Oglsby

Hello everyone,
I am not new to SR, but I did not know where to put this, so I hope it is OK in this thread.

Very long story short, I am having trouble setting boundaries in my own family. I am the youngest of five siblings, and my oldest is a sister. The rest of us are men. We lost our parents long ago.

My sister lives far away, but two brothers live close. My sister is very a very difficult person, so much so that when my mother passed away over a decade ago, my eldest brother cut ties with her. They have literally never spoken again.

She has remained uninvolved in our lives in general for a very long time now. I was a baby when she was born.

She was not exposed to my drinking, and mostly the family kept it from her because she is so judgmental.

My brothers have been great, and I have tried to make amends with them and their wives, because I did stress all of them out to the max with my drinking, and I realize and accept that some damage cannot be undone, but all I can do is try to be a better person and move on. I have apologized and have made all of the amends that I know how to make.

I am the only sibling who keeps in active touch with my sister. She does not drink and is very sanctimonious. When I finally got sober, I told her about my drinking history and for the past two years she has been very harsh with me in emails. It has gotten to the point where she literally tries to tell me what to do, and all of us are over 50 years old. I know part of it has to do with the fact that I never married and have no kids, but it has gotten ridiculous. I remind her all of the time that behavior like this is why my eldest brother no longer speaks to her, and she has minimal contact with my other brothers.

Recently her emails to me have become more and more erratic and just all over the place. She has been diagnosed with a personality disorder long ago and also suffers from anxiety and depression.

I am in a wonderful place right now, and my relationship with her is extremely stressful. I just don't know what to do, and attempts to set boundaries with her have been unsuccessful. Usually what she will do is just not contact me for 2-3 months, then send an email as though nothing has happened.

I've about had it. How much is too much to take from a family member. I have always said, 'We tolerate things from our families that we would never tolerate from friends and others."

How can I salvage something with her if she is unwilling to change. Nobody is getting any younger. Then I feel guilty because I am the only one who talks to her. She does have one son, but they are distant from each other and her husband is very old and sick.

Thanks for any advice. A HUGE part of me is telling myself to walk away, and that my eldest brother figured it out a long time ago. But I am the peace maker and try to keep everyone happy.

trailmix

Hi Oglsby! It's a difficult situation.

Yes, you can be done with it all and just not have contact with her going forward, you are allowed to! If she is only adding stress to your life, what is the point.

There is a second option - detaching. Yes she is your Sister and yes she can probably really grate on your last nerve, but you can decide to not take it to heart. She has a personality disorder, that's not going to change.

You've already basically told her you didn't need her judgements, advice, having her tell you what to do, but she's ignored you.

So detaching, if you choose to stay in contact is key. Expectations have to be lowered (a lot). You don't need to share details of your life with her, you don't need to mention anything that hasn't already been "solved", so her opinion will be moot. For instance say you have decided to take a trip, tell her the day before you leave, or better yet, check in when you get there - having a great time in Italy! That way you can keep in touch without any "advice". She can still criticize you, but remember it shouldn't be taken personally, that's not about you, it's about her.

Another way to detach is to answer (if you have to, say you are talking on the phone) with non-committal answers, it's a method called "grey rock". Replying with things like - oh really? uh huh. You may be right. Interesting.

Anyway, just a few suggestions. Only you know if you can manage to lower your expectations and not take this personally, going forward.

You know that doesn't work lol - as nice as it sounds. You certainly aren't "making her happy". No one can really, that's something she has to do for herself.

Oglsby

I have tried detaching, but have never really kept up with it on my end, so I own that. She got angry recently, and I got the millionth "I need a break and won't be emailing or answering calls for a while." What she needs a break from, I'm not really sure, but I surely need a break from her. But then, she usually decides when the "break" is over. I don't want to be passive aggressive, but maybe we have different ideas of what that amount of time will be, LOL.

Thanks for your kind response. I'm pretty sick of her but the bottom line is I DO allow her to get under my skin, so I am the one giving her that power. I need to work on that.

trailmix

When you read her email, maybe just think - not my circus!

Yes, it's hard, it has to be an ongoing, every day thing, not something you just steel yourself for. It's kind a different way of looking at a person. It's defense. Detaching also means pulling back your caring, caring about what she is up to, caring about what she says, that's never easy and on different days you will have more or less success.

There is a great book called Codependent no more, by Melody Beattie - just to clarify, I am in no way saying you are codependent! The book just has a lot of useful information on relationships and boundaries and you might find it useful to apply some of the principals and it might help change your overall view on those interactions.

Oglsby

Thank you! I have heard of that book before and would love to pick it up.

In my family, my parents kept us all very close together, but when they passed away, instead of all of us staying close we all kind of went our own separate ways. I am the only one who keeps in touch with everyone regularly, but it is exhausting. I have come to terms with the fact that maybe they just don't want that anymore.

My sister is 16 years older than I, and we look at the world VERY differently. She's not one to encourage but she is quick to critique. I also know that we do WAY better when we just email and not actually talk on the phone. She literally has all of the answers, and I can't recall her genuinely apologizing for anything. She has borderline personality disorder, and you probably know a lot about that. It is a very hard disorder to deal with, and is complex, and she just stays stuck in circles that I don't see changing. So I have to be the one to make the change and interact differently and, sadly, probably much less.

