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First overnight a nightmare

Old 12-09-2014, 08:47 AM
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First overnight a nightmare

Kids spent one overnight with their dad last weekend... He texted me LATE (obscenely late) to say DD6 refused to listen to him, was a brat and would not sleep and that I needed to call her and get her to listen.

So I did.

He ran them ragged the next day, no down time, crap parenting choice and they both were filthy, exhausted and still, 2 days later, MISERABLE because they are beyond over tired.

I am dreading the fact he has an overnight once a week now...

Our poor kids are missing out on events with friends, playdates, and can look forward to starting each week exhausted now thanks to his parenting choices.

Total nightmare.

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Old 12-09-2014, 08:51 AM
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My X actually told me that he calls me when there are discipline issues b/c he is not with them enough to discipline them and is not comfortable doing so b/c it would ruin their time together. He is a total idiot. Luckily, my kids don't require much discipline, but they will run all over him when they get a bit older, which is what I told him.

You cannot do anything about it, so try to let it go as best you can.

XXX
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:54 AM
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How old are the kiddos? At some point they can say "no" to visiting their dad.
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:57 AM
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That's hard. I am so sorry you're dealing with this. Handing them over to him must break your heart.

I had similar issues with AXH. He would text me and tell me I needed to deal with some discipline problem when the kids were with him. Because I was worried about how he would handle it if I didn't, I would do that at first. But after a while I refused. I'm not criticizing you - my kids were older and capable of getting the hell out of the house if necessary.

I ended up telling him that "if you want to be a parent, you will have to find constructive ways of interacting with the children." He didn't, and it all blew up, and he started avoiding having the kids over because it was too stressful for him... which, in the end, was better for the kids. It was hell while it lasted, though. They would call me at all odd hours crying and telling me he was being mean, and all I could say was "since you have to be there, you have to find a way to handle it."

Their way of handling it ended with him giving up custody.
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Old 12-09-2014, 01:59 PM
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maybe he'll get tired of this REAL soon?
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Old 12-09-2014, 02:59 PM
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My words are coming from walking in your shoes, granted my exhusband was not an alcoholic, but a work alcoholic, and when he took our three daughters I was on pins and needles, as he would push envelope and go to certain extremes, of which I had zero control over, as the Judge warned me in court that I "must promote a healthy relationship with the non-custodial parent , or with a swipe of a pen, he could change custody."

As far as the playdates and other kids events, there certainly will be more events, and other playdates, you can't beat yourself up on this, kids really do not need to be on the go constantly, a bit of down time/ family time is ok too. ( and maybe just maybe, they can rebuild a relationship,)

It took a bit for me to realize that the girls really did enjoy their time with their dad, even though it was over the top activities, but in front of me they down played how much fun they had, because I think they were trying to protect my feelings, and not wanting me to feel left out. And yes, they were tired and crabby for a day or two after.

Certainly, I know the difference from an alcoholic, and a work alcoholic, but the ego, and selfishness , they both have in common, leave alot to be desired. But this is all new territory for everyone. My hope for your family, is, in time things will calm down, and there will be an element of normalcy. There relationship is "there's" to develop.

As long as he is not actively drinking in front of them, so what if they come home needing showers?

I've read your posts and I know this guy is a jerk, but I did not read in your post that he was drunk and put the kids in harm's way, please go easy on yourself here, it is an adjustment period.

(((hugs))))
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Old 12-09-2014, 03:36 PM
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Marie,

He actually is a drunk and abusive to the kids in a variety of ways.

He's had supervised visits and my illustrious state believes giving abusers chance after chance to damage their kids makes sense.

Child protective services has investigated him but not found his abuse of the kids to meet the legal level of neglect - this includes having driven drunk w them and being caught doing so.

So my concern is thathis carelessness about things like sleep and food and not having blankets for them to cover up with to sleep with (they slept in their coats) is just the tip of the iceberg

And downtime is also fine and good but so is being able to do their regularly scheduled events and go to bday parties or playdates. He sees "his time" as his that and doesn't care a bit about the kids wants or needs and it sucks.
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Old 12-09-2014, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
Marie,

He actually is a drunk and abusive to the kids in a variety of ways.

He's had supervised visits and my illustrious state believes giving abusers chance after chance to damage their kids makes sense.

Child protective services has investigated him but not found his abuse of the kids to meet the legal level of neglect - this includes having driven drunk w them and being caught doing so.

So my concern is thathis carelessness about things like sleep and food and not having blankets for them to cover up with to sleep with (they slept in their coats) is just the tip of the iceberg

And downtime is also fine and good but so is being able to do their regularly scheduled events and go to bday parties or playdates. He sees "his time" as his that and doesn't care a bit about the kids wants or needs and it sucks.
could they bring sleeping bags with them?
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:09 PM
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So the state says your Ex-husbands actions do not meet the "legal level of neglect"

Not exactly sure what that is a fancy word for........... ( sounds like a crock of doo doo to me)

But as missfixit said , send sleeping bags over with them, pack them some non perishable snacks, peanut butter,cheese, crackers dried fruit, etc...

