In the fog again
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Yes, I realise this....and really do appreciate everything that's been said...i've been reading the stickies on "abuse" ......
Originally Posted by trailmix 
I think the truth that is coming out here is related to that email he sent and the fact that you have mentioned how you blame yourself.
It's a truly wonderful thing to have compassion for someone else. In this case though it is being used against you. Relationships with extra challenges, like addiction, are tough, as you well know. That's one thing, when it is abusive, that's another and that is what this is and that's where this reaction is coming from (I think).
It's a truly wonderful thing to have compassion for someone else. In this case though it is being used against you. Relationships with extra challenges, like addiction, are tough, as you well know. That's one thing, when it is abusive, that's another and that is what this is and that's where this reaction is coming from (I think).
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He's very good at putting me down! Thoughts on how to respond to this?
He listens to books, goes to gym, runs to and from work, and is setting goals to run more marathons... this is his way to recovery...
What reward do you get for yourself by continuing to participate in this ill-fated relationship? What need inside of you is it filing?
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I've remained silent. I'd rather go on alone than participate in the dysfunction as you said Atalose. I'm the one who usually tries to fix and heal everything ... But I realise I've done enough. Done too much, and probsbly even enabled the dysfunction.
He liked a post I shared yesterday regarding a big work event I did. I think that's his way of a peace offering...and prob expects me to now soften and go see him....But if there is to be any hope going forward with him, he needs to learn he can't treat me like **** anymore...the effort needs to come from him...but most likely there will be no effort...
I'm hurting but trying my best to honour my needs from now on.
He liked a post I shared yesterday regarding a big work event I did. I think that's his way of a peace offering...and prob expects me to now soften and go see him....But if there is to be any hope going forward with him, he needs to learn he can't treat me like **** anymore...the effort needs to come from him...but most likely there will be no effort...
I'm hurting but trying my best to honour my needs from now on.
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Surfbee…...yes, there is pain in ending any relationship that one has invested a part of themselves into. I have been there....and was a hot mess.
This is the short-term pain---for the long-term gain.
I think that so many people stay in bad and damaging relationships simply because they are too afraid of the short-term pain.....thereby, by default, choosing to live in long-term pain, that just gets worse....
This is the short-term pain---for the long-term gain.
I think that so many people stay in bad and damaging relationships simply because they are too afraid of the short-term pain.....thereby, by default, choosing to live in long-term pain, that just gets worse....
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You're probably right, that "like" on fb is a peace offering.
He goes off on a tangent and then tries to work his way back in to your life.
The key thing I think, from what you have said is that each and every time he reverts back to unacceptable behaviour toward you after an incredibly brief "honeymoon" period.
This push-pull rut you are in is really bad. I've known someone in this type of situation and it's very destructive. It's really important, I think that you either decide to be in or out.
If you are in, be all the way in. No dithering. Not saying it's bad to pull away when things are heated or anything like that but deciding to give it a try and then pulling way back and him drawing you back in is just as bad if not worse than going all in.
There are no clear cut boundaries here right now, one day you two are together, then there is a break for a week, then you are back together. It either is something where you are all in and going to work through it or it isn't.
In the meantime, distancing for periods just allows for everyone to cool off and forget all the transgressions. Then you are thrown back in to it. This is more like a repetitive boxing match than a relationship right now.
He goes off on a tangent and then tries to work his way back in to your life.
The key thing I think, from what you have said is that each and every time he reverts back to unacceptable behaviour toward you after an incredibly brief "honeymoon" period.
This push-pull rut you are in is really bad. I've known someone in this type of situation and it's very destructive. It's really important, I think that you either decide to be in or out.
If you are in, be all the way in. No dithering. Not saying it's bad to pull away when things are heated or anything like that but deciding to give it a try and then pulling way back and him drawing you back in is just as bad if not worse than going all in.
There are no clear cut boundaries here right now, one day you two are together, then there is a break for a week, then you are back together. It either is something where you are all in and going to work through it or it isn't.
In the meantime, distancing for periods just allows for everyone to cool off and forget all the transgressions. Then you are thrown back in to it. This is more like a repetitive boxing match than a relationship right now.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
You're probably right, that "like" on fb is a peace offering.
