Old 07-16-2014, 07:40 AM
  # 61 (permalink)  
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I am going to say that the benefit of one glass of wine per night is not going to offset the need to continually drink. A neuro who knows the extent of his drinking problem is not going to continue to say he should do that.

What stands out to me was how miserable your life must have been before the shooting up incident. Checking to see if he is alive, drinking all evening and on the weekends constantly. What sort of life is that for YOU???

Take the focus off of him. Put it on you, what you need and want out of a relationship with your husband. Your joy is your 20 year old, what would you tell her if this was HER relationship??

It's good you have hobbies. Don't isolate yourself, open up to those around you so you have a good support system. SR is a great thing, but all people need face to face support from people who love them.

If I am not mistaken, you said on the alcoholics forum your husband said he would "try" to stop drinking. Someone who wants to truly stop has to come to the realization they must abstain completely or it will never work. Please don't minimize what has happened just a very short time ago in your home.

Tight hugs.
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Old 07-16-2014, 08:25 AM
  # 62 (permalink)  
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hopeful is right, please take care of yourself. It sounds like you have some wonderful family around you that loves you and I'm sure wants nothing but the best for you.

Leave you husband in God's hands.
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Old 07-16-2014, 05:55 PM
  # 63 (permalink)  
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Cherra I read through your post on the Alcoholics forum. Couple of things - your husband has some signs of pretty deep alcoholism aside from his actions. Black out drinking and DT's indicate that.

You also mentioned that he has a history of stroke.

It would be in his best interest to medically detox. Some people need this - quitting drinking cold turkey can be dangerous for some people. A detox is not going to get him sober permanently, but it will be safe environment for him to come off the alcohol and possibly pain killers as well? Is he still actively medicating while drinking?

You mentioned the "I have only had one drink" line - um, I don't believe that. So common to say it should be flown as the official flag of the A.

I saw you got some differing opinion regarding being able to reach and maintain sobriety on your own. The one point I do not believe any recovered A would agree is that there is such a thing as moderation. One drink is too many and a thousand not enough. In this case and every one like it its all or nothing.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:40 AM
  # 64 (permalink)  
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Cherra, if I understand correctly your families' and your husband's lives have seen some drastic changes since that stroke happened?
Just wondering if you had a chance to tell his neurologist about the changes and your observations (increased alcohol intake, neck pain, changes in your husband's personality, temper outbursts, reported difficulties in memory when the gun incident happened).
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:06 AM
  # 65 (permalink)  
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The neck pain is physical. He's had one surgery and needs more. He began drinking more than the one glass of wine that the neurologist recommended when the pain meds quit working. He sees a pain management doctor. I've tried to get him to apply for disability but he says he can't afford it. I think I'm going to print off some information about alcoholism, quitting, etc. and leave at the house. At least he's not constantly telling me how this is all my fault anymore.
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Old 07-17-2014, 08:07 AM
  # 66 (permalink)  
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Cherra, I read this thread and the one on the Alcoholics forum.

I, too, was in a long term marriage (20 years) with an abusive alcoholic.

What I think is missing in the discussions so far is information about the biological/physiological changes that happen to an alcoholic, particularly one so deep into alcoholism that they have shakes, total blackouts and the like.

As people on the Alcoholics forum have suggested, it sounds like your husband is very far along in the physiological progression of alcoholism.

This changes the person's brain chemistry as well. They do not think the same way that they did before they became alcoholics. This is because their brains literally do not work the way did before. There are major neurological changes in their brains. There are a lot of good books on this, and I would imagine there are stickies in the alcoholic's forums that discuss this in some depth.

In a normal marriage, the wishes and hopes and dreams of each partner mean something to the other partner. There is a commitment to the marriage and to the well being of the other person.

Alcoholism, especially in its advanced state, takes away the alcoholic's capacity for relating to people like they used to. So when we tell our spouses/partners what we wish for, what we want our marriages to be like again, it may be a dear memory for them, but it doesn't mean that they are truly capable of re-creating that for us.

