Good News/Bad News
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
Wow Stung...just Bravo!!
I think you handle things in an amazing way!! You are strong and I think your own recovery is shining!
You are controlling the environment a lot better than the courts would, I can promise you that.
Hugs!
I think you handle things in an amazing way!! You are strong and I think your own recovery is shining!
You are controlling the environment a lot better than the courts would, I can promise you that.
Hugs!
Member
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
I totally get the money thing but I'm misunderstanding what you mean about NC = controlling. (probably because our recoveries have different challenges based on our "damages")
Can you elaborate so that I may learn?
Can you elaborate so that I may learn?
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I don't feel strong. I feel worried and tired. But I have to do things differently than I have done them in the past. I already know what doesn't work.
For me to just switch my contact with him to absolutely zero is controlling because it's spiteful and it's not respectful. For me to not talk to him at all doesn't help me and it's controlling to think that I can just turn my relationships off when I feel like and turn them on again when I feel like it. We have small children together. I can answer my phone or read my texts but I don't need to respond if he isn't treating me with respect. Truth be told, hanging up on him isn't respectful either but it's not controlling, it's responding with the same level as respect as he's giving me.
My counselor advised me to tell him that he cannot be here period until he's sober and has been sober for 30 days. Just like I did in December. The agreement was that as long as he was sober he could be here and after he hit 60 days he started staying over. We're going back to basics and when the pain is great enough for him then he'll seek help. If I keep allowing him to come here when he isn't sober (sobriety means not drinking for an extended period of time, like weeks, not hours) then I'm just enabling him. That isn't good for our kids. She also agrees that he needs rehab and that a 30 day rehab would be perfectly fine. He should be able to just use his vacation time and it truly wouldn't impact me or our kids at all. Apparently there are some good rehabs around here and he could probably get himself checked in somewhere tomorrow…if he's ready to.
It was easier to do this last time because it was explosive and dramatic. This time it's slow and sad. It's difficult but I'm getting better at responding instead of reacting and doing a better job of staying on the sidelines. This is his circus, not mine and I don't want to watch the show and further, it doesn't mean that I don't love him because I don't want to watch him destroy himself.
For me to just switch my contact with him to absolutely zero is controlling because it's spiteful and it's not respectful. For me to not talk to him at all doesn't help me and it's controlling to think that I can just turn my relationships off when I feel like and turn them on again when I feel like it. We have small children together. I can answer my phone or read my texts but I don't need to respond if he isn't treating me with respect. Truth be told, hanging up on him isn't respectful either but it's not controlling, it's responding with the same level as respect as he's giving me.
My counselor advised me to tell him that he cannot be here period until he's sober and has been sober for 30 days. Just like I did in December. The agreement was that as long as he was sober he could be here and after he hit 60 days he started staying over. We're going back to basics and when the pain is great enough for him then he'll seek help. If I keep allowing him to come here when he isn't sober (sobriety means not drinking for an extended period of time, like weeks, not hours) then I'm just enabling him. That isn't good for our kids. She also agrees that he needs rehab and that a 30 day rehab would be perfectly fine. He should be able to just use his vacation time and it truly wouldn't impact me or our kids at all. Apparently there are some good rehabs around here and he could probably get himself checked in somewhere tomorrow…if he's ready to.
It was easier to do this last time because it was explosive and dramatic. This time it's slow and sad. It's difficult but I'm getting better at responding instead of reacting and doing a better job of staying on the sidelines. This is his circus, not mine and I don't want to watch the show and further, it doesn't mean that I don't love him because I don't want to watch him destroy himself.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Regarding going no contact, my counselor and everyone I've talked with in alanon have consistently told me that responding that way is controlling. I've only ever heard no contact recommended on this forum in regards to alcoholism or on reddit regarding narc parents. I don't know anyone in real life the is no contact with family members besides me. IRL it seems like other people are just better at not letting sick people get under their skin. I'm trying to get better at letting their actions be a reflection of THEM not me.
Getting there!!
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 5,750
No contact was the only way for me to gain clarity and some sanity. I did not find it controlling in the least. It was more self love and self preservation. My therapist encouraged it as well.
That said, I do not have 2 small children or am finically dependent on him any more either.
That said, I do not have 2 small children or am finically dependent on him any more either.
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I have not went NC but only communicate about our kids, nothing else. I do it for my own sanity. I respectfully disagree about it being a method to control. I think if I did so it would be about preserving my own sanity. When a person has a personality disorder and or are involved with substance abuse they make it almost impossible to rationalize with.
I am going to say that I also think this BS about only being able to speak to you, Stung, because he won't speak to anyone else is controlling and a method of keeping you involved in his mess. That is why they have counselors and need to develop their own support system, it overwhelms the family members of the addict when trying to act in that role. They need someone who understands their need to drink at 2am, the thoughts and feelings that go behind that. The families and loved ones deserve their own support systems also.
Now, you know I have the utmost respect for you and I think you handle all of this like a warrior. I am just interested to hear the theory of going NC being controlling. I mean absolutely no disrespect nor am I trying to stir the pot, I would never do so. Just confused about that theory.