He goes off on a tangent and then tries to work his way back in to your life.
The key thing I think, from what you have said is that each and every time he reverts back to unacceptable behaviour toward you after an incredibly brief "honeymoon" period.
This push-pull rut you are in is really bad. I've known someone in this type of situation and it's very destructive. It's really important, I think that you either decide to be in or out.
If you are in, be all the way in. No dithering. Not saying it's bad to pull away when things are heated or anything like that but deciding to give it a try and then pulling way back and him drawing you back in is just as bad if not worse than going all in.
There are no clear cut boundaries here right now, one day you two are together, then there is a break for a week, then you are back together. It either is something where you are all in and going to work through it or it isn't.
In the meantime, distancing for periods just allows for everyone to cool off and forget all the transgressions. Then you are thrown back in to it. This is more like a repetitive boxing match than a relationship right now.
He goes off on a tangent and then tries to work his way back in to your life.
The key thing I think, from what you have said is that each and every time he reverts back to unacceptable behaviour toward you after an incredibly brief "honeymoon" period.
This push-pull rut you are in is really bad. I've known someone in this type of situation and it's very destructive. It's really important, I think that you either decide to be in or out.
If you are in, be all the way in. No dithering. Not saying it's bad to pull away when things are heated or anything like that but deciding to give it a try and then pulling way back and him drawing you back in is just as bad if not worse than going all in.
There are no clear cut boundaries here right now, one day you two are together, then there is a break for a week, then you are back together. It either is something where you are all in and going to work through it or it isn't.
In the meantime, distancing for periods just allows for everyone to cool off and forget all the transgressions. Then you are thrown back in to it. This is more like a repetitive boxing match than a relationship right now.
But in these threads, everyone here only see the bad bits..... I've shared very personal information on the negative side of the relationship.... not the positive side.... no one will see the good here because that's not the stuff I'm reporting on. And even if I try to explain the good - everyone here will label that as 'honeymoon'.... yes we're not perfect but in our own ways, we are trying - both getting weekly therapy and he has stopped drinking....Yes there is loads of work to do.... and underneath all this fronting and defensiveness there is love...I know that. I want to be all in.... I want nothing more than that....I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to do ....I don't know how to communicate that to him right now,
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surfbee…...I get it that there were good times and that there are aspects of our loved ones that are not usually reported, on this forum. Really--I don't think many people would have entered the relationship, if there weren't good qualities that they were attracted to.....Most all people, here, say that they miss the good parts.
I believe that you were with him longer than the "honeymoon" period....am I wrong, about that?
Detaching from someone that you love is extremely hard...especially, in the beginning. You don't have to stop loving, you know. The detaching is to protect yourself from pain and damage from a relationship that is toxic for yourself.
From my own experience...at one time, I had to detach from my own son....and, you can believe that I did not stop loving him. There is no stronger bonding than between parent and child....the child that came from your own body...your own flesh and blood. The one that Nature requires for you to carry under your wing for almost 2 decades.
That is a love that never dies...no matter what the circumstances....or anger, or whatever occurs. The detachment was for him and for me. It helped and it was necessary. Thankfully, we were both able to come back together, in love.
I would never ask you to stop loving. And, I do assume that there is much of the relationship that you have not described, here.
It is really hard to get a complete picture of a person or relationship, on the internet, alone. It is even hard to tell the whole story in a movie....a 2 hour movie…
Most people who come to the forum, and stay for a length of time, do get angry at the other posters...who seem to be saying the opposite of what the poster really wants, deep down....to have a reconnection with the loved one, the way it was in the past.
after all, most come, at first, describing the things that are bringing them great pain....but, over time, the mind has a way of having selective recall (for good reasons)….and remember the good times that they miss....over the pain.
so many times, I have seen couples break up. Then, start missing the ex. Then get back together--and it is great, again...for a while. Then the person says "NOW, I remember why we broke up, in the first place!"
Deep seated issues don't just go away, even if time has passed.
I am not saying that this is you...just a pattern that I have observed happening, many times.....
If you really want to go back, I say to go back....because people usually always end up doing what they want to do, deep down, anyway....
at least, you will be aware of what to expect
I do not say this to people who have children in the mix...because I always think of the children, first...but, fortunately, you don't have than to complicate matters.
