SadPArtner

I am seeing on websites, youtube, conferences, etc that many therapists propose that you should not intervene and let things happen naturally. Just protect yourself (¿?)

That will solve the problem in some way.
They will suddenly REALIZE once you stop confronting them and stop trying to hold them accountable for the unnecesary misery they bring to the table

However, my ex A was binge drinking ( and may be doing some cocaine ) at least a few years before I know her ....and nobody was there playing "the boring guy" or "the controller"
And that didn´t make any improvement

hence my presence in her life sadly didn´t change anything , for worst or for better.

Actually, during one of our breakups she has had several episodes quite embarrassing due to alcohol, I know because some friends saw her.

So..... I dunno what to think....

Will she stay in that "binge state" of the illness for ever?
will she REALIZE and get help?
Will she finally become a full blown alcoholic?

PeacefulWater12

Hey Sad Partner

I think we need to focus on ourselves, look at why we were attracted to alcoholics/addicts/abusive people. Usually this means looking at our childhood and the patterns we developed. So we can change and get healthy. Look at our co-dependency.

What the alcoholic/addict/abuser does is up to them.

As you say, you being in her life didn't alter anything. We need to use our attention and energy on ourselves so we do not repeat the same patterns again.

Perhaps look on You Tube for some of the material to help you recover. Personally I found Lisa A Romano very helpful but there are loads.

Hawkeye13

It depends.

But you cannot control her addiction as you have already seen. . .

Some do start recovery when loved ones step away and quit rescuing them, but others keep going and get worse. Those that spiral lower often would still get worse even if family and friends try to support / manage them—then the “helpers” are also hurt by being to close and vulnerable to the addict and their irrational actions.

ToughChoices

Hi, SadPArtner.

I’ll share my personal experience, and you can see if it is helpful for your situation.

I came to SR more than 13 years ago (I was 25) when my ex-husband told me he had been secretly drinking for several years. I was shocked and terrified.

He defined himself as a binge/drinker and managed to function quite well in career and family life. For a bit. But alcoholism is progressive. Within 2 years he spiraled from a healthy, respectable guy with ambition, hope, and humor to a constantly drinking, chronically ill man with untreated depression, anger, and anxiety. He attempted treatment several times, but refused 12 step participation. He died due to alcoholism 6 years ago. He was 42.

It was excruciating to watch, even from a distance. Alanon and SR helped me understand that NOTHING I did made him drink or stay sober (and Lord knows I tried doing a lot!!!) His drinking was not because of me. It got worse over time, not because I saved him or left him or loved him or hated him. It got worse because he wasn’t able to stop drinking.

Alanon and SR taught me that I could only control my own actions. That was my responsibility. When I focused on that responsibility, I was successful. Years later when I got busy and stopped focusing on my personal mental health, I found myself adrift in an addiction of my own 🤦‍♀️. Goes to show me how much I have left to learn! I’m in recovery now, too.

Take care of yourself. Loving someone who hurts themself is scary, and it can damage those who care about them. Be vigilant about pursuing the life you want!

-TC

SadPArtner

Thanks a lot for your kind responses.

The decision is so difficult, that in some weird part of my head, I expect her to
A) get better ( my painful sacrifice would have a proposal an achievement... Let's say..)

Or B) get worse, so at least I was right having to kill all the really strong feelings I have to this woman, that I didn't felt with someone else in my -not so short - life ( I'm 47 yo)

It's horrible to expect that someone you love, gets worse, so you feel some kind of release of the unbearable doubt and pain you have to face when you leave your partner and you still love her A LOT...
; (

velma929

What in the world lead you to think she isn't a full-blown alcoholic?

Are the only 'real' addicts the ones sleeping on the streets and spending the day nursing a hangover until they start drinking again?

In my book, any person who can't stop drinking once she starts is an alcoholic. The person who can't live without alcohol is an alcoholic. Drinking is such an integral part of who she is that she equates quitting to changing the essence of who she is! She can't enjoy herself without alcohol.

They will suddenly REALIZE once you stop confronting them and stop trying to hold them accountable for the unnecessary misery they bring to the table.

Says who? Some people do, some don't.

There simply is no way to force somebody to change his/her lifestyle even if that person doesn't want to change. It's not possible. An overweight person can't be forced to eat less or exercise more. One can withhold bariatric surgery until she makes a good faith attempt to control eating, but one can't force it. A diabetic can't be forced to perform insulin injections. A person with mental health issues can't be forced to attend counseling or take medication. None of these things can be forced upon someone. No matter how much the patient's life may improve by doing them, it's still a matter of choice for the person with the issue.

And what you've observed is absolutely correct: caring for her and loving her didn't cure her addiction, either. She doesn't have a problem with her lifestyle. You do.

PeacefulWater12

Sad Partner, it might be that you are in a Trauma Bond with rather than in love with her.

Trauma Bonds are excruciating painful to get through, far more painful than a standard relationship break up. It is chemical withdrawal. Mine took about 8 months to completely clear.

