Good Grief Pippi
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Pippi-
My question has little to do with the other person in your life.
When was the last time you felt this way?
I get your actions have not been more than a friendship, but your feelings as you write indicate more emotinally.
I was so unaware because of the feel good "high" that I missed a lot of red flags in my last relationship. I suspect it might be similar for you. The way you talk about this man, is it similar to the start of your relationship with your soon to be ex?
You have mentioned quite a bit recently how much you are juggling. Training, kids, getting a job, the upcoming divorce, living situation, finances etc. I get the appeal of some good feelings in all that hard stuff, but for me a situation like this would be a distraction and a way of numbing out....it would give me something else to focus on besides the hard stuff.
I guess my question really boils down to "Are you in a place healthy enough to see and get out of a bad situation again if it were to happen?"
The recidivism rate for people in relationships getting out of one relationship and into another relationship scare the snot out of me.....until I KNOW I can get myself out, and can consistantly show myself that in self-care, putting myself first, and taking care of me emotionally, physically, spiritually and financially I am very very afraid of those strong emotions. They got me into trouble on more than one occasion. That is what strikes me reading your post.
I admiring your willingness to put it out there....that to me shows a willingness to heal and look at yourself.
My question has little to do with the other person in your life.
When was the last time you felt this way?
I get your actions have not been more than a friendship, but your feelings as you write indicate more emotinally.
I was so unaware because of the feel good "high" that I missed a lot of red flags in my last relationship. I suspect it might be similar for you. The way you talk about this man, is it similar to the start of your relationship with your soon to be ex?
You have mentioned quite a bit recently how much you are juggling. Training, kids, getting a job, the upcoming divorce, living situation, finances etc. I get the appeal of some good feelings in all that hard stuff, but for me a situation like this would be a distraction and a way of numbing out....it would give me something else to focus on besides the hard stuff.
I guess my question really boils down to "Are you in a place healthy enough to see and get out of a bad situation again if it were to happen?"
The recidivism rate for people in relationships getting out of one relationship and into another relationship scare the snot out of me.....until I KNOW I can get myself out, and can consistantly show myself that in self-care, putting myself first, and taking care of me emotionally, physically, spiritually and financially I am very very afraid of those strong emotions. They got me into trouble on more than one occasion. That is what strikes me reading your post.
I admiring your willingness to put it out there....that to me shows a willingness to heal and look at yourself.
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Join Date: Jun 2014
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Hi Pippi,
I've been a lurker on here for a long time. As someone with a lot of experience with adultery (on both sides), I felt like I had to share. I also lived in Paris for 10 years and kind of understand the more lax French attitude about affairs.
I had an affair with a married French man that lasted about three years. It was purely a crazy sexual thing, and he assured me everything was "under control" with his wife. My marriage at that point was conpletely falling apart--my husband was also having affair. Anyway, my "amant" said his wife understood his need for passion because they were French, blah blah blah blah..It all seemed so romantic and progressive to me.
It turns out the wife thought we were just passionate friends. (I have no idea how someone can be that naive). When she found out we were more, she was devastated (despite being French) and decided to leave him. At that point, reality came crashing down HARD for both of us. He was shaken and suddenly became emotionally dependent upon me which was not what I thought I had signed on for. I was shaken because I did not want to break up someone's home. So I left him and told him to work things out with his wife.
It was too late for them. They never repaired their marriage even though I remained out of the picture forever. She is now living on one continent with one child, and he is on another with the other child. Every day I feel sick about the fact that I contributed to that mess in any way.
I am a relationship addict so I totally get the allure of the affair. There's really nothing more exciting to me. But it's about as healthy as doing a bunch of drugs, maybe even less so.
If you fall for this guy, there is no way you are going to come out of this unscathed. Either he won't leave his partner, which will leave you feeling like a worthless *****. Or he will leave his partner which will leave you feeling like a homewrecker. I've done the rationalization thing. I've done the thinking I can control the feelings thing. So I don't judge you. I just wish there were a way I could spare you the pain, and the loss of self esteem and self respect, that I experienced.
My other advice is don 't listen to your friends. My friends have egged me on many times telling me crap like "you aren't doing anything men haven't been doing for hundreds of years." Unless your friends have lived the consequences, they don't get it.
I've been a lurker on here for a long time. As someone with a lot of experience with adultery (on both sides), I felt like I had to share. I also lived in Paris for 10 years and kind of understand the more lax French attitude about affairs.
I had an affair with a married French man that lasted about three years. It was purely a crazy sexual thing, and he assured me everything was "under control" with his wife. My marriage at that point was conpletely falling apart--my husband was also having affair. Anyway, my "amant" said his wife understood his need for passion because they were French, blah blah blah blah..It all seemed so romantic and progressive to me.