EveningRose

I guess no one can really tell you what the right thing is to do. If you can detach and maintain some bare minimum of a relationship, that's one way but if she doesn't want to change she won't. It seems nothing else has made it important enough to her to change her ways so she'll almost certainly continue exactly as she has been doing.

I personally just quit going to family events when I got tired of the behavior. When my dad got abusive on the phone, calling me an a$$hole among other things, I blocked his #. When I got abuse by way of email, I blocked that.

My experience is that I haven't missed a single one of my family members, which tells me their behavior really was that bad.

Oglsby

Thanks a lot you guys and Evening Rose, I think you might have nailed it with a bare minimum relationship. I have not heard from her now in a week and I feel so much better. The truth is, I don't really miss her. She is THAT negative. My brothers have told me for YEARS to do this, but then I always end up feeling sorry for her and reach out. Every time I do she slaps my hand. The next time she emails I am going to be very generic and not address anything specific, and if she says anything rude I'll not respond at all.

Oglsby

Hey everyone,
Just a little update. I have not heard from my sister in over a week and, I must confess, it feels amazing. Being honest with myself, I am not sure what she brings to the table for me that is healthy. My partner of 24 years wants me to be done with her. I know sooner or later I will receive one of her emails that will either be as though nothing happened or a rant, since I have not tried to contact her, which is unusual for me. My oldest brother who has not spoken to her in 13 years thinks I should be done with her for good. I really am considering this. It never, ever goes well with her, and I am happier without her in my life. She does not live close and has not been a part of my family's life for a long time. She also has a daughter who I love, who can handle any stress that she might be having. Any thoughts on a total no-contact would be appreciated. I am still thinking of bare minimum as Evening Rose suggested, but with my sister it seems to be all-or-nothing. Thanks for all of the suggestions.

dbyrer

Here's my 2 cents: Your sister is not giving this any thought. Everything is fine as far as she is concerned. She will never notice or care what you do or do not do. Taking how you imagine she may feel or how you imagine your relationship with her COULD be out of the equation, ask yourself what you want to do in the situation as it is right now. What action that you do will make you the happiest, knowing nothing else is going to change. Then do that. If you find it doesn't suit your needs, you can always do something else later. With my sisters, I send the occasional text about the weather or a photo of wildlife. I send a heart emoji when they text something about their kids. We get along great this way. YMMV.

EveningRose

I'm pretty much no-contact with all of my family. Interestingly, while I know they say I cut ties with them, it's more like what you're describing. You haven't contacted your sister and...she also has not contacted you. After one day of my mother going on and on and on with her negativity, including at and about me, I wished her a happy birthday, left, and didn't call again. She has never called me, either, including when I went through a divorce, when my daughter was in surgery and my younger kids home alone or when I went through surgery myself. Yet somehow...I'm the one who 'cut ties.'

Had she ever called, I would have answered, been polite, and found an excuse to hang up when she started getting negative.

Similar with my older sister. I told her a couple of times she needed to deal with her temper. She sent a card or two of how she luuuuuuved me, with no acknowledgment that she had to deal with her anger. Years went by of her cavorting with my kids in my front yard while clearly snubbing me and then one day she went nuts at my kid's wedding hanging all over me, being 'cute,' saying to strangers, Can't you see we're sisters, acting like we're the best of friends. I think she could tell I was drawing away like, Are you crazy? So the next day she was back to snubbing me.

I guess I don't know if that helps. Just my experience. If they'd ever tried to talk with me or act sane or be nice, that door was always open. They made little to no attempt (and as I said, one such 'attempt' involved calling me an a$$hole, like that was going to draw me back to the family fold) and I have not missed them or missed how they treated me.

Oglsby

ER,
Thank you for your post, it is actually very helpful. DB yours, too.

I think what is happening in my life is since I now have a few years of sobriety underneath my belt I am realizing some ugly truths about my family (in particular, my sister) that I always kind of knew and never really dealt with. I had a traumatic childhood because of a sibling's death when I was very young, and my parents were good people but were wrapped up in their own pain. This was in the 70s when it wasn't very popular to get therapy of any sort, and my oldest siblings moved away and never really came to see about me and my next brother up, so we grew up seeing our parents in pain and unable to get much outside their pain to help us.

I viewed my sister almost as a parent, but if I am honest, she never really acted that way. Our age difference just made me latch onto her, but there wasn't much substantive there.

When my mother passed away a decade ago and both of my parents were gone, it was very difficult for me because my family just moved apart, or so it seemed to me. Maybe they were always like that more than I like to admit, but I felt a need to try to rally everyone together. It never worked. I am very close to all of my brothers, however, and I am thankful for that. My sister really shouldn't be a focus of mine, because again--if I face it--there was never really a time she was great to me. Thanks everyone. I think what is happening is I am finally coming to terms with the state of my family that has always probably been not as great as I had wished.