Yes, people do get better. They need enormous will power and commitment to do so. And only a doctor or other trained medical professional can assess the amount of damage done to the body and brain and what it will take to recover physically and mentally.

Our wishes and dreams are heart felt yet often too little to move our partner to recovery. That has to come from the depths of their own being.

And that leaves us with great grief, longing, and a feeling of helplessness. What we most cherished is gone, and if they don't commit to the profound changes that they must make, we can't do anything. The grief sneaks up on us, and makes us believe our wishful thinking, but the truth is that we are powerless, and the life we knew is gone.

For me, at 63, two years after leaving and one year after the divorce was final, I am building a new life in a new town with new friends. I still carry an undercurrent of grief, less and less, but it surfaces and I mourn the loss of the life I had early in my marriage, and still wish I could have. As time went by, I found that I focused less and less on my XAH's behavior and what I could do to wish/will him to be who I wanted/needed him to be. I began to discover who I am, recover the me I lost during those 20 years. And I am happier, more creative than I have ever been. There is hope for us, just in ways we can't necessarily imagine at the beginning.

We are with you here on SR.

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Old 07-18-2014, 12:16 AM
  # 67 (permalink)  
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Well. I don't post much anymore. I want to tell you that he can recover if he wants to but he isn't ready. Why? Because he has skirted responsibility over discharging a firearm inside a dwelling. He blames you for his drinking. He's self medicating with alcohol because his meds aren't working.

He's got issues that you will NEVER fix and as of right now, you have no marriage. He's married to his bottle be it wine, vodka or beer. That is his priority.

When he can look you in your face and say, I am an alcoholic. I have a problem. I need help. I'm going to counseling. I'm done killing myself. I'm so sorry for terrorizing you. I am and was so wrong. I'm going to change... and he does and you can see it, and he consistently shows it day in and day out, week after week, month after month then you will have something to work with to save your marriage. I believe you love him but right now, he is a shell of his former self.

I've heard all the excuses, the blame game, the bold face lies and the denial. Your husband is not ready to save your marriage and for that, I'm sorry for you. You can stand beside him. I won't fault you for that but don't hold your breath on his recovery with all his excuses, blame, finger pointing and refusal to seek outside help. He's deflecting and not ready to take responsibility for his actions and as long as he's in that mindset, he will never heal enough to recover himself let alone the marriage. It's so sad.

There is always hope though. As long as he's breathing, there is always a chance he could recover. Just pray to God. I did a lot of it. Believe me!
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:13 AM
  # 68 (permalink)  
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BoxinRotz has seen hell and back with her (R?)AH. If anyone knows about alcohol and neurological problems, she's it. Read and absorb what she's saying.

There's an analogy to help break this advanced progression of alcoholism into layman's terms. We are all born cucumbers. All different, but all with an equal potential as cucumbers. As we all know, cucumbers can be many things. One of those things is a pickle. Alcoholics are pickles. The alcohol soaks the brain and changes it, much the way a brine changes a cucumber into a pickle. If you know one thing about pickles, it's that you can never turn them back into cucumbers. An alcoholic in the advanced stages of addiction is a big kosher dill. Even with recovery, they're never going to be a cucumber again. The brain is so damaged that it won't fully recover. There's a chance he could sober up and he still wouldn't be someone you'd want to have dinner with.

Unfortunately, the only way to know just how much of the original cucumber remains is for him to choose to not add a single drop of alcohol to that pickled brain of his. And there's not a darn thing you can do to force him to do it.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:23 AM
  # 69 (permalink)  
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My husband is recovering.
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Old 07-18-2014, 01:48 AM
  # 70 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by BoxinRotz View Post
My husband is recovering.
I thought so. I definitely did not want to forget the R!
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:07 AM
  # 71 (permalink)  
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As a big kosher dill myself, I can tell you there is hope.
I recovered after drinking in increasing amounts over thirty plus years.