It turns out the wife thought we were just passionate friends. (I have no idea how someone can be that naive). When she found out we were more, she was devastated (despite being French) and decided to leave him. At that point, reality came crashing down HARD for both of us. He was shaken and suddenly became emotionally dependent upon me which was not what I thought I had signed on for. I was shaken because I did not want to break up someone's home. So I left him and told him to work things out with his wife.
It was too late for them. They never repaired their marriage even though I remained out of the picture forever. She is now living on one continent with one child, and he is on another with the other child. Every day I feel sick about the fact that I contributed to that mess in any way.
I am a relationship addict so I totally get the allure of the affair. There's really nothing more exciting to me. But it's about as healthy as doing a bunch of drugs, maybe even less so.
If you fall for this guy, there is no way you are going to come out of this unscathed. Either he won't leave his partner, which will leave you feeling like a worthless *****. Or he will leave his partner which will leave you feeling like a homewrecker. I've done the rationalization thing. I've done the thinking I can control the feelings thing. So I don't judge you. I just wish there were a way I could spare you the pain, and the loss of self esteem and self respect, that I experienced.
My other advice is don 't listen to your friends. My friends have egged me on many times telling me crap like "you aren't doing anything men haven't been doing for hundreds of years." Unless your friends have lived the consequences, they don't get it.
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Join Date: May 2014
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Someone once said to me and I think Dr.Phil also said it. "If you wouldn't do it in front of your significant other, then what you're doing is wrong." If he wouldn't say or do the things he says or do with you in front of his wife....then yeah he is cheating on her. If you wouldn't do it in front of his wife and/or kids then yeah you are doing something you shouldn't be.
That is just my 2 cents. I hope you figure out what is best for you to do without breaking any of your values and morals that are important to you.
That is just my 2 cents. I hope you figure out what is best for you to do without breaking any of your values and morals that are important to you.
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Oh, I definitely want a distraction, ttgr! You really got it.
And, no, I did not feel this way about xah ever. I was never passionate about him. It was more he who was in love with me and I was always, always a bit ambivalent. I could never feel all that connected to xah. For my new friend, he seems more mature. He probably is, as I don't get the sense that he is an addict. So when have I last felt this way about someone? Never? It is so different now. It is 24 years since I was last dating. But it is nice to feel something for someone. I'm alive after all! Even - especially? - if I never see him again.
As to the rest of my life. Going back to the US next week for the children's visit with xah, and hopefully to finalize my divorce. So stressed about seeing xah and not wanting to cross the Atlantic one iota. Every time I go it feels like I am leaving this magical land and I might never be able to return.
The children are doing great. I am super happy with how we have recovered a sense of family and stability. It's been lovely.
I was offered a job for September. Waiting for one more possible job interview but will have to decide soon.
Position in community is excellent. I have never loved my circle of friends like I love my friends here.
The triathlon group is amazing. Since the half Ironman, the inner circle has embraced me like never before. i don't compete for them, I compete for myself. But I don't mind the extra respect from them. The women hardly show up any more, so a few times a week it is me and my Ironmen friends. Most are in committed relationships. I have gone out casually with a couple of the guys, but I am more than a little ambivalent about getting seriously involved with one of them. I love the place I have won in the group, and I don't want anything to change.
So mostly good news for Pippi. It doesn't always feel like things are good, cause the money and xah are fairly dire. But I did win my efforts in obtaining health care and unemployment benefits just recently.
Sometimes it is hard to notice progress because, in my case anyway, it has happened gradually. It is easier to notice the bad stuff or the new elements rather than the gradual progression of days lightening and grass turning green.
I am sorry if I have offended so many here. You have made me think about consequences, and that is a good thing. Sometimes some of you are projecting and make conjectures and assumptions that I find rather over the top, if you will. But many of you have contributed some great insights. You are one tough bunch, but I appreciate you all just the same.
And, no, I did not feel this way about xah ever. I was never passionate about him. It was more he who was in love with me and I was always, always a bit ambivalent. I could never feel all that connected to xah. For my new friend, he seems more mature. He probably is, as I don't get the sense that he is an addict. So when have I last felt this way about someone? Never? It is so different now. It is 24 years since I was last dating. But it is nice to feel something for someone. I'm alive after all! Even - especially? - if I never see him again.
As to the rest of my life. Going back to the US next week for the children's visit with xah, and hopefully to finalize my divorce. So stressed about seeing xah and not wanting to cross the Atlantic one iota. Every time I go it feels like I am leaving this magical land and I might never be able to return.
The children are doing great. I am super happy with how we have recovered a sense of family and stability. It's been lovely.