It was physical and emotional pain. The physical pain was off the scale. I had truly never felt anything even close to how painful it was.

I don't know if you relate to this but if you do you could check out "trauma bonds" on You Tube.

firecricket

Sometimes I wonder if this is what I have with my husband....

PeacefulWater12

It is likely that most if not all of us who are with alkies/addicts/narcs have a Trauma Bond with them. The chemical addiction our bodies create from the huge highs and lows of life with them. The big releases of body chemicals.

We have to go cold turkey (No Contact) from them for it to break. It is obviously made harder if child access needs to be in the picture.

I personally am also an alcoholic as well as having been married to one. I got sober about 12 years ago, I tell you that withdrawals from alcohol was a fraction of how painful withdrawals from the Trauma Bond I had with my alcoholic husband was.

Breaking the Trauma Bond feels like you are going crazy, as well as the physical pain. It is also why a lot of us return to them or stay far longer than we should despite the unhappiness of being with a drinker, the Trauma Bond is just too painful to break.

SadPArtner

Both of this replies, simply nails it.

My physical pain is So REAL. I'm a tough guy, really athletic, full of energy and determination, and during the. last 5 or6 weeks I'm in bed all the time that I'm not at work.

"Her essence"
She reply to me that exact thing.
That I was confusing "loving someone" with "changing someone" and "taking her essence away"

This sentence was so brutal for me to receive...

I was with this woman3+ years, we had hundred of absolutely wonderful experiences...
I tough being in some new and wonderful beach in some city we are visiting, eating ice-cream with your loving partner, who compromísed with you, and your sons, while he gives you a little massage, would be more "the essence of your life" than having 6 f***ng beers with4 friends that never did anything positive in your life in decades.

Sadly enough, she decided she can leave without her man, our plans for the future, the emotional stability of her children, but she cannot live without her "6 hours silly fun" each Saturday in a stupid bunch of *the same bars/clubs* that we are exhausted to attend all this years with the same people, same music, same decoration, same everything...

Booze wins over love, over a future, joy, commitment, development, and personal growth...


And also "im boring" even if I bring different culture, live music, nature, sailing, sports, hiking, gardening, romanticism, travels, etc etc

And keep doing year after year this "6 hours drinking" is fun

PeacefulWater12

Focus on yourself and your healing.

Her words are just empty noise. Try not to fixate of them. Is rubbish.

Focus on YOURSELF and you getting well.

Yes, I was very fit and healthy, worked in the gym but it knocked me off my feet as well. You are in bed as much as you are because your body needs it. Your nervous system is exhausted, it needs to recover.

The physical pain really is off the scale painful. I did not know where to put myself to get relief as it hurt so much.

It does heal though if you look after yourself.

ToughChoices

Thanks, PeacefulWater! This rings quite true for me. Withdrawal from my physical drug of choice felt INCREDIBLY similar to the pain of my previous relationship’s drama (rushes of intense adrenaline and terrifying anxiety.) I was surprised by how familiar the physical sensations were!

Looking back, I was most certainly addicted to my ex. The highs and lows of that relationship mimic use/withdrawal from drugs and alcohol. I, personally, feel that for me, getting sober was less difficult than working through the trauma of my bond with my alcoholic ex. In my sobriety, the hardest work I have to do is look at WHY I chose to stay in a relationship that damaged me so much. What hole was I trying to fill?

When I got lazy, labeled someone else as “the problem”, and stopped tirelessly looking at my own personal inventory, I fell back into that hole. Yikes!

This is serious work, friends.

trailmix

hi Sadpartner, there are several things in your post that stand out to me as being very truthful and accurate, I'm just going to say it as I see it, please don't think I intend to be harsh (although it may sound that way)

This is true - there are 3 c's - You didn't Cause it, can't Control it and can't Cure it. The reason the 3 c's exist at all is because in the case of addiction - it is the truth. If you keep this in mind, it will help you.

This is true also.

Yes, very true as well.

No one can answer that. Many people will drink all their lives. Some will quit, some will fluctuate between quitting and drinking, depends on the individual. To get sober and in to recovery though, a person has to REALLY want it, not just think it's a good idea, not have someone else think it's a good idea. It's a tough road, especially if they have been drinking for some time.

Well what would be worse? She is already upset with you for trying to change her (which you are) and she way over drinks which upsets you greatly. How much are you willing to give up? How much sacrifice are you willing to make? You speak as though she and her alcoholism have power over your life, they don't really you know, she doesn't call the shots for you.

You are the one that needs to make the decision. You can't change her (and really, why would we want to change anyone? they are who they are and we need to respect that). So you need to change and accept her drinking with good grace, or leave. It's really up to you to make that decision for yourself, not for her to change to suit you.

That's the harsh bit, but as long as you let her decisions (which you obviously are not getting on board with) dictate how you will proceed, you will continue to get hurt.