Eauchiche

Dear Oglsby
I would swear that you and I are from the same family and were separated at birth. The only difference is, I am the oldest child in my family. I have been "no contact" with both my younger sisters for 7 years.
The middle child in my family is the ringleader. I refer to her as the Toxic Matriarch. Our parents have been dead for many years. The younger sister is toxic in her own right, but does whatever the matriarch says.
Within the past year, the matriarch reached out to my cousin across country and tried to enlist her help to rope me back into the fold. I had a candid conversation with the cousin where I told her everything the matriarch had done to me. At one point, I almost got a restraining order against her, she was so crazy. The cousin saw the light after I told her everything.

I can assure you that my life is better with those two and their spouses. I do not regret going no contact with them.

Eauchiche

I meant WITHOUT those two....

Oglsby

Thanks so much. She and I have not talked now for two weeks, and I know I have made the right choice.

I had something significant happen in the past 2 weeks that was family-known, and she made no effort to contact me. I am done. This has gone on long enough.

I was fooled to think she ever really cared. If I am honest with myself all she has ever done is criticize me (which is humorous, because I am successful and sober now for several years).

It is difficult having several siblings. I do love my brothers very much and we don't talk all of the time, but they are good to me.

Your post helped me a lot. Thank you.

trailmix

I'm glad you were able to do this Oglsby, it will make your life less stressful/happier - which is sad considering, but she has nothing to offer anyone really, which you have no control over.

Oglsby

Thanks Trailmix,
I have been sad for many years about my relationship with her, and I just figured that it was now or never. None of us is getting younger, and my eldest brother has not spoken to her for 13 years. I do feel bad that she has psychological issues, but never once has she made a sincere effort to work on things and yet expects the world of those around her. This is true in that literally none of my other siblings have spoken to her in years. One of my sister-in-laws will send her an email 2 or 3 times a year.

I never mentioned this earlier, but it has actually been 8 years since I have physically seen her. I have a partner of 24 years she has never accepted and 8 years ago I told her I would not be visiting in person again until she was willing to see him, too. She never budged. I have so much more to do in my life and I really need to give all of this to God and move on.

She has a loving daughter who has always also had many issues with her, and this daughter is no longer a child--she is 40 years old. I always remind myself that I am not my sister's child and cannot and do not have to be there for her when she finally decides she is ready or needs something (she'll never be ready, but she'll want lots of attention when her husband passes away. I can't do it.)

I feel free and though that fact feels sad, it has been years of unhealthy back-and-forths between us that I just do not need anymore, especially now that I have been sober for several years. Thanks for your kind words.

FreeOwl

Hey Oglesby. My daughter has emerging BPD. Her mother very likely has it (exhibits all nine traits in spades) but won’t go near enough to mental health professionals to be diagnosed.

its A really tough disorder and honestly the only thing we can really do is practice radical acceptance and detachment - or love them from a distance and wish them well in our prayers while going no contact.

there’s a forum at BPD family that has been helpful to me over the years. Also, using DBT can be beneficial.

I feel for you.

I believe my younger sister may also have struggled with BPD, alongside her alcoholism. I wound up going no contact about 6 months before she passed at age 28 of her alcoholism. It weighs on me now.

my heart goes out to you…. These are such tricky and heartbreaking situations.

codependent no more was a helpful book for me as well.

Oglsby

Thanks FreeOwl, your post just nailed it for me. I think the hardest part for me is my sister has so little insight into her behavior and just can never really see herself or the consequences of her actions, and that is not going to ever change at her age. I am the youngest by many, many years and she is the oldest (MUCH older)

So, as expected, I got an email from her yesterday. I had promised I would not read it but I did. It was only one sentence: "I just want you to know that I am not mad at you and I love you, I just needed a break." I have not responded and do not intend to, because her implication is that she needed a break from me.

It is SO hard though, because of course I would love to have my say, but it would accomplish nothing except me losing control yet again and empowering her even more. Her actions have shown time and time again that she does not really care about me, and I know that. What she is surprised about is that the last time I emailed her was three weeks ago, so I am sure she is curious where my head is at. I just can't keep the madness going.

Oglsby

Just a little update. On 7/14--the 13th anniversary of our mom's death, I got one of THE most hurtful emails my sister has ever sent. I was pissed at myself that I read it at all, but I promised myself I would not respond to it, and I did not. I am glad I read it because eventually I would have felt guilty that I was not reaching out.

Like The Exorcist, my sister mixes lies with the truth in just the most hurtful ways. Each day that has passed I feel better and better about my decision to cut contact. She is not healthy in my life. It is no wonder my siblings do not keep in touch with her.

I've journaled about it a lot and am EXTREMELY proud of myself for not responding. Thanks for everyone's support. My other siblings have been wonderful lately.

trailmix

Sorry she wrote you that horrible email Oglsby.

You know one other thing that might help is thinking of her as being in her own world, because basically she is. Her world, her perceptions are not yours and never will be.

So when you think of her, you can think - Well I guess in <her name> world, that all sounds reasonable. In <her name> world, I hope she figures this out.

It's just kind of another way to separate yourself and detach - she isn't in the same world as you are, she is in one of her own making (well we all are to some degree, just that hers is very skewed).