I was offered a job for September. Waiting for one more possible job interview but will have to decide soon.
Position in community is excellent. I have never loved my circle of friends like I love my friends here.
The triathlon group is amazing. Since the half Ironman, the inner circle has embraced me like never before. i don't compete for them, I compete for myself. But I don't mind the extra respect from them. The women hardly show up any more, so a few times a week it is me and my Ironmen friends. Most are in committed relationships. I have gone out casually with a couple of the guys, but I am more than a little ambivalent about getting seriously involved with one of them. I love the place I have won in the group, and I don't want anything to change.
So mostly good news for Pippi. It doesn't always feel like things are good, cause the money and xah are fairly dire. But I did win my efforts in obtaining health care and unemployment benefits just recently.
Sometimes it is hard to notice progress because, in my case anyway, it has happened gradually. It is easier to notice the bad stuff or the new elements rather than the gradual progression of days lightening and grass turning green.
I am sorry if I have offended so many here. You have made me think about consequences, and that is a good thing. Sometimes some of you are projecting and make conjectures and assumptions that I find rather over the top, if you will. But many of you have contributed some great insights. You are one tough bunch, but I appreciate you all just the same.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,780
Originally Posted by AnvilheadII 
if there are rules, shouldn't they apply all the time, to everyone in every situation?
Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng
Wendy,
What if his wife is a darling, sweet, intelligent woman who dearly tried to save her marriage and family, but her alcoholic husband was h3ll-bent towards blaming her for everything? And all those stories that you gladly listened to about his DUI and mean wife? They were rearrangements of truth to suit his purposes. And for some reason you appeared eager to listen to his drivel, pity him and wanted nothing more than to be the kind supportive lover of his dreams?
Why are women so willing to believe these nonsense tales about evil first wives?
Don't you realize he is probably saying similar nonsense about you being mean to his buddies and gals he meets around town now?
I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p. Some women are eager to hear his nonsense about me. It makes them feel superior I guess.
You know how his family and friends don't seem to care? I bet she cared. Why don't you go introduce yourself to her? I bet she'd have things to tell you that would cure you of him for good.
I am not a mean first wife, either. I have just lived dealing with an alcoholic longer and harder than you have.
JMPO.
What if his wife is a darling, sweet, intelligent woman who dearly tried to save her marriage and family, but her alcoholic husband was h3ll-bent towards blaming her for everything? And all those stories that you gladly listened to about his DUI and mean wife? They were rearrangements of truth to suit his purposes. And for some reason you appeared eager to listen to his drivel, pity him and wanted nothing more than to be the kind supportive lover of his dreams?
Why are women so willing to believe these nonsense tales about evil first wives?
Don't you realize he is probably saying similar nonsense about you being mean to his buddies and gals he meets around town now?
I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p. Some women are eager to hear his nonsense about me. It makes them feel superior I guess.
You know how his family and friends don't seem to care? I bet she cared. Why don't you go introduce yourself to her? I bet she'd have things to tell you that would cure you of him for good.
I am not a mean first wife, either. I have just lived dealing with an alcoholic longer and harder than you have.
JMPO.
You also said:
I personally do not mind when a person I am seeing has friendships and light flirtations with other women. I have always had men friends in my life and sometimes they make me laugh and I am attracted to them.
That's like saying, I didn't steal that candy bar I put in my pocket because I haven't actually left the store yet.
Beside that, it really doesn't matter what your expectations of YOUR relationships is here - it's not YOUR relationship being disrespected, right? What matters is what their agreement is and what HIS SO thinks about it all. How can you look past that so easily?
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Join Date: Oct 2012
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Firesprite, I think what you point out is fair.
I was not clear that my friend and I have dated, although you all are convincing me that that is what we've done. I exhange texts with other guys, I swim with them, we laugh and train together. Have I been dating them? There are two other guys in my life who I exchange regular texts with and train with. They both have girlfriends right now. One didn't when we started spending more time together. Now he has a girlfriend he appears to be crazy about, but he still maintains the relationship with me.
If If I was as sure as you all are what my new friends' motivations are I would have behaved differently, possibly.
I was not clear that my friend and I have dated, although you all are convincing me that that is what we've done. I exhange texts with other guys, I swim with them, we laugh and train together. Have I been dating them? There are two other guys in my life who I exchange regular texts with and train with. They both have girlfriends right now. One didn't when we started spending more time together. Now he has a girlfriend he appears to be crazy about, but he still maintains the relationship with me.
If If I was as sure as you all are what my new friends' motivations are I would have behaved differently, possibly.