Hugs. Keep taking care of YOU!
I am going to say that I also think this BS about only being able to speak to you, Stung, because he won't speak to anyone else is controlling and a method of keeping you involved in his mess. That is why they have counselors and need to develop their own support system, it overwhelms the family members of the addict when trying to act in that role. They need someone who understands their need to drink at 2am, the thoughts and feelings that go behind that. The families and loved ones deserve their own support systems also.
Now, you know I have the utmost respect for you and I think you handle all of this like a warrior. I am just interested to hear the theory of going NC being controlling. I mean absolutely no disrespect nor am I trying to stir the pot, I would never do so. Just confused about that theory.
Hugs. Keep taking care of YOU!
Member
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 6,262
I thought my life was over when I dragged myself into AA in 1991. I had a very close brush with death and I knew in my gut it was either stay sober or die. Anything less than that I wouldn't have stopped drinking, not after being fired from two jobs because I was drunk, not for anyone in the world. In AA it's called the "gift of desperation". Not everyone needs fear of death to stop drinking, but some do. The point is, if your husband gets desperate, but some do.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I am going to say that I also think this BS about only being able to speak to you, Stung, because he won't speak to anyone else is controlling and a method of keeping you involved in his mess. That is why they have counselors and need to develop their own support system, it overwhelms the family members of the addict when trying to act in that role. They need someone who understands their need to drink at 2am, the thoughts and feelings that go behind that. The families and loved ones deserve their own support systems also.
Now, you know I have the utmost respect for you and I think you handle all of this like a warrior. I am just interested to hear the theory of going NC being controlling. I mean absolutely no disrespect nor am I trying to stir the pot, I would never do so. Just confused about that theory.
Now, you know I have the utmost respect for you and I think you handle all of this like a warrior. I am just interested to hear the theory of going NC being controlling. I mean absolutely no disrespect nor am I trying to stir the pot, I would never do so. Just confused about that theory.
Member
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 976
Stung, I agree with you that to just cut him off is very controlling.
When I suggested no contact, I wasn't implying that you just cut him off, but maybe a mutually agreed upon time period of no contact unless it were about the kids, where you would have some breathing room, and he would hopefully find some more productive means of support. Maybe a way of breaking a cycle where he keeps coming to your "hardware store" looking for "bread" only to be told yet again that there isn't any, go to the grocery store.
I do know of some couples who were having various forms of discontent who did this just to regain some clarity. They essentially took a break from each other. Seemed to work out pretty well.
When I suggested no contact, I wasn't implying that you just cut him off, but maybe a mutually agreed upon time period of no contact unless it were about the kids, where you would have some breathing room, and he would hopefully find some more productive means of support. Maybe a way of breaking a cycle where he keeps coming to your "hardware store" looking for "bread" only to be told yet again that there isn't any, go to the grocery store.
I do know of some couples who were having various forms of discontent who did this just to regain some clarity. They essentially took a break from each other. Seemed to work out pretty well.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 13,560
I agree Stung, I think you are handling it wonderfully. You have put all safeguards in place and you are sitting back and letting him make choices for himself while not tolerating being around drunkenness. I think you rock, truly.
I think people minimize how important it is to be able to financially support yourself. It's scary. I can financially support myself, and I do collect child support. I am wise enough to realize that child support could stop at any given time as my X may not always be in this job position, or if alcohol takes over, any job position. It's all in the planning and keeping your eyes wide open, which you are wonderful at.
Please please don't think I am trying to rock the boat as I would never. I respect you and value your input!
I think people minimize how important it is to be able to financially support yourself. It's scary. I can financially support myself, and I do collect child support. I am wise enough to realize that child support could stop at any given time as my X may not always be in this job position, or if alcohol takes over, any job position. It's all in the planning and keeping your eyes wide open, which you are wonderful at.
Please please don't think I am trying to rock the boat as I would never. I respect you and value your input!
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
Sorry if my post is coming off defensively. I don't feel like anyone is being judgey. I'm just grumpy and I have a tendency to be very controlling so I'm trying to stay away from that as much as I can.
I WANT to fix his alcoholism SO bad. I want to find him a nice cushy rehab, take care of the insurance, pack a bag for him and drop him off for his 28 day vacation. Won't mean anything unless he does it himself. If I do it I'll be forcing him. No thanks. He's a grown man and I ain't his mama. He knows how to use google and more importantly he can call the phone number on the back of the insurance card in his wallet and set himself up. He's fully capable, just not willing.
I WANT to fix his alcoholism SO bad. I want to find him a nice cushy rehab, take care of the insurance, pack a bag for him and drop him off for his 28 day vacation. Won't mean anything unless he does it himself. If I do it I'll be forcing him. No thanks. He's a grown man and I ain't his mama. He knows how to use google and more importantly he can call the phone number on the back of the insurance card in his wallet and set himself up. He's fully capable, just not willing.
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,582
He is an alcoholic who spends no time with his kids. Did an attorney tell you that he would likely get 50% time with kids? What if you take a alight financial hit, ask for less money and get kids 100% custody and he gets limited supervised visits?