I am by no means condoning your husbands actions, simply trying to come up with viable working solutions to ensure your kids well being.

I certainly cannot view making sure your kids are warm and fed while in his care as a form of enabling. You are simply being mom. and taking care of business

My exhusband also had the "my time mentality" so i do know what you are saying, I had to let go of the Birthday party and play date stuff, after all it was COURT ORDERED, .

Gotta stay in YOUR sandbox, and work with what you do have control over.
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Old 12-10-2014, 03:02 AM
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I'll send the sleeping bags this week. Offered them last week too and he said that I was insulting him. It's just a shame to see how he uses them as pawns.
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:19 AM
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My NPDx doesn't want to provide basic things for DS15, and thinks I'm insulting him by sending DS with a bag of clothes and a blanket.

But you send a bag of clothes and a blanket with them enough (and instructions to try to bring it all home, which may or may not happen) he'll be embarrassed enough to provide them himself, in my experience.
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Old 12-10-2014, 05:47 AM
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My advice in this situation is unless you can see or they report flat out abuse is to try and back away as much as possible.

My ex-husband/alcoholic was a horrible parent. He was a good play daddy i.e. pizza, Cheetos, video games, watching movies until 5am, chocolate for breakfast and they slept on the floor or couches.

He called me when the kids acted up and would not listen to him. I also got on the phone with them. I had to stop doing that and let him be the parent. If they can let someone else do it, they will and that goes for everything. Clothing, blankets, food, discipline. They will not take on a responsibility if someone else is willing and ready to take it on. The less you are involved the less he can throw at you later as being to controlling.

Did my ex ever become a good parent? no. Did he ever get sober, no.

But his kids loved him and they still miss him. I regret being as controlling and out spoken about his short comings in front of them. (I am not saying you are doing this, I am just relating my experience).

I wanted to control how he behaved with them, what he did with them, how he did it and when he did it. In the end it did not really matter. He was the best parent/father he was capable of being at the time. He made mistakes but they were his mistakes.

Work with what you can and leave the rest on his shoulders were it should be when they are with him. He is never going to do it like you.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
I'll send the sleeping bags this week. Offered them last week too and he said that I was insulting him. It's just a shame to see how he uses them as pawns.
Mentally ill parents are weird. When I was a kid, toys my mom's family gave to my sister and me had to stay at her house. Anything she gave us or from her family had to stay at her place. We saw her every other weekend, so there were some tears when we had to part with "our" stuff including clothes they gave us. I remember begging her to let me take a cabbage patch kid my grandmother (her mother) gave to me. She would not. It had to remain in our room at her place until we could play with it again on our next visit. It was really sick stuff. As a kid, you just learn to detach as a survival skill.

FWIW, she did the same with "her" time with us. She viewed us as her property, not real people. We have no relationship with her now, just to let you know how these scenarios play out. Her behavior never improved. As adults she acts like our (my sister and mine) very demanding child. Always about her.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:55 AM
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Mentally ill parents are weird. When I was a kid, toys my mom's family gave to my sister and me had to stay at her house. Anything she gave us or from her family had to stay at her place. We saw her every other weekend, so there were some tears when we had to part with "our" stuff including clothes they gave us. I remember begging her to let me take a cabbage patch kid my grandmother (her mother) gave to me. She would not. It had to remain in our room at her place until we could play with it again on our next visit. It was really sick stuff. As a kid, you just learn to detach as a survival skill.
NPDx does the same thing with DS15. In fact, he won't buy DS clothes because DS will just wear them home to my house.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:49 PM
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OMG, the kids came home Sunday saying that they had a few new things (toy stuff) their dad had bought them and DD6 promptly reported "it HAS to stay ONLY at Daddys house". I did not push the issue but was and AM disgusted. He buys them stuff to be excited about then only allows them to use it when they are there?

That is just BS insanity.

Ironically I sent them with new coloring books I had just gotten them (actually they used tooth fairy money they had saved to buy them themselves) because they wanted to bring them to color in and show their dad. I could not have cared less if they made it home or not.

The point is for the kids to have fun with their stuff... Not for the psycho adult to use kids stuff to lure kids into wanting to be with him...

UGH UGH UGH.

Good to know I guess, that other mentally unwell parents have done this too...

My heart just aches for my kids...

Originally Posted by MissFixit View Post
Mentally ill parents are weird. When I was a kid, toys my mom's family gave to my sister and me had to stay at her house. Anything she gave us or from her family had to stay at her place. We saw her every other weekend, so there were some tears when we had to part with "our" stuff including clothes they gave us. I remember begging her to let me take a cabbage patch kid my grandmother (her mother) gave to me. She would not. It had to remain in our room at her place until we could play with it again on our next visit. It was really sick stuff. As a kid, you just learn to detach as a survival skill.

