they should. You sense the feel of this place after a while. Hell- my first post here, I was brought to tears by some of the responses I got, and they weren't half as bad as what some other people get, and one of them was actually from one of the kindest people here who I have the utmost respect for! I learned how to handle it, consider it a continual part/test of my recovery in a way, but I was just saying that I support the mods in the way I've seen them do things (deleting individual posts, locking a feuding thread, etc) because I do think certain comments/ attitudes might in fact be detrimental for some... Is that the codie in me? Or is that compassion? I dunno. Anyway that's all I was gettng at.
Posts that break the rules of indecency should be deleted and no explanation is even owed IMO, or at least I sure wouldn't waiste my time.
Its_me_jen
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Salina, Ks
Posts: 8,547
I agree with what you've said here Peter but I'm not sure what rule was broken in the thread that pmaslan started. I do understand it was a topic that could get people passionate but sometimes those are good conversations.
Heck, half of the topics around here can be stressfull.
The thread was closed because of a judgement call and I will not complain about that at all. I was just curious what rule was broken.......or may be just a concern that it was going to get too ugly?
Heck, half of the topics around here can be stressfull.
The thread was closed because of a judgement call and I will not complain about that at all. I was just curious what rule was broken.......or may be just a concern that it was going to get too ugly?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
I guess I got the answer to my original post here...thank you.
I consider part of my recovery to include asking questions and
considering all possibilities. It helps me grow and see things from
others points of view.
As always it has gone off topic. I think if anyone has a complaint with
anyone they should perhaps deal with that person or simple ignore
them as has been suggested. I don't see where complaining about
the "style" of another member is beneficial to anyone, least of all
yourself. Take what you need and leave the rest....or use the ignore option.
Doesn't get any simplier than that.
I consider part of my recovery to include asking questions and
considering all possibilities. It helps me grow and see things from
others points of view.
As always it has gone off topic. I think if anyone has a complaint with
anyone they should perhaps deal with that person or simple ignore
them as has been suggested. I don't see where complaining about
the "style" of another member is beneficial to anyone, least of all
yourself. Take what you need and leave the rest....or use the ignore option.
Doesn't get any simplier than that.
Well all be 
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,333
Dolls that is why I started it...I had no idea what happened from
last evening til this morning that caused such a stir. I have since
found out through PM what happened and it wasn't my topic but
a member that got out of line.....**** happens.......
last evening til this morning that caused such a stir. I have since
found out through PM what happened and it wasn't my topic but
a member that got out of line.....**** happens.......
Member
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Starting over all over again
Posts: 4,426
Thanx for all your input. I appreciate your comments. I would appreciate further some concrete, objective guidelines as to which posts you think should be deleted, and which you think should not. I also don't have a "group conscience" from you folks as to whether I should err on the side of caution, or give a "hot post" a little rope and let it go a little wilder. Telling me that I'm doing "too much", or "not enough" is appreciated, but does not assist me in figuring out what is "just right".
It would be very helpful if you were to select one of your _own_ posts and share why you think that particular post was too rude and should have been trashed. If you can get more than half the "old-timers" to agree with you then you've got some really good ideas to share.
It would also be helpful if the next time a thread got too hot you would take it upon yourself to PM the relevant parties and see if you can get them to cool off _without_ closing the thread. Note that if your PM's result in the thread getting _worse_, and foul language getting slung around, then that is _not_ the kind of concrete example I am looking for.
As a practical example, I have a 15 year old girl who just wandered into al-anon a couple weeks ago. With a baby boy in arms. She's looking for answers as to "why he did it". The "he" she is refering to is her alcoholic father, who is currently in jail. The baby boy is both her son _and_ her brother. She'd already visited SR, and from what she told me she's lurked here quite a bit. She's too young to understand concepts like people working things out online, or people who are too direct. She's not the first one to tell me that some of the discusions here remind her too much of her alcoholic mother and father. While you are coming up with some suggestion for improvement on the guidelines for keeping vs. trashing posts, for locking vs. not locking threads, please also write me a gentle explanation to give to this girl should she ever drop by here again. Please post the explanation publicly so we can all work on it together, as a team.