SadPArtner

Thanks a lot for replying.
I'm here to learn more, even if it is harsh, cruel, sad, or whatever, so I am very grateful with all of you.

This thing about some kind of "2 people's dynamic," don't sounds quite logic for me at this point of understanding.

Her drinking affect way more things and people than just both of us. Or our dead relationship

Her health, her well-being, her children, her future, our future.

I don't think she have to change to suits me.
She should change to suit her own goals in life, such us grow her children that already lost the father, surround herself with people who make positive impact in her life, grow personally and professionally, maintain an image of an elegant, sophisticated person, that occupies a major part of her mind. 🤷‍♂️

To be talking nonsense each10 days in public attacks even those ( for me) superficial objectives in life

I think there's a lot of immaturity in living according to the instant gratification that drinking provides, despite the lack of long term more fulfilling goals in life.

By the way she said
Literally that she don't want to be like that.
She don't know how to look her son in the eye after some embarrassing incident,
She don't know why she can't stop once she begin to drink.

So it's no a simple fight between 2 persons.
​​​​​
Her own mouth claim the things I do in some "nirvana moments" here and there
I never changed my point of view in this subject.
She did. Many times.

And also I don't think every objective in life is respectable.

Let's say you collect child p*rn videos... That doesn't seems equally respectable to me than running a dog shelter, for example.
​​​
I use To think that love may be the more powerful force to evolve, to mature, to make hard but wonderful things, such as create a family, a home,
Or to make personal improvements, bcause you live with someone that will notice your flaws, and help you identify and/or fix them,

Two persons that love each other, have in their partner a mirror where each one can identify weakness or errors that will try to manage to become a better person. To grow together, to do us our grandparents did.

I'm I wrong if I keep thinking that way?

I was able to modify at least a little bit of my previous marriage's mistakes, cause I wanted to be and to do better with this woman. And think it was right to think and to behave that way.
I'm a better man now than10 years earlier.

I also witnessed the huge positive influence that the correct partner resulted in the life of some friends of mine in many areas of their personalities. For good.
I found that admirable in any possible way.
Not a sign of weakness or dependency..

Finally, I think love would knock your door may be2 or3 times in all your existence on earth.

So when you lost one of those very few possibilities for this silly drinking thing... You are losing something really valuable... Do you agree with this particular fact?

PeacefulWater12

Your post is about HER and her drinking!

Focus on yourself.

Perhaps tell us a bit about your background. Do you come from a family of alcoholics?

SadPArtner

No.
I don't have any previous experience with addictions

sage1969

This is why this situation with your partner is so difficult for you . . . with an alcoholic / addict, the "normal" dynamics of relationships don't apply.

The alcoholic / addict will protect their addiction. That will always be the number one priority. They will say and do whatever they need to still be able to drink / drug, whether or not it is true, whether or not it is logical, whether or not it is good for anyone else in their life.

So at this point, try to let go of making any sense out of what your qualifier says or does, or why they are doing it, or what you can do to help them. They have to address all that for themself.

The only thing you can do is focus on yourself.

trailmix

I totally understand what you are saying:

I don't disagree with you, but what I perhaps should have said is:

You are the one that needs to make the decision. You can't change her (and really, why would we want to change anyone? they are who they are and we need to respect that even if you don't like it).

So that's the difference. You don't agree with her lifestyle - but hey, how many would? Who thinks it's a good idea to be addicted to a drug and so involved with it that important parts of your life (friends, family, partners, children) end up in second, third or fifth place in your focus? Not many people would think that's A-OK.

But those are her choices, you aren't going to change her (you've tried, how's that working?) she drank before she met you, while you were in a relationship and she will continue.

It's difficult to wrap your head around someone choosing alcohol as the first priority, but it happens every day in millions of cases. That's what addiction is like. People leave their wives, husbands, babies, friends and other family to continue drinking.

Addicts first priority is the drug of choice - never doubt that. You would come a second or third, maybe fourth (alcohol, job, children then maybe you).

So is it "self solving" yes, but not perhaps in the way you understood it. The thing is, what they are saying is leave them be and it will resolve itself the way THEY choose to resolve it (even if that means continuing to drink).

SadPArtner

Thanks for your support.
Today May be the saddest day in all this process so far.

There's no solution.
There's no logic
There's no hope
There's no compensation
There's no justice

Just sadness, dispair, and the feeling that you gave all of your heart, and received nothing.

I changed completely my life to this dream.
Let my own house, give those children a place in my heart, build a home...

All for nothing ; (

Can't get that feeling out of my head.

Did everything, with no outcome

Also having to read her last messages where she is also sad and broken bc I don't accept her and support her, and catch her when she falls.

How many times will she gonna fall??
​​​​​
What if I need to feel supported by for example being her priority as she was mine?

😭

It's been a Really bad day.
Thanks for reading me and replying me

Hen1

Just want to say I understand how you feel and the pain. Take care of yourself.