cherra

He absolutely won't admit what happened nearly three weeks ago. He said that the gun went off by accident and that he did not put it to his head, tell me to leave the door open. He said I've either brainwashed our daughter into believing she saw and heard the same things or that she's a liar too. This is even after he told the police different. He says he can drink without getting drunk and that we are crazy to think he's dangerous. He is so angry that he has not been able to manipulate me into coming back home. Thanks for listening.

hopeful4

Stay the course. The thing is, he is trying to manipulate you and your not allowing it, so he is livid about it. That's what they do.

He is dangerous. Don't let him convince you otherwise. And I don't know a single alcoholic who is about to drink w/out getting drunk, not a single one.

Stay strong.

ladyscribbler

There is a name for this. It is called gaslighting. He's trying to make you question your perception of reality and make you doubt yourself. Good for you for seeing through his manipulation. He sounds like a frightening individual. He may become even more dangerous because his lies are not working. He may start sweet talking you, trying to lull you into a false sense of security. He may roll out the guilt trips, and anything else that has worked in the past. Stay strong and stay safe. Hugs to you and your daughter.

dandylion

cherra....this is pretty much par-for-the-course for an alcoholic who is still in denial. Alcoholism is sometimes called the disease of denial.
Projecting all blame onto others is also a hallmark.

Engaging in an argument with a person who is so entrenched is, invariably, a waste of breath and only causes them to dig in deeper.

You might as well expect him to be angry that you aren't buying his version of reality. Manipulation is a major tool of the active alcoholic in their relationship. When it doesn't work for them, it upsets their world. Their world largely consists of protecting their right to drink without interference. To the alcoholic, alcohol is like oxygen. They can't even imagine being able to function without it. This is how they have learned to cope with the emotions of life...the good and the bad feelings. Anyone who interferes with their ability to drink without criticism is viewed as the enemy.

Like it doesn't occur to him that a bullet is just as lethal whether it was accidental or intentional!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

cherra, this is why lots of support for you is so important....trying to deal with a n active alcoholic in denial is too much for anyone to go alone!!!

dandylion

hopeful4

My X tried that too, said he did not do the things he did when I made him leave. Problem was, I had it on video and played it back to him. That changed his tune, but not mine.

Santa

^ I tried to videotape my ex during one of his tirades, soon before we split up. I wanted to show him what he looked and sounded like because he claimed never to remember. Boy was he mad when I turned that camera on him, he really went off. Matter of fact when he realized what I doing he grabbed and smashed it so I never did get the video.

cherra - a bullet from a gun that "goes off" is just as deadly as a bullet that is shot with intention.

ShootingStar1

Cherra, I started another thread on this forum - Friends and Families of alcoholics - and gave the website for a violence threat assessment test that many police departments use. It is:

https://www.mosaicmethod.com

It is worth taking a look at, and in total confidence, seeing how your husband's behavior is assessed by this test.

There are also a number of other responses to the thread that make a very good point. Those of us who have lived with abuse often, after time goes by, don't even understand that it is abuse anymore.

I confused being used to living in a very bad situation with the situation being normal. Now, 2 years away, I can look back and I say "My God, they were right".

Take care of you and yours,

ShootingStar1

cherra

I'm missing him so much tonight. We had so many good years. The only thing that keeps me away is the memory of my daughter running out of that house hysterical. I know that's crazy but it's the truth.

dandylion

cherra...let that memory be enough. You are going to go through grief....but, don't let it derail you into going back.

dandylion

NWGRITS

That memory is the one you need to keep you motivated right now. I had people asking me how I could possibly cut my mother out of my life when she gave birth to me, yada yada yada. In my moments of weakness, I had to pull the memory of the police telling me my children were going to be taken by CPS and become wards of the state because of her drunk a$$. She was entrusted with their care FOR TWO HOURS and could have done any number of things while she was trashed beyond belief. My kids mean more to me than anything else in this world, and I would do anything to protect them. Cutting off that cancer was much easier to do when I remembered WHY I was doing it. (((HUGS)))

suki44883

There are some things that absolutely do not deserve a second chance. One of them is wielding a loaded gun around and scaring your daughter half to death. Another is shooting off a gun inside your home. These are not normal situations.

I suggest you give it a lot more time. He's already trying to convince you that you are wrong about what happened. He is in complete denial. You and your daughter know what happened. That's all that really matters.

fairlyuncertain

Cherra,
I am so sorry for what you are dealing with. I really recommend taking the quiz at this website: https://www.mosaicmethod.com
It's called the Mosaic Threat Assessment, and it was designed by security expert Gavin DeBecker, author of the Gift of Fear (a great book).
This, and the book 'why does he do that' by Lundy Bancroft really helped me. I thought of my exA as a troubled, wounded person who was just lashing out out of hurt and suffering--which I, of course, could help him with

They helped me see that I was dealing with someone who wasn't unique at all, but was following a pattern experts see over and over and over again. The pattern of abuse is actually very predictable, frighteningly so.

I'm really glad you are ok. If your son and daughter are willing, Al Anon can be a great place to learn about alcoholism and find a group of kind, supportive strangers who know what you're going through. Your domestic violence hotline can direct you to counselors and legal help.

I wish you the very best of luck, and am so glad you and your daughter are okay!!

Edited: I realize that someone already posted the link to the MOSAIC site, but I'm going to leave it in my post, it's a great tool.

cherra

It's been nearly 3 weeks. I haven't laid eyes on him but we just finished our first civil conversation since that night. He says he's not been drunk in 3 weeks. He has finally admitted pretty much what happened but not all and he still says I drove him to it. He can't understand why we are afraid. He still says the gun went off by mistake. I told him that if I could drive him to firing a gun in the house once then I might could again. I asked him if he would stop drinking and he told me no, that he couldn't stand the pain without help. I told him that I loved him but I couldn't come home while he was drinking. He said for me to do what I have to do. Obviously I'm not through the Alanon Step One. I still think if he loves me enough he will stop drinking.

dandylion

cherra---if he loved you "enough"...he already would have stopped!!!!

