thequest

What ever you do make sure it's clean and permanent.

Setting aside the legal stuff for a while if you buy his share for example set clear cut deadlines for him to get his stuff and move out. I would not let him stay unless he's a paying tenant. Even then that's not a clean break.

I've seen property disputes divorce and estate battles and it must be clean, no half measures. Run everything by a lawyer. You can nickel and dime him on a negotiation to get your fair share or take the first reasonable offer and leave. Some alcoholics who sometimes have narcissistic behavior might actually have an issue with a quick sale because narcissists hate to be alone. He might try to entice you with counter seemingly great offers just to keep you there and himself as a tenant. Think out and go over all scenarios including negotiation ploys. He's already changed his story if not plans. The situation will have to change for him to change and you to feel free. Time will not cure all.

Good Luck

trailmix

I'm sorry Amaranth, I was hoping that might all go better. It will be better once you have a lawyer in place and can go no contact with the soon to be exH.

The tactic is very low, he obviously is lacking in the integrity department. As for the kids, well, they are being manipulated and it's working.

I would get them together and let them know where you stand. I am always perplexed by people who like to take a big stand at your expense.

I would explain that the house is yours and you require the money to live on and get a place to live. Alternately, if they would like to keep the house you would require payments of X amount of dollars from them each month for your living expenses.

Some people do not understand that there is an equal and opposite reaction. He loves us and wants us to have the house! He will be sad!

Oops Mom will be struggling to make ends meet. Do they realize that third part? If not, lay it on the line. Unless they want to come to the party with their wallets, what are the other options. I'd actually ask them that, they need to THINK about what they are demanding.

Again, I'm sorry you are having to go through all this, things will get better.

FeelingGreat

I'm shocked your children would say that to you even if they are immature by definition.

Don't apologise for anything you have to do to secure yours and their financial future. Ask them if they intend to look after you now seeing they are the ones with the assets. Maybe a short lesson on the financial realities of life is in order.

Your AH has no right to tell them they own the house, as they will find out when assets are divided.

I notice you have a strong wish to keep things civil with your AH - probably keeping it business like will be the best thing to aim for. I know from experience that when assets are divided civility often goes out the window, but can certainly return once things are settled.

Amaranth

I have given up on all hope of having a reasonable and rational communication with my soon to be ex husband. I should be assigned a lawyer through legal aid any day now and I wanted to talk about that with him. If we can agree on how to split the assets, he can use my lawyer and it won't cost either of us anything. It could be quick and painless.

But my husband keeps avoiding meeting up. We had an appointment for Monday afternoon. He messaged at 2pm to say he had had a drink and so couldn't meet me. I texted back, phone me when you're sober and make another date. He said thanks for being so understanding, I don't want to upset you.
So I think this is the line that broke the camel's back. Read my threads to see how much he has upset me over the last.......years.

Of course he didn't phone....

I have come to the conclusion that there is no point flogging a dead horse. He is not unhappy, as he makes out to me. He is in alcohol heaven with his new girlfriend, he has nothing to gain by talking about splitting assets. I am no longer interested in cushioning the blow for him. I have decided I will not contact him and I will wait for the lawyer and let them deal with it. He can pay for his own lawyer.

I also wanted to talk about the kids......

My kids have been particularly unpleasant to me this week. They are planning to have a "year off". One is already having a year off, the other finishes school soon. They told me that I was obliged to pay for them until they are 18. They are constantly asking me for money and are just sitting around smoking weed.

I told them not to come back to my house until they learn how to treat me with respect and give me a bit of willing help around the house. They are telling me I am acting like a victim and that my illness is over and I should get back to work. Well that's not what the doctors say. I am still signed off work and getting sick pay and cannot use my abdominals till I get an internal exam which is happening soon and to be honest I will be so happy if I am told I can start living like a normal person again. I do want to get back to work but I also know how stupid it would be to start running around farming before the doctor says so. I don't want to be permanently damaged or get a hernia.