I believe that you were with him longer than the "honeymoon" period....am I wrong, about that?
Detaching from someone that you love is extremely hard...especially, in the beginning. You don't have to stop loving, you know. The detaching is to protect yourself from pain and damage from a relationship that is toxic for yourself.
From my own experience...at one time, I had to detach from my own son....and, you can believe that I did not stop loving him. There is no stronger bonding than between parent and child....the child that came from your own body...your own flesh and blood. The one that Nature requires for you to carry under your wing for almost 2 decades.
That is a love that never dies...no matter what the circumstances....or anger, or whatever occurs. The detachment was for him and for me. It helped and it was necessary. Thankfully, we were both able to come back together, in love.
I would never ask you to stop loving. And, I do assume that there is much of the relationship that you have not described, here.
It is really hard to get a complete picture of a person or relationship, on the internet, alone. It is even hard to tell the whole story in a movie....a 2 hour movie…
Most people who come to the forum, and stay for a length of time, do get angry at the other posters...who seem to be saying the opposite of what the poster really wants, deep down....to have a reconnection with the loved one, the way it was in the past.
after all, most come, at first, describing the things that are bringing them great pain....but, over time, the mind has a way of having selective recall (for good reasons)….and remember the good times that they miss....over the pain.
so many times, I have seen couples break up. Then, start missing the ex. Then get back together--and it is great, again...for a while. Then the person says "NOW, I remember why we broke up, in the first place!"
Deep seated issues don't just go away, even if time has passed.
I am not saying that this is you...just a pattern that I have observed happening, many times.....
If you really want to go back, I say to go back....because people usually always end up doing what they want to do, deep down, anyway....
at least, you will be aware of what to expect
I do not say this to people who have children in the mix...because I always think of the children, first...but, fortunately, you don't have than to complicate matters.
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I hear you and although you haven't shared that, I do know. I have also said that exact same thing when discussing a relationship I was in with someone else.
Fact is you don't need to mention it because it's a given. I don't for one minute think you just like to be battered emotionally. I understand that when he isn't storming out due to a choice in TV show (which wasn't about TV at all) that you two might be laughing or having lunch quite peacefully and discussing who knows what - normal things, the weather, his Aunt's trip to Greece.
That's all good but there is a real dark side here.
I think you are a strong person. Perhaps people have told you that before? Everyone has a breaking point.
Do you ever think to yourself, how long can I do this for? I'm exhausted carrying this burden. How much more strength do I have?
If you are asking yourself that or something similar (which is maybe what brought you to SR), then that is the time for all hands on deck.
So don't worry about the potentially skewed view, anyone here who has been in an abusive relationship knows there has to be some "up" side sometimes or who would stick around or even start out in a relationship.
How do you explain this to him, the being all in? You don't necessarily need to really, that is your boundary. You need to decide you are all in. That means no "breaking up". You are in or you are out. That also means you will have to deal with all his stuff, but you already know that.
Fact is you don't need to mention it because it's a given. I don't for one minute think you just like to be battered emotionally. I understand that when he isn't storming out due to a choice in TV show (which wasn't about TV at all) that you two might be laughing or having lunch quite peacefully and discussing who knows what - normal things, the weather, his Aunt's trip to Greece.
That's all good but there is a real dark side here.
I think you are a strong person. Perhaps people have told you that before? Everyone has a breaking point.
Do you ever think to yourself, how long can I do this for? I'm exhausted carrying this burden. How much more strength do I have?
If you are asking yourself that or something similar (which is maybe what brought you to SR), then that is the time for all hands on deck.
So don't worry about the potentially skewed view, anyone here who has been in an abusive relationship knows there has to be some "up" side sometimes or who would stick around or even start out in a relationship.
How do you explain this to him, the being all in? You don't necessarily need to really, that is your boundary. You need to decide you are all in. That means no "breaking up". You are in or you are out. That also means you will have to deal with all his stuff, but you already know that.
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Originally Posted by trailmix
You need to decide you are all in. That means no "breaking up". You are in or you are out. That also means you will have to deal with all his stuff, but you already know that.