As far as my health and doing too much, I appreciate your concerns. Fortunately I'm not doing this alone. There's a wonderful bunch of mods and greeters who do all that every day and much more. I'm actually the least active one of the bunch. If you thinks SR is a comfortable place where people can get some experience, strength and hope thank all the other mods and greeters who hustle every single day to keep it that way. There's a whole lot more work involved in keeping this place running that I didn't even begin to mention.
If you think the mods and greeters are doing too much you can check hundreds of other forums that are all run in different ways. If you find one that is more welcoming of the newcomers, more respectful of people's varying opinions then please take the time to find out how they do it, then come back and let us know so we can improve SR.
I would like to thank all of you who take the time to search out newcomers and welcome them here. Many of you do that even though you are not greeters. I also want to thank all of you who take the time to PM those newbies and help them figure out the "mechanics" of using this website. The real strength of SR is in the _members_ who make use of it on a daily basis, and that's you guys. Some of you don't _ever_ get hot and mouthy, and I appreciate you guys in a big way. The rest of you I also love in that special way that only recovery can create. Please keep coming back even though we don't agree. We clearly don't like each other, but we can still work together to make this forum a place of recovery, and not a place of discord.
Mike
It would be very helpful if you were to select one of your _own_ posts and share why you think that particular post was too rude and should have been trashed. If you can get more than half the "old-timers" to agree with you then you've got some really good ideas to share.
It would also be helpful if the next time a thread got too hot you would take it upon yourself to PM the relevant parties and see if you can get them to cool off _without_ closing the thread. Note that if your PM's result in the thread getting _worse_, and foul language getting slung around, then that is _not_ the kind of concrete example I am looking for.
As a practical example, I have a 15 year old girl who just wandered into al-anon a couple weeks ago. With a baby boy in arms. She's looking for answers as to "why he did it". The "he" she is refering to is her alcoholic father, who is currently in jail. The baby boy is both her son _and_ her brother. She'd already visited SR, and from what she told me she's lurked here quite a bit. She's too young to understand concepts like people working things out online, or people who are too direct. She's not the first one to tell me that some of the discusions here remind her too much of her alcoholic mother and father. While you are coming up with some suggestion for improvement on the guidelines for keeping vs. trashing posts, for locking vs. not locking threads, please also write me a gentle explanation to give to this girl should she ever drop by here again. Please post the explanation publicly so we can all work on it together, as a team.
As far as my health and doing too much, I appreciate your concerns. Fortunately I'm not doing this alone. There's a wonderful bunch of mods and greeters who do all that every day and much more. I'm actually the least active one of the bunch. If you thinks SR is a comfortable place where people can get some experience, strength and hope thank all the other mods and greeters who hustle every single day to keep it that way. There's a whole lot more work involved in keeping this place running that I didn't even begin to mention.
If you think the mods and greeters are doing too much you can check hundreds of other forums that are all run in different ways. If you find one that is more welcoming of the newcomers, more respectful of people's varying opinions then please take the time to find out how they do it, then come back and let us know so we can improve SR.
I would like to thank all of you who take the time to search out newcomers and welcome them here. Many of you do that even though you are not greeters. I also want to thank all of you who take the time to PM those newbies and help them figure out the "mechanics" of using this website. The real strength of SR is in the _members_ who make use of it on a daily basis, and that's you guys. Some of you don't _ever_ get hot and mouthy, and I appreciate you guys in a big way. The rest of you I also love in that special way that only recovery can create. Please keep coming back even though we don't agree. We clearly don't like each other, but we can still work together to make this forum a place of recovery, and not a place of discord.
Mike
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: behind the viewfinder...
Posts: 6,278
Originally Posted by DesertEyes
She'd already visited SR, and from what she told me she's lurked here quite a bit. She's too young to understand concepts like people working things out online, or people who are too direct. She's not the first one to tell me that some of the discusions here remind her too much of her alcoholic mother and father.
Moving on to my suggestions. I would like to see threads that go beyond respect and decency locked. But it really is confusing to read responses to posts that no longer exist. So my suggestion would be to leave the thread intact, warn posters that it will be locked if the disrespect continues, and then lock it if warnings are not heeded. Maybe put a post at the end that explains that this thread got out of hand and had to be locked. That way there is no confusion as to why it is locked and others can see what is not tolerated.
JMO,
L
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