So I can't believe I have manged to stand up for myself against my kids. I have been feeling so guilty about leaving home and for everything that has happened in my family. When I decided to leave I felt like I could no longer allow myself to be treated that way in front of my kids. What example was I setting of how a man should treat a woman and what a woman should accept? But seems I was too late and they are taking advantage of me now too.

Really deep down I feel like we have such a loving bond - they are really good kids - but I have to make a stand and if it means I don't see them for a while then so be it. If they want to act like idiots doing nothing but smoking weed then they can. But I won't pay for it and they won't do it under my roof.

I hope they don't come back tomorrow.....I am having a party for my friend's birthday. It was supposed to be at the beach but since it is going to rain all weekend I offered her the lovely big attic space with fantastic terrace that my kids have here in my house. I pay the rent. I can use it how I like.

SparkleKitty

Well done, Amaranth. A person can get used to standing up for herself!

SmallButMighty

Good for you Amaranth... on all fronts. Keep making the next right choice FOR YOU. Your STBXH and young adult children can figure out their own lives..or not. You can't figure out their "stuff" for any of them... but you sure as heck can keep setting boundaries that protects you from their poor choices. Looks like you are doing a good job of that! Yay!

I went through some trying times with my kids as well. Never easy on a mama's heart. Still a little wobbly with my 20yr old son... but that's fine, he is grown, he lives his life over there, I live my life over here and we love each other from a distance for now. It's OK.

It's nice to hear the strength and resolve in your post

trailmix

Yes, well done Amaranth for keeping your boundaries. I mean that, it's not always easy to protect yourself, but you are.

I think sometimes young adults (and I use the word adults loosely lol) can get this idea, from being part of a tight family unit, that they are somehow entitled to - whatever, part of the "family" money or assets. I've seen it before.

This will pass, or if it doesn't it will soon become clear that the world doesn't work that way.

To top that off, it sounds like your kids are probably vocalizing some of what your stbxh is quacking about, this strikes me as something that came from someone else:

I really think it was nice of you to try to make this as low-cost and amicable as possible, you tried. That's not working so you have gone to plan B and that's a solid move imo. We can try but if the other party won't act, you can only carry on.

It's got to be unsettling for you in many ways I'm sure. Stick to your guns, you are doing so well. I hope you are feeling 100 percent soon as well.

Amaranth

I just want to share that I am feeling great this morning!!! I tend to post when I am desperate and in the depths of grief. I had a fantastic weekend with a lovely party in my house and dancing till 4am!!

I went to bed last night feeling pretty sad that I haven't heard from my kids since I told them not to come here until they could be respectful. That was about 5 days ago. One of my boys came round early this morning looking for a school book. He was lovely, didn't freak out that his room has been hijacked (it's all lovely and cleaned up but all the furniture has been moved)

He gave me a hug, told me he loves me and says he'll come for lunch today. Maybe putting down boundaries is working? Maybe my kids will respect me for it in the end? I certainly respect myself more.

So I want to share a good day. For anyone who is struggling with grief, the good days do come. The bad days come back again but sure as the sea has high tides and low tides, the good days eventually follow.

hopeful4

My child is 19. She recently told me that the best thing I have ever done for her is support her emotionally and set clear cut boundaries. It was an epiphany moment. She may fight those boundaries when I bring them up, but in the long run, it pays off.

Well done friend!

Amaranth

I'm feeling desperate today. My boundaries seem to have worked with one of my boys. He seems to be on track for studying something next year, most likely a practical training course. He is being very sweet and loving.

The other is a different story. I talked to his dad on the phone to ask for some help in getting him to sign onto the list for training courses next year. Dad said he would talk to him but I go no feedback and as the deadline was yesterday I got a bit frustrated. I passed the bar where my husband and his girlfriend are most of the time. It was Thursday lunchtime and I thought, what the heck, how drunk can they be at this time of day? So I went in to talk to my husband.

