In the fog again
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Originally Posted by FireSprite 
No marriage? Joint assets? Kids in common?
No way you need to subject herself to this Surf - why base an entire relationship on potential instead of reality?
If this is the best it ever gets, is it enough? This stuff sucks, I'm sorry.
No way you need to subject herself to this Surf - why base an entire relationship on potential instead of reality?
If this is the best it ever gets, is it enough? This stuff sucks, I'm sorry.
Originally Posted by hopeful4
Surf...once it clicks in your head, it clicks. The thing is, you would never be happy with him again b/c you won't accept that treatment. Once it clicks, you cannot move backwards, only forwards. One step at a time friend.
Originally Posted by trailmix
You are strong and you will be fine, I really believe that Surfbee. Good for you for taking care of yourself. I know that is said a lot in this forum but honestly, it's an amazing thing to do, truly.
I think this last interaction with him was a good example of how he operates. He disappears for days then comes back without an apology but a complaint about a TV show you chose? Really? That is his excuse in his mind and addict thinking. He is far away from any kind of recovery at this point. His focus is alcohol, it is his first focus and everything else is secondary.
I understand the fear, that's very normal, of course, it was a big decision and one you have pondered for weeks/months, trust yourself.
I think this last interaction with him was a good example of how he operates. He disappears for days then comes back without an apology but a complaint about a TV show you chose? Really? That is his excuse in his mind and addict thinking. He is far away from any kind of recovery at this point. His focus is alcohol, it is his first focus and everything else is secondary.
I understand the fear, that's very normal, of course, it was a big decision and one you have pondered for weeks/months, trust yourself.
but I like to hear you say that i'm strong and will be fine... thank you... I hope so...I think he was looking to fight - maybe not consciously - but that self sabotaging part of his brain wanted to just escape.... get away from the responsibility of facing himself... he said that to me before when we got back together... he said he realised that running away from me was him running away from himself... ! And there he goes and does it again!
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Originally Posted by trailmix
Please don't forget HALT - Hunger, Anger, Loneliness, and Tiredness. These are all things that can potentially trip you up. You really do need to be very conscious of looking out for yourself right now and I hope you will be because you deserve it!
I know eating when you have no appetite is really hard but now is the time to eat whatever you can tempt yourself with, whether that is a milkshake, a smoothie a pizza or chips. Not eating is guaranteed to send your mood spiralling and I would hate to see that for you.
I'm glad to hear you went to your class. You do a lot of interesting things!
I know eating when you have no appetite is really hard but now is the time to eat whatever you can tempt yourself with, whether that is a milkshake, a smoothie a pizza or chips. Not eating is guaranteed to send your mood spiralling and I would hate to see that for you.
I'm glad to hear you went to your class. You do a lot of interesting things!
And I'll try to make sure i'm around people, nice people, as and when I can.
Everything just feels like a dread - like my flame inside is out... this too shall pass...
So grateful for everyone here x
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Surfbee…...make a list of what you want/need in a relationship......what it would take for you to thrive...not just exist...in a relationship.
You are going to go through a grieving process....for the loss of what you wanted the relationship to be...but wasn't.
I call it the short term pain for the long-term gain......
You are going to go through a grieving process....for the loss of what you wanted the relationship to be...but wasn't.
I call it the short term pain for the long-term gain......
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Surfbee…...make a list of what you want/need in a relationship......what it would take for you to thrive...not just exist...in a relationship.
You are going to go through a grieving process....for the loss of what you wanted the relationship to be...but wasn't.
I call it the short term pain for the long-term gain......
You are going to go through a grieving process....for the loss of what you wanted the relationship to be...but wasn't.
I call it the short term pain for the long-term gain......
Sleep on an empowering concept...
And roll on the grief process! I'm ready for it! Scared but ready.
x
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
thank you...this disdain, distance... no response... is so cruel... how could someone do that to someone they love?? I don't understand!
- Person happily drinking (probably too much) and going along in their life. Why are they drinking too much? Lots of causes. Poor parenting (feeling rejected, unloved, ignored, abused), sexual abuse, shyness/introversion, learning disabilities - so many possibilities (maybe they just like the taste and the high).
