March1234

(First Post)

All,
Looking for some direction as to where to get ideas and/or help to prevent a relapse or alcohol problem from reoccurring with a special friend... here's the details:

I divorced my wife of 40 years a few years ago because of her alcohol problem that we tried solving for about 20 years without success. After many councilors, expensive full time programs, etc., etc., nothing worked and I gave up. We parted fairly friendly, but the last 3 years or so was just hell. And we remained very good friends after the separation and divorce. We always cared for each other.

I did get involved with another woman and came close to making it permanent, but ended up with some issues that couldn't be solved, we parted several months ago.

My ex wife had been sober for the previous 14 months, however, she occasionally had some wine with friends. She had totally quit the binge drinking and remained sober. I reconnected with her and because of our caring for each other, we are going to try to finish our lives out together. We've been together now for 3 months, and had only one scare, but otherwise, I've had no issues.

She is still sensitive when we talk about it, but we have decided to put the past ugliness and fighting behind us permanently and go forward with a positive future, but we clearly agreed that the alcohol abuse cannot return.

So far, so good.

I'm also a drinker, but a moderate light beer drinker, and don't ever get high, and as time goes on, I'm consuming less and less. I've told her, if my beer is ever and issue, I'll not drink. She does not have an issue with this.

So, here's my question: Where can I go, or what forum can I post in to get information and knowledge that will support her with her soberness? I want to be positive with her, but I am cautious and concerned about any future problems. I don't want to threaten her or give ultimatums, but be there when or if she needs support to make her succeed.

She has also dramatically changed her whole live in the time we've been apart. Her outlook is better, health and physically condition is better, and she is more active. She has volunteered for some things which has helped a lot. Right now, she is looking for more volunteering. Without that, she spends a lot of time around the house unproductive, just watching TV, reading or doing crossword puzzles.

We also spend time together. We allow for an hour or more when we get up with coffee, and dinners and relax after with tv or just relax watching the sun go down. We do dinner out once a week or more, do outdoor activities like kayaking, walking, etc.

Sounds pretty good, and it is. Just want to keep it that way.

Comments?

biminiblue

All any of us have is today. Can't live in the future.

Why not deal with any problems when and if they come up?

AnvilheadII

hi and welcome. you sound like a very decent man and i truly wish you the best.

cuttin' to the chase, this jumped out at me:

My ex wife had been sober for the previous 14 months, however, she occasionally had some wine with friends. She had totally quit the binge drinking and remained sober. I reconnected with her and because of our caring for each other, we are going to try to finish our lives out together. We've been together now for 3 months, and had only one scare, but otherwise, I've had no issues.


if i read this right, she IS still drinking and sometime within the last three months drank "too much". sober is an all or nothing proposition....if you drink at all, you are not then "sober" and if you have problems WITH your drinking then continiung to drink leaves the door wide open for all those problems to return....sometimes quickly, sometimes slowly.

i'd advise caution my friend. yes you want to ride out the rest of this story hand in hand, but that won't go so well if she has a drink in the other hand. also keep in mind (this might sting a bit) that she was doing fairly WELL while you two were apart.....which means she can conduct herself and her life and make her own choices without your influence, support or guidance.

more will be revealed. if she is truly dedicated to sobriety that will show itself....if she plans to retain the right to drink that will show itself as well.

FireSprite

Welcome to SR!

So, here are my thoughts... Sober doesn't include having wine with friends, so 14 months isn't accurate if it includes that activity. Just quitting binge drinking doesn't make her in recovery or sober in any way... which is part of why she's still sensitive about it when you try to talk to her. Alcoholism IS progressive, it's an absolute, non-negotiable, unavoidable fact of the disease.

You reconciled 3 months ago & already had one "scare", which is red flag activity my friend. I would proceed with caution, stay vigilant.

You can best support her by supporting yourself first. Have you educated yourself about addiction & codependency & all that it involves? Do you work any kind of recovery yourself as a family member to an addict?

Refiner

Well.... they were apart... she SAID she was doing well. She could have been getting smashed everynight and he wouldn't have known about it.

BlueChair

Interesting point in your post. Abstaining 100% vs moderating so to speak. Some people actually can moderate. she may or may not be one of them, but quality of life is whats important IMO.