Well the scene was quite shocking. They were totally plastered, had been up all night. It is a very toxic relationship they have. They are unpleasant to each other. My husband really seemed to want to spend time with me. He kept telling her to go away. I tried to talk about the kids but realised pretty quickly it's absolutely pointless. My husband went through a whole spectrum of emotions. Crying, shouting, I love you, I hate you, if you try and sell the house I'll burn it down. YOU ABANDONED ME!! He told me he's in loads of debt, he's in trouble, he hates his girlfriend, he's in a dark place. He's got no work. He'll probably end up in prison.

I phoned his best friend this morning. We haven't spoken for about a year. I just wanted to try and work out what's real and what's not. His best friend told me he lost patience with him about 3 weeks ago. Fed up of him not turning up for work. He can't do any more for him.

So it seems that my husband's rock bottom has to be pretty close. He doesn't seem to know what day it is and he has no one left in his life to support him. Other than the toxic girlfriend.

Part of me feels like he's teetering on the edge of disaster and I just want to push him over.

I don't really know what the point of this post is. I know there's nothing I can do. I know I am as powerless over my husband as he is over alcohol. I want to protect my children. I want to get them out of the situation they are in. But they are old enough that I can't force them to do anything. They are almost adults.

I feel like I am bracing myself for the worst - my husband's death or prison. But I felt like this in August and he just managed to continue on his bender.

I'm still going ahead with the divorce though I hate to think what the additional pressure will do to him. I can't go back on that now, I know I have to do it.

It's so horrible to watch this circus. I keep telling my husband I love him, I will always love him and nothing he says or does will change that. But I will never be with him because of the addictions.

FallenAngelina

Rock bottom is rather a false premise in recovery parlance because things can always get worse and they can always linger on, as you have experienced. Looking from the outside, we imagine that things are approaching their worst, but in truth nobody but the alcoholic himself can say what the worst is. Rock bottom is not "the worst," it is simply a day on which an alcoholic decides that he wants to take action to change - and then it's one day at a time from then on out. Rock bottom can hit many times (AKA relapse,) it can come after one scare like a DUI, it can come after the loss of all loved ones or it can never come. Rock bottom is simply and only the day on which an alcoholic decides to do a few things differently - and then do them again the next day and the next day and the next.

It's important for us to know that there is no Rock Bottom to hope for. An alcoholic can change early on in his drinking career with little drama, he can change and have infinite war stories to share in AA or he can never change. Recovery is always the choice of the alcoholic, no matter how benign or horrendous things appear to onlookers.

trailmix

Yes, I agree, rock bottom is non-existent.

That whole scene in the bar is rather traumatic so I completely get why you are having all these emotions crop up.

Talking to someone drunk is like talking to yourself, except at least if you talk to yourself you make sense.

He may have just been really plastered Thursday and emotional. For someone who has no work and no money it seems he managed to buy himself a few drinks (or she bought them for him). Does she work? She can perhaps keep the beer ship afloat for a while.

I wouldn't worry about him, he is doing what he wants when he wants and with whom he wants without worry about anyone else. What I'm saying really is you are wasting your time worrying about his situation and your divorce. I believe alcoholism is a mental illness, so it's not that I don't have compassion but you can't help him, he needs professional help. Besides, he didn't ask for anyone's help really? He's not seeking treatment, he is not trying to find a solution, he's drinking in the bar.

It's one thing to have concern for your fellow human being, I totally get that, it's another to consider throwing yourself under the bus for said person.

They will tap you out. Emotionally (which you have experienced) and financially, if you let them.

Is your farm paid for? If so has he been paying you rent while living there since you left? If not paid for is he paying the bulk of the mortgage?

Amaranth

Thank you for the new perspective. I realise I have been hanging on for rock bottom so that this nightmare will end. It never actually occurred to me that it is not inevitable. I guess now I'll have to work on accepting that it might never happen. And accept that this situation could go on and on.

She is paying the bar bills. She inherited money. I don't know how much but enough to buy a house and cars since she arrived here nearly a year ago. He is doing some work and some other (illegal) stuff for money.