But trailmix is right. It's decision time. I know from first hand experience, this break-up, make-up cycle is incredible destructive, and you can sort of get addicted to the drama, making it harder and harder to leave even if things get way worse. Think about your standards before you ever met your bf. Would you ever think that you would allow a partner to treat you the way he has? If not, then ask yourself why it is ok now.
My ex wasn't physically abusive but my therapist gave a good analogy of why a woman might stay in an relationship with abuse. When the relationship starts, the woman firmly has the boundary, "I will never be with a man who calls me a b****". The relationship starts out well, but then that boundary is broken. So she says, "well it's just a word, he was angry, etc., but I would never stay with a man that abuses me." But then one day, he slaps her. And she says, "well, it's just a slap, I'm fine, he was angry, he apologized, it won't happen again, etc, but I'd never stay if he beat me." And then it happens. And she rationalizes and stays. If the man would have beat her early on in the relationship, would she have stayed? (sorry don't mean to be sexist, could go either way gender-wise)
As other posters have said, if you decide to stay, then be all-in. You can't expect anything different from him; you'll have to accept him the way he is and hope that he gets the help he needs and becomes the partner you want. If that's your choice, you'll have to put effort into figuring out ways to protect yourself and your own feelings. If you decide to leave, it will be really painful for a few months. I suggest no contact at all.
Good luck!
--Liz
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Thanks girls for sharing your insights, views and experiences.... I wish i wasn't experiencing this right now... But here I am. I'm torn and don't know what to do.
My two options... Either to be his crutch that he sometimes attacks me with... Accept that about him, be the soothing pillow he needs and pander to him... No challenging him....no arguing.... Just be a gentle calm source for him.... And if i don't feel calm, and he's in a mood. I need to deal with that alone....and not expect his support....and hope he'll get better one day... Or not....
Or, leave him be and let him work out his problems alone, hope he'll get the help the needs, and risk losing him forever.... But strive for a new life.... Even though i love him... But try to move on from him... Go through the pain for the next few months...and hope he'll get better... Or not...
These are my two choices 😔 each one hurts.
My two options... Either to be his crutch that he sometimes attacks me with... Accept that about him, be the soothing pillow he needs and pander to him... No challenging him....no arguing.... Just be a gentle calm source for him.... And if i don't feel calm, and he's in a mood. I need to deal with that alone....and not expect his support....and hope he'll get better one day... Or not....
Or, leave him be and let him work out his problems alone, hope he'll get the help the needs, and risk losing him forever.... But strive for a new life.... Even though i love him... But try to move on from him... Go through the pain for the next few months...and hope he'll get better... Or not...
These are my two choices 😔 each one hurts.
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No matter what way I look, everything appears very depressing. I am not thinking clearly... definitely not feeling centred and haven't been for the last week....so not thinking from a place of love, for him or for myself ...so I need to allow myself some space to breathe and take my time here.
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I do think that you have a third choice and that is to take care of yourself at each moment regardless of whether he chooses to address his issues or not, regardless of what he is or isn't doing, and to recognize that no matter what the future holds, putting your happiness in anyone else's hands--either an addict or the world's emotionally healthiest human--is a losing proposition. It truly is an inside job.
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you might think of it this way...
Either be a mommy to a verbally abusive narcissistic man-baby
Or
leave him be and let him work out his problems alone, hope he'll get the help the needs, and TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE
These are your two choices 😔 and, actually, only one of those things hurts permanently. The other turns from short-term pain into long-term serenity.
Or
leave him be and let him work out his problems alone, hope he'll get the help the needs, and TAKE BACK YOUR LIFE
These are your two choices 😔 and, actually, only one of those things hurts permanently. The other turns from short-term pain into long-term serenity.
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
These are my two choices 😔 each one hurts.
When I was going through this with my ex, I was devastated. I thought my life was over (so silly now, but I actually thought that). My mom shared with me something that she had never told me before. She was married for a very short time before she married my father. She dated this man in high school and college and thought he was the love of her life. Then she realized that it was not going to work out (she didn't say specifics, but it seemed like he may have cheated on her). Her dad (my grandpa) was a minister and at the time had just started an assignment in a new parish. Not only was she devastated about the marriage ending, but she also worried about how it would look for my grandpa in his new position to have a daughter that was getting divorced. But my grandpa went with her to divorce court and handed her a slip of paper that said, "Greater is the power lifting you up", which she has kept all these years. A few years later, she met my dad, who is a wonderful, caring, kind, honest, loyal man; a great husband and father. Their marriage isn't perfect, but there is mutual love, respect, responsibility, and trust. It's a true partnership.