On the Secular Family Forum most of us are in relationships and want to support our loved ones. Some of us use no support outside SR, others use therapy (alone or with their spouse) and some use tools from Smart Recovery (behavioral based) and CRAFT Community Reinforcement and Family Training. You might like this because its about self care, but also encourages people to stay engaged, listen, commumicate with their loved one. The book, Beyond Addiction How Science and Kindness Help People Change by J.Foote is great. I loved it!

totallytrying

You should go over to the Alcoholism board and ask everyone there about moderation before you post things like that. Simply irresponsible on your part to mislead vulnerable, hurting people.

iGirl66

Blue chair is not being irresponsible. There is a difference between full on alcoholics and problem drinkers. Either way, by addressing the underlying issues and engaging in congestive behavioral therapy, not just putting the bottle down, some people have returned to an even keel drinking wise with no problems. Some people actually can moderate because they realized that they aren't as powerless as they thought. The idea that this is a life long disease in black and white with no cure is not the only approach. Many people in my group do have an occasional beer, but they have learned to recognize their addictive voice and not go over the edge.

That said, live your life, enjoy one day at a time, set your boundaries, but you can't prevent a relapse, only she can. Good luck!

CodeJob

I'd keep the distance in your new reiteration of your relationship. It sounds like you both may be doing better by not relying on one another so much. You two probably had some really bad family systems stuff going on dealing with addiction for as long as you did. Also she probably moderated because she didn't have you to rely on any longer. She is not sober exactly. You may very well still be quite codependent in your behaviors with her too.

March1234

Anvilhead,

Thx for the reply. I'm not here to argue semantics, but sober is "not effected by alcohol... not drunk".... it doesn't mean no drinks, period. If you have a better definition for what I mean to say, I'll use that.

I didn't say she drank "too much" I said I was scared. She had two drinks of wine, and it scare me. She was still sober. I'm probably extremely cautious and "scared" so I'm very concerned that things could get worse.

There are different philosophies on if an alcoholic can return "safely" to drinking. And there are disagreements among the experts on the "all or none" philosophy. I know MANY that have returned to drinking successfully without abusing. I also know some people that may never make it anywhere with any form of success.

Yes, she did well when we were apart, and is doing the same while we are together. I can't possibly know here every action while we were apart, but have enough friends and the fact that I believe her, that I feel she has turned her life around. I can't imagine my returning has hurt her situation. We did spend perhaps 25 years together that was virtually perfect, and yes, we both drank.... in moderation. Neither of us were "drunks" in out early years.

My goal here is to get better educated on how I can help if it becomes a problem, and give her support and encouragement so it doesn't become a problem. (She is also supporting me similar in my problems... but a totally different situation).

I've been to MANY, MANY treatment situations with her... both with and without her, from counselors, psychologists, therapy sessions to expensive full time, many week treatment programs. While I'm no expert, I've done a TON of research and educating myself on this subject. One thing I have learned.... over and over again. Most of the formal programs, like AA, do not work. The programs that do work better, are a lot smaller and a lot of one on one, with someone that knows how to help. And the help of a loved one is significant, but has to be applied right to be effective.

I hope this forum will provide more education and good ideas on how to deal with and prevent an issue with drinking.

Thanks.

March1234

FireSprite,

See my post above about supporting myself first.... done a ton of education, seminars, clinics, counselors, etc and tens of thousands of dollars... but still a long way from being an expert.... still learning.

Sensitive may have been the wrong word... concerned could be better. We talk about it frequently. She wants it to be positive and is afraid I may bring up some of the ugly past. We have agreed to leave the past behind us and will only make reference to it for making improvement in the future. We are doing some rebuilding and we both realize that will take time and we both understand that we are both cautious.

Thanks for your help.

Needabreak

I think that the great majority of us who post here tried what you are describing and spent many years trying to deal with and prevent issues with our loved ones' drinking. And I think that for many of us it did not work.

You may want to check the "secular connections for friends and family forum "(also in the SR Friends and Family section). What I have read over there seems to be more in keeping with your philosophy / expectations.

lillamy

Hi March -- and welcome. You'll find that here as everywhere, people have different ideas. All I would encourage you to do is educate yourself about alcoholism and let rational thinking and a wise mind guide you when you navigate what sources you deem trustworthy.

What helped me was realizing I shouldn't be helping another adult with managing aspects of their life that was theirs and theirs only to decide. My ex never chose sobriety and recovery. I chose to no longer share my life with him. I think the only thing any one of us can ever do is make informed decisions and work on ourselves staying in a healthy mind about things -- which is why I would also suggest going to Al-Anon. Al-Anon wasn't about my husband's alcoholism -- but it taught me to first live a meaningful rich life while being married to an actively drinking alcoholic, and then work on healing the parts of me that had developed unhealthy coping mechanisms as a result of being married to an alcoholic.

For me, the main one of those coping mechanisms was denying my own needs in order to focus on his. My suggestion for you would be to go into this new union with eyes open, knowing that whether your wife drinks or not will be her personal choice and that any attempts from you to prevent or stop it will harm you and very likely have little effect on her.

lillamy

Oh and PS: None of us are experts, other than on our own lives. I think that's another thing this journey with someone else's alcoholism has taught me: At the end of the day, nobody can really tell me what I should do, because nobody else is responsible for the decisions I make or have to live with the consequences of them.