The house and the farm are all paid for. There's no mortgage. No he hasn't paid me a penny. He just complains how unfair it is he has to pay for all the food for the kids.....except when they're with me I feed them..... this doesn't seem to have occurred to him.

I know I have to stop worrying about him. I know he makes his choices and he is doing exactly what he wants to do.

It's just so sad to see a glimpse of him behind the drunk. If only he could get out but at the moment he can't. I have to accept that.

I worry so much about the kids and what they are being exposed to. But they also make their choices and chose to stay with him a lot of the time. It is their home. They have never lived anywhere else. Although I'm not sure how much he is actually there. A lot of the time it is a teenage hangout with no boundaries.

Amaranth

"there is no Rock Bottom to hope for"

this totally sums up the insanity of alcoholism for me.

Imagine actually hoping that someone hits rock bottom. And hoping for it because I love them.

I love him so I wish he would hit rock bottom!! I am as crazy as he is.

trailmix

Selling that farm and having the children move is probably the very best thing for them.

You aren't crazy, but you have been living with this dysfunction so long that some things become "normal".

Two items I wrote about in the Quackers thread about my Aunts, to us that was normal, not that those crazy things happened often, but nobody batted an eyelid when my uncle wasn't really dead. My Aunt never even kind of mentioned it again the next day.

In fact we found it funny.

I still do.

Amaranth

So here I am again. I'm feeling terribly horribly guilty for what I am about to do. I have been working for months to get the paperwork together to start the divorce. I have a lawyer. I have had the property valued. The replacement marriage certificate is in the post. My husband never managed to find the original even though I told him exactly where it was in the house. I just need to get that translated and I'm ready to go to the lawyer and get things started. It's a matter of weeks now.

BUT Nearly a month ago my husbands girlfriend took her own life. He is pretty traumatized. He was treated as a murder suspect initially (but only for 2 hours) He appears to be drinking his way through it. I have just been away to my family with one kid, the other is away with a friend.

I have talked it all through with my family and the only sane thing for me to do now is to carry on with the plan to get divorced. I know this to be true.

But I feel so bad about putting my husband through this now after what he has just been through.

I also know that he could have divorced me before he got involved with someone else. I also know that he wasn't there for me when I was in a really bad way. He was in the bar with her.

I also know that I need to get my life back on track. I need to get myself out of this situation that seems to go on and on and get more and more bizarre.

I don't want to see or speak to my husband at the moment. In fact I don't really want to see or speak to anyone. I just want to get on and get it over with. Although I'm sure it won't be that simple. It will probably take years.

I know his life choices have caused not only himself a lot of pain but also our kids and me. I just feel so bad about putting him through a divorce now when he is in such a mess.

I'm not backing out, I'm going through with it even though I know I will be perceived as very cold hearted by my kids and the people of our small town. I'm not scared of being judged by others but I think I am judging myself.

Thanks for reading

hopeful4

Oh friend, I am sorry you are hurting. He knows about the divorce, correct?

Yes, it's a terrible situation. However in life, we will always be faced with death, seasonal changes, losses, all sorts of things that we have to cope our way through. You cannot choose how the addict in your life processes and handles that.

You are doing the right thing. Keep that focus on you and your children. Anyone who judges is not worth being in your life, trust me on that.

Sending you big hugs!!!

Hawkeye13

He had a girlfriend while still being married to you--and you taking care of his kids.

You might be surprised about how people in a small town might rally around you.

I'm sorry for your pain. Please don't feel guilty--he should have gotten divorced before getting involved with another person.

Amaranth

He was taking care of the kids, or barely, they kind of take care of themselves. I was in hospital and ill for 8 months. It's a train wreck.

SparkleKitty

Amaranth, I get where you're coming from but I hope you can let it go.

He is where he is because of his own choices. Doing this now or three months or six months from now--it's not going to make any difference. He will likely deal with it by drinking any way you go. Pull the bandaid off.

You have to take care of yourself. You just have to.