Don't make the mistake of thinking this is about you--and if he loves you or not.
It is about the hold that alcohol has over him. He is not drinking because of you. He is drinking because he is an alcoholic. And, that is what they do--drink....REGARDLESS of who they do or don't love.

He sounds like he is not close to wanting to get sober. Even if he DID---it would be a long time before he could be recovered enough to make the kinds of changes that you and the kids need to see. Like about 1-2yrs., at least.

I am so glad that you are going to alanon. That is the very best thing that you can do--to build a safe and secure life for you and your children. There is no value in putting your life oh hold to wait and see if he ever wants a better life.

It is a tough reality of life that we don't always get to "keep" the people that we l ove with us. We have to love them from afar.

dandylion

ladyscribbler

Big hugs cherra. I know that feeling. It ripped me apart to realize that my ex was not going to get sober for me, or for our family or love or any of that. He had to do it because he wanted to.
There were so many incidents and episodes where I thought, "This HAS to be it, he HAS to get it this time." It never was. Near death experiences, nights in the hospital, in jail, nights where I fled with the kids and stayed gone for days. Mornings after where I was head to toe bruises, the house was destroyed, holes in the walls, furniture broken.
Often he would have no memory of any of it. Would wake up genuinely puzzled and ask me what had happened. The worst was when he would start drinking again immediately when he got home from wherever and then be angry at me for calling 911, or leaving, or anything else that he considered "overreacting", which basically meant anything that drew attention to his drinking and out of control behavior.
I will presume to say that I understand, that I've been in your shoes. I used to wonder if it was really as bad as I thought it was. Now I know that it was worse.
So glad you're continuing to post here. Please keep it coming. You and your family are in my prayers.

amy55

Cherra,

I was in an abusive relationship. I'm also an RA. I think I want to talk about me here personally. There were times that my ex would come at me and I did actually pick up a screwdriver, just to keep him away from me. I know it's a different situation. I just want you to look at things from another POV.

Would I do it again to protect myself? You better believe I would. If I felt even more attacked do you not think that I would have tried to stab him with it?

Difference here is I was actually trying to protect myself.

But, the sameness here is, he is trying to do the same thing to protect himself, his drinking, and his thought that you are the enemy, and that everyone is against him and he is backed into a corner fighting for his life.

This may sound strange to you that your husband thought you are his "enemy". It's really not so strange though. I've been there, done that. My ex thought I was his "enemy" anytime I disagreed with him. He even told me so, and he told me that he will do anything or say anything to destroy the "enemy".

He now has something like a "kindling effect". He did it once, he will do it again, just like I would still pick up a screw driver to protect myself.

Did you also think about that gun going off in your house. What if your daughter bedroom was right above that room, and he fired straight up and killed her. What if he shot at the walls, and hit electrical wires, and the house burned down?

He isn't safe to be around. Then he also tells you that he will not stop drinking. Are you really going to be safe?

Do you have a Restraining Order?

I really do feel for you. Also, sometimes we need to separate the alcohol from a persons personality. Sometimes I really do feel that with or without the drink they will still be abusive.

((((((((((hugs))))))))))

aasharon90

I pray that you will take care of you and
you daughter doing whatever is needed
to do to be safe, healthy and happy in
your life.

With a sick member of the family, one
that has an addiction, in denial, threatening,
violence, guns, that is not a safe haven to
be in or around.

Addiction is real. It alive. It's an illness,
sickness, and can destroy anything and
everything in its path. It shows no mercy.

It is sad how addiction affects all in the
family. Things wont get better until the
sick member admits the problem and
gets the help needed to get him healthy
in all areas of his life.

A loaded gun and addiction is an
explosive combination that can
be fatal. Don't put urself in that
situation, nor ur daughters.

Get all the help you need so you
wont have to go thru this situation
alone or by urself.

ladyscribbler

Amy had a screwdriver. I had a knife. The last time my ex came at me, I jammed that knife in his neck with every intention of killing him. Lucky for him and me, he was blackout drunk. He staggered at the last minute and I missed anything vital, he just had a big cut on his neck and no memory of what happened.
That knife was the same one I carried in Iraq, to protect myself from rape while I was in camp. When I'm having a bad time I sleep with it under my pillow. Sometimes I miss the feel of it in my hand or my pocket. I want to put it in my purse just to go to the grocery store.
Violence has a long memory. However far removed you feel from it, that memory is always there, waiting to blow up into more violence.

amy55

cherra, I think what we are trying to say here is that to go back would be like entering a "war zone", where you will always have to be prepared, and it may be mortal combat.

He touched a gun, he picked it up, he fired it. Had no regard at all to human life. He will pick that gun up again, if not, just because gun is not around, he will find something else.

I hate to say this, but I left because I was more afraid for him then I was of being afraid of him. I no longer cared about my life. I wanted to die.

I was afraid that I would live, but in self defense that I would kill him, then have to serve another 25 years on top of the 25 years that I was already serving by being married to him.

Just remember he touched a gun, he picked it up, he shot the gun. He got a reaction from you, that was what he needed and wanted. He knows it scares you. He will do it again!!!!!

Live

Can you put on your stubborn suit and pull up the determination zipper and cut off the phone contact? Doing so will take you out of the front seat to the drama and his blaming & etc and allow you some peace to gain some clarity.
It gets easier and easier and you get the space to hear yourself think.
It's hard to see the forest for the trees when you are always busy putting out fires