March1234

IGirl,

Thx, very good post. She is a very strong, self willed and goal oriented person, also very successful and well educated. However, none of us are immune to an addiction. Why she became so dependent on alcohol we will never know (or if I had a cause in it), and neither did some 25 experts that helped us along the way, although I have my suspicions. When she decided enough was enough, she quit.

While I'd prefer she not drink at all, I can certainly live with her drinking if she can control it. So far, it's working. However, I'm always looking for ways and thing I can do for her that will support her goal to stay sober (not drunk or dependent).

I appreciate the comments, and would like to learn more on how and why an alcoholic can quit drinking excessively and end up doing just fine with an occasional drink. And, so we know what we're talking about, she went from having as much as a fifth or two per day and some of her worst times, to perhaps one glass of wine a week (maybe less). That's a huge change.

You mentioned congestive behavioral therapy, perhaps you mean cognitive behavioral therapy. And yes, that has come into the picture. I have a current counselor that uses that, and I'm trying to incorporate that into our relationship to be more effective. Additional info is appreciated.

March1234

Code,
Family issues were not an issue. Both of us grew up with loving parents, and a great childhood. Our dating, marriage, careers and child raising was as good as it could be. We were both professionals and both made sacrifices that worked well so we could both pursue our careers and still raise a child (who, btw, turned out great and is happily married and has a great career).

The one issue that I can see as a past problem, is that she retired very early because we did not need the money. That gave us more freedoms for travel and being together (I had flexibility in my career), but perhaps gave her too much free time without anything to do. She now does volunteer work.

dandylion

Dear March....I would like to echo the post made by needabreak.
I suggest that you check out the section for Secular Connections for Friends and Family.
I believe that would be much more fitting for your philosphy/expections.

I don't believe that I can add more to what has already been said.

There is a virtual crash course in alcoholism contained in the Stickies at the top of our main page.....and, at the top of all the main pages.
The is a section titled: "Best of SR"---some really excellent material.

You are welcome to browse.....and take anything that might suit you....
If not....that is o.k., also.......

dandylion

Hawkeye13

I'm a "high end" professional who didn't have much trouble quitting when I finally decided to do it.
I was not drinking anywhere near the amount you mention, nor did I require professional help, but
I certainly would say I had a serious problem with alcohol.

After nearly three years of sobriety, I thought I could "have a glass of wine with dinner" and it worked well for awhile.
I found moderation in the short term "easy" but over time the drinking ever-so-slowly became a serious problem again.

It would be nice if she is one of the few to be able to moderate successfully, nonetheless,
I encourage both of you to be wary since for many, moderation appears to be working
but over time the craving for more, more often can creep into the equation almost without notice.

I wish you both the best

redatlanta

I agree! Since the OP stated that they tried to address her drinking for 20 years, saw 25 experts and ended up divorced, which of the two categories would you put her in? Problem Drinker?

Ok Sir here is my advice. I have never known any alcoholic that was able to ever moderate. I have seen them moderate for unexpected periods even a year or so then the Dam broke. Since I don't know every alcoholic it would be fair to say its possible (though I do not believe it is). I suggest you go to the alcoholism forum and research success rates as these are real life people who can tell you their opinions. Its always been a strange concept to me that people believe alcohol can be moderated, but hard drugs cannot. When is the last time a heroin addict copped to successfully "sobriety" and only using on special occasions? Said noone ever.

As for you - I suggest you move forward as is and give it a good long time before you make anything legal. Along the way you may be able to approach agreement to not drinking successfully. I realize your Ex has been quasi-sober for 3 years, but I think you need to be in close quarters for awhile before going for the gold. I would not get married again without a solid prenup. Hope it works out for you there's a lot of time invested in this relationship, and it would be nice to hear a happy ending.

redatlanta

Just saw this or I would have answered in my other post. There was a great article that addressed this I read a couple months back. I will look for it. In a nutshell there isn't any evidence that moderation works. In order to ascertain a candidate would have to be followed until they die.

There are many alcoholic that don't drink every day. There are some that white knuckle. Some that seem to get it under control. Some that switch their DOC.

The question is not "can moderation work for awhile" rather "can moderation work forever". My husband relapsed after 10 years sober. He decided 10 years sober proved he was not an A because if he were really an A he would not have been able to not drink for 10 years. Great argument. And he did moderate for several months. Then he blew it in a night, and it wasn't pretty.

Your ex may be able to moderate for a couple of years, maybe she will be the rare bird that moderates forever. Dunno. What I do know is her risk for relapse is higher than someone who is in recovery, and doesn't drink at all.