There were periods of no alcohol for weeks or months during that time, and my
drinking really didn't escalate until caring for my alcoholic chain-smoking drama queen
of a mother became almost crippling to my own life. That period lasted a good ten to fifteen years, and by the end I was drinking almost daily,
and had learned what a blackout was, has some tremors, etc. so I was the real deal alcoholic by the end.

Two things I want to share with you:
Moderation, in my view, is not possible for "real" alcoholics. Those of us who are pickled, as it were, have rewired our brains and don't respond to booze the way a normal person does,
and we cannot safely control or predict our intake of alcohol once it starts. I may have a single glass for weeks, but all of a sudden, I won't be able to stop until I finish the bottle.
I don't know when that is going to happen, and I cannot control it despite my best intentions and my honest plan to just have one.
So as long as your husband is thinking he can moderate, I don't think he will recover. Total non-drinking no matter what is what it takes for nearly all of us I suspect.

The second thing is my spouse or family could not and did not have control over my choice to drink. By the end I really wanted my drink more than my marriage, and I do love my husband.
It was the thing the drowned the pain and let me have an "off" switch dealing with the impossible, savage, and soul-destroying situation I had entered with my mother.
You husband doesn't have that external situation, but clearly he has internal problems he may have been carried for a lifetime.
Choosing to engage and process the pain is not an alcoholic's first choice ever, and only they can come to the realization that the must go through the pain to move forward.
Meanwhile, their actions are so self-centered and myopic they may destroy everyone around them and cause serious and permanent harm to their family.
My mother was similar to your husband I think in that she had undiagnosed mental issues, and was angry and hurt and lashing out and didn't know why,
but I caught the brunt of it most of my life. She never choose to stop drinking in her life until the last few months in the nursing home when she no longer had access to alcohol.

You can spend the rest of your life dealing with this imbalance or give him the space to find healing.
He must accept that he has an addiction, the underlying reasons for his addiction, and earnestly and without qualification seek help to deal with this. He doesn't
sound like a good candidate to "do it himself" as he has more than alcoholism to deal with.

Shooting a gun off inside the house was exactly what my mother did more than once, claiming to be suicidal but what it did was hold my brother and I as emotional hostages. Don't do that to yourself or your daughter.

There is always hope. I recovered from my alcoholism, but I admitted I had a problem, took full responsiblity, and got therapy and daily work a program of recovery.
Until he does that, and you see a solid block of time of real sobriety, keep out of the damage zone for your own mental health and that of your daughter.

Best to year and I pray for healing for your family.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:05 AM
  # 72 (permalink)  
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Thank you BoxinRotz for your comments. I am beginning to realize that the odds are against me but I am still hanging on to hope. I am going to see him this afternoon when he gets off work. Early enough that he won't have time to get deep into the bottle if indeed he is lying about the 1 glass of wine a day.

I have printed off material about alcoholism and the affects on the brain and body. I can't make him read it but I can leave it and pray that he does. Unfortunately there is not alot about the long term use of prescription pain killers and muscle relaxers combined with excessive alcohol. At least not what I've been able to find.

I realize that he may not be the person I married. I'm not the same person he married. I told him a couple of years ago that I wasn't afraid of him anymore. He asked what had he ever done to make me afraid and I told him that I used to be afraid of his temper, of the yelling, cursing, and throwing things but not any more. Well guess what - A am again afraid of his temper and he caused this. He may have even caused it on purpose but I don't think he got the results he thought he's get. I don't think he thought I'd be gone for nearly 4 weeks. I am not under any pressure to leave the guest house I am staying in and honestly, this has been such a peaceful 4 weeks.

As far as pickles go - As long as that pickle and I can have a peaceful, alcohol free home, I can live with a pickle!
Unfortunately, our daughter has a panic attack at the thought of seeing him. Her heart races if he sends her a text. If he cannot find a way to own the damage that he's done then even if he stops drinking our marriage is probably over. Time will tell.