Bottom line, they are covering feelings. Many start to drink early on and never learn any coping skills for negative emotions. That's not necessary at this point, they can just drink.
At some point a switch is made in the brain. In order for an alcoholic to feel "normal" they must drink.
Therefore for regular folks, things that the brain normally does will not function that way in an alcoholic. Their brain wants that alcohol to perform those functions, they are addicted and reliant.
That's why people say, it's not you, because not only is their brain working very differently, it affects so much more.
So he may well care but you will always be secondary to alcohol and in a case where the partner does not want the other person to drink, you become the enemy.
That's why people say, if you want to stay with an alcoholic you pretty much have to accept they are going to drink. You don't have to like it, but you should accept it (unless you want to be the enemy of course).
I don't know if this is helpful but just perhaps food for thought.
Based on all you have said, it's not that he doesn't care, but he is an alcoholic. He is unwilling to leave the alcohol behind.
As you mentioned, you might even be willing to return to the relationship and of course, that is up to you. If you do decide to do that just remember the above. Alcohol first. Otherwise you will be right back here (emotionally) in a few weeks or less.
And yes, I truly do believe you are strong enough to overcome this relationship and I also know it probably doesn't feel like it right now.
I'm glad you are making that list Dandylion suggested, that is a great and empowering idea.
Hang in there!
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Originally Posted by trailmix
I do. Alcoholism. The brain wants alcohol. You are standing in the way of the alcohol. It truly is that simple.
For me it's running from emotions, inability to process the "hard stuff" & an emotional immaturity that doesn't allow them to see that they are standing in their own way.
That's why taking away the drug of choice is just step 1 for every path - it doesn't suddenly give you the tools you need to stop numbing & processing emotions in a healthy way.
He couldn't express himself, so like a toddler he melted down, grabbed all his toys & left the sandbox. What is he doing to build the skills/tools needed to bridge this gap? That's the question I'd be focusing on - that's where his potential to change exists. (not that you should base your choices on him either way)
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Originally Posted by FireSprite
Yes but I also see this in people with all kinds of other qualifying dysfunction that are not addicts.
For me it's running from emotions, inability to process the "hard stuff" & an emotional immaturity that doesn't allow them to see that they are standing in their own way.
That's why taking away the drug of choice is just step 1 for every path - it doesn't suddenly give you the tools you need to stop numbing & processing emotions in a healthy way.
He couldn't express himself, so like a toddler he melted down, grabbed all his toys & left the sandbox. What is he doing to build the skills/tools needed to bridge this gap? That's the question I'd be focusing on - that's where his potential to change exists. (not that you should base your choices on him either way)
For me it's running from emotions, inability to process the "hard stuff" & an emotional immaturity that doesn't allow them to see that they are standing in their own way.
That's why taking away the drug of choice is just step 1 for every path - it doesn't suddenly give you the tools you need to stop numbing & processing emotions in a healthy way.
He couldn't express himself, so like a toddler he melted down, grabbed all his toys & left the sandbox. What is he doing to build the skills/tools needed to bridge this gap? That's the question I'd be focusing on - that's where his potential to change exists. (not that you should base your choices on him either way)
I didn't go in to that in my novelette above but I'm glad you clarified this.
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Thank you both Trailmix and FiresSprite! x
This was his response to me last night:
What to say Surfbee.
Yes I read your email this morning. And I was thinking on some sort of measured nice response, but then you send this. This is exactly the issue with you, this is the very thing I was complaining on. You turning up on Friday night because you didn't get the response you wanted, when you wanted it. What a turn around. Your first message to this follow up one.
I was working and wasn't able to devote the time to reply appropriately. But your follw up email helped me find clarity in response to what was written. In fact it proved what I was saying last night, tjat you talk a good game, but your actions are just as rash and explosive as always
He's very good at putting me down! Thoughts on how to respond to this? My friend and my mum think that silence is the best response. x
This was his response to me last night:
What to say Surfbee.