FWIW, she did the same with "her" time with us. She viewed us as her property, not real people. We have no relationship with her now, just to let you know how these scenarios play out. Her behavior never improved. As adults she acts like our (my sister and mine) very demanding child. Always about her.
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:53 PM
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I dunno, I have a slightly different take on this, maybe because I was the non-custodial parent. There were toys and games that I wanted kept at my house--not for reasons of control, but because that way I was sure they had some things that were not exactly what they had at home that were fun to play with at my place. And schlepping tons of toys or games back and forth is a pain.

I'm sure if there were something really special they wanted to have at their dad's house I would have let them take it, but it never seemed to be an issue--they liked playing with stuff at my house, and they had other cool stuff at their dad's.

I know when it IS used as a control thing it isn't cool, but I don't know that it's always a bad thing, either.

I sort of think when you aren't cooperating with the other parent (and I don't mean to suggest it's possible, in your situation, to cooperate), just about everything feels offensive.

Heh, I've often said the ONLY argument the kids' dad and I ever had about splitting up was over the Nintendo. I wanted him to keep it and he wanted ME to take it. Those little Mario Brothers tunes drove us INSANE.
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Old 12-10-2014, 08:35 PM
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Child protective services has investigated him but not found his abuse of the kids to meet the legal level of neglect - this includes having driven drunk w them and being caught doing so.
So damn infuriating it's... aaaargh. I know we've talked about this before, about how when all this is over and our kids are safe and we have our peace back, we're going to lobby our state legislatures for changes in the laws. Everyone says the laws are there to protect the children, but if kids can be sent to stay with a guy who's driven drunk with them, that is so much

And the "I'm gonna buy them cool toys so they'll want to stay here" will only work for that long. My girlfriend's ex bought their daughter a flippin' pony. *shaking my head* The kid still figured out he was an abusive drunk, pony or no pony.
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:45 AM
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Lexie I think you're right and I think if it were anyone else I wouldn't be so skeptical but w xah everything becomes an opportunity to ecert control and manipulate and using the kids as pawns is just part of it.

My state actually writes into the standard parenting plans including ours that the things that the kids bring between the houses are their property and are to stay with the kids and not be kept hostage by the other parent. It's much more diplomatic than that but that is the just of it. I have no need for more stuff at my house so I am happy to have him have toys for the kids at his place. But when a 6 yr old seems to feel the anger from him about not letting her take anything home w her to use on the 6 days she isn't with him THAT is the crap that angers me
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Old 12-11-2014, 05:35 AM
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The point is for the kids to have fun with their stuff... Not for the psycho adult to use kids stuff to lure kids into wanting to be with him...
I think some parents are doing this to get back at the other parent. Sounds like something my AF would have done. He did similar things.
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:17 AM
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Originally Posted by wanttobehealthy View Post
Lexie I think you're right and I think if it were anyone else I wouldn't be so skeptical but w xah everything becomes an opportunity to ecert control and manipulate and using the kids as pawns is just part of it.

My state actually writes into the standard parenting plans including ours that the things that the kids bring between the houses are their property and are to stay with the kids and not be kept hostage by the other parent. It's much more diplomatic than that but that is the just of it. I have no need for more stuff at my house so I am happy to have him have toys for the kids at his place. But when a 6 yr old seems to feel the anger from him about not letting her take anything home w her to use on the 6 days she isn't with him THAT is the crap that angers me
Your exah reminds me of my non-A but mentally ill mom in several ways.

After more than 30 years of pondering this dynamic and many others, I have come to the conclusion that (in our instance and I believe yours) the mentally ill parent does this to exert control and stake their claim over the kids, the kids stuff and to show that they are "equal" to the custodial parent. I don't remember if I told you everything about my mom, but she has an actual dx of NPD from the 1980's in addition to her brain injury. The doctors did not know for sure, but believed the NPD existed before the head injury. The injury exaggerated the behaviors and ability to address it. She also got a manic depression dx back then, so what caused what who knows.

This behavior shifted for us and might with your kids as they get older from being directed at you (my dad for us) to your kids (my sis and me). It is just the way it is and we hate it but accept it and no longer try to change her or "fix" the situation.

His alcoholism will morph whatever he is in the future, but luckily your kids will have choices as they get older whether or not to see him. Just don't bad mouth him to them. I have always been worried that I will turn into my mother when I got older and so far that hasn't happened, but my dad taking shots at her personality dx and mental illness throughout my life has made me question whether I was genetically predisposed to develop whatever that is. If you can present info to them in such a way that they understand they have choices and do not have to turn into their dad (as they get older) they will appreciate it.

*Another note: My mother STILL has my old toys and clothes at her house. She NEVER gave them to me. They are hers in her mind and represent something I will never understand. Don't be surprised by any of this.
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