I know you say you are not ready for divorce, but just keep your options open.
I know you say you are not ready for divorce, but just keep your options open.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 2,066
I don't understand what it is that I supposedly gain from a divorce besides large legal fees. At the moment I'm getting all of his money and 100% control of our children and their whereabouts. And my kids are babies, I have a 2 year old and a 1 year old.
The other poster on here today talking about the benefits of NOT divorcing said a lot of stuff that resonated with me. I'm getting a lot of benefits right now that would be adjusted in a big way if I started the divorce process. I'd would also very likely have to move. I know a home is where ever I and my children are but why do that when I don't have to yet. Don't just do something, stand there.
The other poster on here today talking about the benefits of NOT divorcing said a lot of stuff that resonated with me. I'm getting a lot of benefits right now that would be adjusted in a big way if I started the divorce process. I'd would also very likely have to move. I know a home is where ever I and my children are but why do that when I don't have to yet. Don't just do something, stand there.
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2013
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Originally Posted by Nbgirl 
Okay...so you ROCK!!! Seriously, rock. Can I ask a question (again, not to hijack thread-these things just get me thinking)...how on earth did you get him to agree to do soberlink before coming over?
He knows he's an alcoholic. He wants to be sober. He wants to be a loving, sober, attentive dad and husband but he isn't willing to take the steps to get those things. Dude needs rehab and lots of therapy. He knows that.
Also, a huge difference in our situations is that I don't think my AH is a narcissist. Seriously, I would take a dozen run of the mill alcoholics over a narcissist any day. AH in a full blown relapse is still easier to deal with than my NPD mom.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Stung....you don't have to get divorced....you can just remain separated. Especially if you are getting the perks that matter to you.
I have known of people who were separated for years and years...without any conflict (that I could see). They lived their own independent lives, for the most part. It is just that they were still married in the legal sense.
It does appear that he is probably a dependent personality type under the alcoholism. It is damn hard to change another person's stripes. I wouldn't expect the zebra to morph into a gazelle.
It seems that dependent types are attracted to controlling types. That seems to be the way......sigh......
dandylion
I have known of people who were separated for years and years...without any conflict (that I could see). They lived their own independent lives, for the most part. It is just that they were still married in the legal sense.
It does appear that he is probably a dependent personality type under the alcoholism. It is damn hard to change another person's stripes. I wouldn't expect the zebra to morph into a gazelle.
It seems that dependent types are attracted to controlling types. That seems to be the way......sigh......
dandylion
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: atlanta, ga
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I don't really think it has ever sounded to me that you were prepared or wanting to divorce him. Seems to me you are still in love with him and still hopeful that he may get his sh!t together. I hope he does.
NC is necessary for some situations. MC (minimal) is sometimes the best that one can do when kids are involved and it sounds like that is what you are doing to a point. Neither is controlling IMO unless it comes from a place of punishment.
NC is necessary for some situations. MC (minimal) is sometimes the best that one can do when kids are involved and it sounds like that is what you are doing to a point. Neither is controlling IMO unless it comes from a place of punishment.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,781
I think I get what you're saying. Fwiw, it seems to me like NC is mostly accomplished by those dealing with EX partners when there are no kids involved or other family members. Seems like most Codies that share kids with their Qualifiers have to maintain some kind of contact in regards to the kids & other shared obligations. It makes sense & there's no one-size-fits-all answer here.
I have only ever practiced NC as a method of protecting myself. The only control it ever afforded me was control over MY world by stopping dysfunctional people from crossing my boundaries repeatedly.... when they have shown me time & time again that they refuse to respect my boundaries. In a few situations in my life I have found myself in relationships with people that are just so completely unhealthy that there is no way to engage with them; and it's not my job to run around taking other's inventory & convincing them to change. So I've chosen to go NC as a defense of MY needs.
I could see it as a method of control if it was used as punishment though.
I also stumbled into NC as a last resort, I had never heard the term when I first enforced it with my AF's FOO/extended family after his death. I knew nothing of recovery or recovery-speak. I just knew that it HURT & I wanted it to STOP. I did the same with my MIL years later when she proved to be Crazy & Toxic.
I have only ever practiced NC as a method of protecting myself. The only control it ever afforded me was control over MY world by stopping dysfunctional people from crossing my boundaries repeatedly.... when they have shown me time & time again that they refuse to respect my boundaries. In a few situations in my life I have found myself in relationships with people that are just so completely unhealthy that there is no way to engage with them; and it's not my job to run around taking other's inventory & convincing them to change. So I've chosen to go NC as a defense of MY needs.
I could see it as a method of control if it was used as punishment though.
I also stumbled into NC as a last resort, I had never heard the term when I first enforced it with my AF's FOO/extended family after his death. I knew nothing of recovery or recovery-speak.
I just knew that it HURT & I wanted it to STOP. I did the same with my MIL years later when she proved to be Crazy & Toxic.
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Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
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Ugh. I wish he would just get a DUI and go to jail. I don't want to have to tell him he can't be here at all anymore until he is working a program again. It is going to be so uncomfortable for me. It is the very best thing I can do for all four of us but oh man I don't want to.
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