Yes I read your email this morning. And I was thinking on some sort of measured nice response, but then you send this. This is exactly the issue with you, this is the very thing I was complaining on. You turning up on Friday night because you didn't get the response you wanted, when you wanted it. What a turn around. Your first message to this follow up one.
I was working and wasn't able to devote the time to reply appropriately. But your follw up email helped me find clarity in response to what was written. In fact it proved what I was saying last night, tjat you talk a good game, but your actions are just as rash and explosive as always
He's very good at putting me down! Thoughts on how to respond to this? My friend and my mum think that silence is the best response. x
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Originally Posted by dandylion
Surfbee…...My first thought is that this is a lot of "Quacking"...…
My impression is that you left the relationship because of the big picture...not one event...and I right....?
My impression is that you left the relationship because of the big picture...not one event...and I right....?
thanks for that.I didn't know what the term "quacking" meant until this week hehe
Well...I left the relationship because of what this one event reminded me of - old patterns..... and although I accepted his problem and wanted to be with him as he attempts to recover....I can't accept how he punishes me with silence and belittling every time he feels triggered.... and then doesn't apologise......which makes me feel guilty....and I end up finding something to apologise for.... which I think makes him disrespect me because one minute I'm saying "hang on, this is not fair", then the next I'm apologising saying "I'll get better at x, y and z" ... it is very draining..........and of course my self-confidence gets knocked every time I try to fix "the problem." Yesterday something clicked.... I had enough.... Never said "Goodbye" to him before....of course there is the part in me that wants him to step up.......
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
and of course my self-confidence gets knocked every time I try to fix "the problem." Yesterday something clicked.... I had enough.... Never said "Goodbye" to him before....of course there is the part in me that wants him to step up.......
His response to your email is classic. The blame, the complete disregard for your feelings, the complete disregard that he played any part in this. The total quackery as dandylion mentioned.
This is guy is a jerk.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
He is so far from stepping up it's just impossible. There is zero possibility you can "fix" this relationship as it is.
His response to your email is classic. The blame, the complete disregard for your feelings, the complete disregard that he played any part in this. The total quackery as dandylion mentioned.
This is guy is a jerk.
His response to your email is classic. The blame, the complete disregard for your feelings, the complete disregard that he played any part in this. The total quackery as dandylion mentioned.
This is guy is a jerk.
x
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I feel like I was a bit harsh there and I'm sorry if that hurt your feelings Surfbee. His response was so one-sided it rather made me angry.
That said, he really is far far away from any recovery, that is the truth. He may be able to quit drinking but there seem to be many underlying issues there. The fact that he lays the blame on you is really not good.
Imagine if every time you had conflict with someone you decided it was their fault. How easy is that? Now, if the other people can conform to that as well - that's big time icing on the cake.
A cake-walk if you will!
You didn't cause it, control it, can't cure it.
That said, he really is far far away from any recovery, that is the truth. He may be able to quit drinking but there seem to be many underlying issues there. The fact that he lays the blame on you is really not good.
Imagine if every time you had conflict with someone you decided it was their fault. How easy is that? Now, if the other people can conform to that as well - that's big time icing on the cake.
A cake-walk if you will!
You didn't cause it, control it, can't cure it.
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Never said "Goodbye" to him before....of course there is the part in me that wants him to step up.......
perhaps we need a refresher on what GOODBYE means?
he is right, you did send two completely different messages yesterday. so now is your time to decide what your message IS.
if you are done, be done. stop texting, calling, emailing. stop any contact. worry less about what his motives are, how much of a jerk he is, all of that, and just move you and your life forward.
you are caught in the dance of Come Here, Go Away. Now you see me, now you don't. it is a dance between you both, not any one side. it's time to get off the dance floor.
perhaps we need a refresher on what GOODBYE means?
he is right, you did send two completely different messages yesterday. so now is your time to decide what your message IS.
if you are done, be done. stop texting, calling, emailing. stop any contact. worry less about what his motives are, how much of a jerk he is, all of that, and just move you and your life forward.
you are caught in the dance of Come Here, Go Away. Now you see me, now you don't. it is a dance between you both, not any one side. it's time to get off the dance floor.