I'm telling you this because you seem to be thinking that this man is the only man you will ever love and that, without him, you will never be happy again in your life. I really don't think that that is the case. Yes, you probably will be sad for few months, maybe a year even. But if you give yourself a sufficient chance to get away from this, you may find that you're much happier than you were. I know it's really easy to say this and harder to believe at the point you are at, just trying to give some perspective.
--Liz
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
to be his crutch that he sometimes attacks me with... Accept that about him, be the soothing pillow he needs and pander to him... No challenging him....no arguing.... Just be a gentle calm source for him.... And if i don't feel calm, and he's in a mood. I need to deal with that alone....and not expect his support....and hope he'll get better one day... Or not....
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I think we often get lost in the complications that fill these unhealthy relationships. Those complications become excuses and justifications for why we accept unacceptable behavior from the people who say they care about and love us.
What you really need to ask yourself is which life has he lived the longest
the drinking one with the dysfunctional marriage and now ex and drama along with treating her badly.
Or
The few years one with you, that still includes drinking and his dysfunction with his ex and kids and treating you badly .
We can’t date “potential” we have to date the reality of who they are.
It really is sad when we have to reduce a simple “like” on something we have posted on social media into them offering us a sign of peace. That right there really tells you a lot about this relationship.
What you really need to ask yourself is which life has he lived the longest
the drinking one with the dysfunctional marriage and now ex and drama along with treating her badly.
Or
The few years one with you, that still includes drinking and his dysfunction with his ex and kids and treating you badly .
We can’t date “potential” we have to date the reality of who they are.
It really is sad when we have to reduce a simple “like” on something we have posted on social media into them offering us a sign of peace. That right there really tells you a lot about this relationship.
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Surfbee…...I think that sometimes, if we step way...way back from a situation....things become more clear....
sort of like the difference between standing in the middle of a square, of a town, with lots of stuff going on....and, contrasting that with looking down on the same town from high atop a hill....it looks and feels different....
Sometimes, the simplest elements can tell us the most. I have dated self-centered people (not bad people, but, somewhat self absorbed)….and I have been deeply loved....
this is what I have learned----
When you are with someone who can really love you....you feel loved.
When you are with someone who really gets you....you feel heard and seen and you just know that you matter (to them).
When you are safe in a relationship...you feel safe.
Love does not hurt....and it does not require on to give up parts of ourselves....it allows us to flourish and thrive....even under the worst of circumstances......there is a big difference between thriving and just existing.....
sort of like the difference between standing in the middle of a square, of a town, with lots of stuff going on....and, contrasting that with looking down on the same town from high atop a hill....it looks and feels different....
Sometimes, the simplest elements can tell us the most. I have dated self-centered people (not bad people, but, somewhat self absorbed)….and I have been deeply loved....
this is what I have learned----
When you are with someone who can really love you....you feel loved.
When you are with someone who really gets you....you feel heard and seen and you just know that you matter (to them).
When you are safe in a relationship...you feel safe.
Love does not hurt....and it does not require on to give up parts of ourselves....it allows us to flourish and thrive....even under the worst of circumstances......there is a big difference between thriving and just existing.....
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Originally Posted by Surfbee
But here I am. I'm torn and don't know what to do.
This relationship will be over (if not actually physically separating yourselves) emotionally either way.
There is zero possibility that you can maintain option A. I am no therapist but I know that to be the truth.
For this to have any chance of working you would really have to go to a third option and that is not pandering to him. That is being yourself, for real. If you are not calm, you are not calm, if your feelings are trampled on, you need to express that.
Now in reality you don't seem to believe that this relationship can work out on that basis, each person just being real. That may be true, I don't know. What I believe is that is the only way there is even the slightest chance this could work out.
Might it just cause chaos and resentments and arguments, perhaps, probably (which is why pandering in option A is how you see this going forward?) but that's what I mean by the all in.
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