Thank you again for EVERY comment.
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Old 07-18-2014, 11:49 AM
  # 73 (permalink)  
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I used to leave stuff around for my RABF to find as well. Alcoholic literature, I even left a great book I found. I can now see the problem with that. It just kept me caught up in the pattern of trying to help him, when he needed to help himself. It wasn't my job to educate him about his disease, it was his job to seek it out. Every AA group has all the literature you can think of on any related topic. Those rooms also include all the real experts on the disease...recovered A's themselves. Rehab programs can help set him up with resources in the community. Etc Etc Etc.

I know you're trying to help him, but give some thought to meeting him. I fear the message he gets is he is pulling you back in where he wants you. Any little bit of attention right now is exactly what he wants. The A will take the little steps....they are great manipulators and can play the game.

The bigger issue is your daughter, the innocent victim in all this. He needs to stop texting her and give her the space she needs right now to recover. IF he TRULY wants his family back, and wants RECOVERY (not sobriety) he will gladly give her the space she needs. He will put her needs ahead of his. His actions will tell you the truth.

Praying for you
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Old 07-18-2014, 05:44 PM
  # 74 (permalink)  
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Cherra I am posting a link that really helped me my first year off the alcohol. It really does become an all or nothing situation regarding using. Even if he were able to drink only one glass of wine a night he will not get better that way. Total abstinence is required for the brain to heal. Also when the person is in that situation their brain doesn't process information the way it should. It is really hard to read something and understand what it is saying. He very well may take any attempt to help him as an attack.
P.A.W.S. | What…Me Sober?
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Old 07-18-2014, 07:51 PM
  # 75 (permalink)  
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Have you considered Al-Anon for your daughter and for you?
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:02 PM
  # 76 (permalink)  
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I believe deep down that they know what they are doing but they've let alcohol and other drugs (whatever it may be) take front and center and become an extension to their daily lives and rituals.

I smoked. I smoked for over 20 years and I could never imagine waking up and not smoking but for 9 months now (today is 9 months ) I have been waking up and not smoking because I want to more than anyone wants me to not smoke. Point being, I want to be smoke free like my RAH wants to be alcohol free and your hubby will have to want the same.

I remember feeling so hopeless. I know I prayed for him everyday! I even prayed that if God were to take him, that He take him and stop the suffering! Such a horrible thing to pray for but when you get stuck in Alcohell, you pray for the hell just to STOP.

My husband has a lifetime of drugs and alcohol under his belt and 20 years of sobriety too, until he went back to a full fledge, raging, alcoholic who almost killed himself on a motorcycle last July 3rd and STILL! STILL drank after I brought him home from the trauma center, took care of him, had brain surgery, quit and went back to it and almost lost his job!

I've yet to figure out why alcohol appeals so much to him when it's so damn destructive to his life. He can not have one drink of ANYTHING or it starts all over and it's a long, drawn out battle before he comes to his senses again.
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Old 07-18-2014, 08:49 PM
  # 77 (permalink)  
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This gave me shivers! I am sorry that you and your daughter were in such danger. I can imagine that your daughter is going through some PTSD from this event. Maybe you should suggest some counseling in the mean time. I would not go back, and poke the bear just to see if it was a false alarm!!! May I also mention reading up on Stockholm Syndrome. Please listen to those on this forum. We care.
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Old 07-19-2014, 04:47 AM
  # 78 (permalink)  
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I too think on some level they do know what they are doing.

However, by the time the behavior gets dangerous and ridiculous like this most likely there have been years of dismissing and rationalizing bad behavior. That's how co-dependency works. We absolve accountability and fix the problem, they get used to it, the behavior gets worse. Then when you do what you have done which is make him accountable for his actions it just doesn't compute.

in other words we are part of the problem too.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:42 AM
  # 79 (permalink)  
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HOME is not a physical setting, it is a feeling of comfort and stability. Home is were the heart is.
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Old 07-19-2014, 05:49 AM
  # 80 (permalink)  
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I hope you are getting therapy for your daughter and keeping the focus on her. Shes the true victim in all of this.
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