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Hi Surfbee;
I think based on what he has been saying, he really is not in a place to have a constructive, meaningful relationship at this time.
I agree with Mum--go silent and block his number.
There is nothing to be gained from further engagement.
He isn't willing to own any part of his behavior, and really, from my view
it is unacceptable treatment of you and your feelings.
I'm so sorry you are hurting, but I think continuing in the relationship would bring lots more pain for a lot longer time than if you let go now.
I think based on what he has been saying, he really is not in a place to have a constructive, meaningful relationship at this time.
I agree with Mum--go silent and block his number.
There is nothing to be gained from further engagement.
He isn't willing to own any part of his behavior, and really, from my view
it is unacceptable treatment of you and your feelings.
I'm so sorry you are hurting, but I think continuing in the relationship would bring lots more pain for a lot longer time than if you let go now.
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
Thank you both Trailmix and FiresSprite! x
This was his response to me last night:
What to say Surfbee.
Yes I read your email this morning. And I was thinking on some sort of measured nice response, but then you send this. This is exactly the issue with you, this is the very thing I was complaining on. You turning up on Friday night because you didn't get the response you wanted, when you wanted it. What a turn around. Your first message to this follow up one.
I was working and wasn't able to devote the time to reply appropriately. But your follw up email helped me find clarity in response to what was written. In fact it proved what I was saying last night, tjat you talk a good game, but your actions are just as rash and explosive as always
He's very good at putting me down! Thoughts on how to respond to this? My friend and my mum think that silence is the best response. x
This was his response to me last night:
What to say Surfbee.
Yes I read your email this morning. And I was thinking on some sort of measured nice response, but then you send this. This is exactly the issue with you, this is the very thing I was complaining on. You turning up on Friday night because you didn't get the response you wanted, when you wanted it. What a turn around. Your first message to this follow up one.
I was working and wasn't able to devote the time to reply appropriately. But your follw up email helped me find clarity in response to what was written. In fact it proved what I was saying last night, tjat you talk a good game, but your actions are just as rash and explosive as always
He's very good at putting me down! Thoughts on how to respond to this? My friend and my mum think that silence is the best response. x
He is very, very far from recognizing that he has a problem. He is accepting no responsibility for his childish and completely unacceptable behavior. He's likely drinking again, but even if he's not, this is just ridiculous. Everything is an excuse.
"You turning up on Friday night because you didn't get the response you wanted, when you wanted it." This is something my ex said to me almost verbatim. And it's extremely manipulative.
What it comes down to is that he wants to be able to do what he wants, when he wants, with no thought of you at all. And then he wants you to be there for him when he needs you. And if you're not willing to play by those rules, well then, you can just F off.
You probably feel like you were being used. Like you were just a babysitter, a counselor, a cheerleader, a mother, but never a partner.
It's so shi**y. I'm sorry you are going through this. I agree with your mom and friends; don't respond. You don't need to hear any more of this bull****.
--Liz
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You're a harsh lot! But I value what you're saying to me......there is kindness in your intentions...x
The truth is that there is no kindness coming from him ...
Just sober (as far as I'm aware since I haven't seen him all week) ..he's doing weekly therapy ( 8 week service provided by NHS ) and recently made her aware of his drinking problem, but said he mostly chats about the situation with his kids.
He listens to books, goes to gym, runs to and from work, and is setting goals to run more marathons... this is his way to recovery...
The truth is that there is no kindness coming from him ...
Originally Posted by FireSprite
Surf - is he "just sober" or actually Working A Program of Recovery?
He listens to books, goes to gym, runs to and from work, and is setting goals to run more marathons... this is his way to recovery...
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
He listens to books, goes to gym, runs to and from work, and is setting goals to run more marathons... this is his way to recovery...
It's a truly wonderful thing to have compassion for someone else. In this case though it is being used against you. Relationships with extra challenges, like addiction, are tough, as you well know. That's one thing, when it is abusive, that's another and that is what this is and that's where this reaction is coming from (I think).
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