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Join Date: May 2010
Location: USA
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Pipp....I text with men all the time. Some send me jokes, some tell me they will be late to the office. One tells me the weather if it's going to storm LOL. My friend's husband left me food in my fridge yesterday, he is a saint. The big differences are, I am also friends with their wives. While I may not text with the wives, we have at least a casual relationship and I KNOW there is no jealousy there. I make sure it is crystal clear on both ends what the relationship is and that it will never be more than friends, and they do the same. No emoational affair going on or having to worry that the wife will pick up and see they sent me a text b.c. wife already knows! These people are married and in good relationships and I would never do anything to cross a line.
I seriously doubt that his wife has any ideas that he is going and trying to hold your hand. There is crossing a line. It just is, and I think you know that. I agree with FS b/c her words are mostly your own words quoted from you.
I also think about my daughters. If I am doing something I would not want my daughter to do in the future, I don't do it. I am their role model.
Good luck to you Pippi. I hope your trip goes well and your X does not pull any crazy stunts.
I seriously doubt that his wife has any ideas that he is going and trying to hold your hand. There is crossing a line. It just is, and I think you know that. I agree with FS b/c her words are mostly your own words quoted from you.
I also think about my daughters. If I am doing something I would not want my daughter to do in the future, I don't do it. I am their role model.
Good luck to you Pippi. I hope your trip goes well and your X does not pull any crazy stunts.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: Florida
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Pippi - why don't you just ASK him before you get in any deeper?
I think the biggest factor is are their SO's aware that they are doing it? (texting/etc.) Are you saying/doing things that step on that relationship? Are you meeting them without their GF's knowledge?
An innocent office flirtation with a co-worker /teammate is one thing when it's in the course of the time that you naturally spend together during the activity (work/practice/whatever)... but once you start spending time together one-on-one away from that event that bonds you, it's not just an innocent flirt any longer. It's d.a.t.i.n.g.
One last thought - I think I remember you posting a bit ago about the women in your town giving you some attitude since you spend so much more time with the men & are involved with these kinds of sporty activities. (I think? If I am remembering wrong, disregard this...) In light of all that you've shared I would caution you that if you don't want to be judged as *that* kind of woman, don't *act* like that kind of woman, kwim?
Of course, JMHO & I have to give you credit for hangin' in here & listening without getting too reactive Pippi - this is a real Tough Love Thread.
I think the biggest factor is are their SO's aware that they are doing it? (texting/etc.) Are you saying/doing things that step on that relationship? Are you meeting them without their GF's knowledge?
An innocent office flirtation with a co-worker /teammate is one thing when it's in the course of the time that you naturally spend together during the activity (work/practice/whatever)... but once you start spending time together one-on-one away from that event that bonds you, it's not just an innocent flirt any longer. It's d.a.t.i.n.g.
One last thought - I think I remember you posting a bit ago about the women in your town giving you some attitude since you spend so much more time with the men & are involved with these kinds of sporty activities. (I think? If I am remembering wrong, disregard this...) In light of all that you've shared I would caution you that if you don't want to be judged as *that* kind of woman, don't *act* like that kind of woman, kwim?
Of course, JMHO & I have to give you credit for hangin' in here & listening without getting too reactive Pippi - this is a real Tough Love Thread.
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Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng
Sometimes it is hard to notice progress because, in my case anyway, it has happened gradually. It is easier to notice the bad stuff or the new elements rather than the gradual progression of days lightening and grass turning green.
All the news you shared is great.
I have found that feeling better has also been a slow process for me. It is much more gradual than the hard sinking feelings when I take a step back....and much less noticable.
I am glad you are going into whatever decision you make with more open eyes because of talking about it. Regardless of what you choose it will be a way to learn, hopefully to deepen your recovery, and definately to find out more about Pippi.
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Join Date: Apr 2012
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Hugs to you pippi, been there done that...won't do it again.
Wondering if you have thoughts on what this man can give you that you couldn't find from someone totally single. Is it possible that you don't think you deserve a man who can fully be present in a relationship? Don't know much about you so I could be off base.
But I can tell you that you deserve to be someone's #1, and should accept nothing less.
Wondering if you have thoughts on what this man can give you that you couldn't find from someone totally single. Is it possible that you don't think you deserve a man who can fully be present in a relationship? Don't know much about you so I could be off base.
But I can tell you that you deserve to be someone's #1, and should accept nothing less.
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Hi Pippi,
I'm sorry to read that your feelings and emotions have gotten so intertwined in such a complicated situation. I really do wish you and your children the very best.
I think since everyone has now been able to state their peace, some more than once, that it is time to close this thread.
I'm sorry to read that your feelings and emotions have gotten so intertwined in such a complicated situation. I really do wish you and your children the very best.
I think since everyone has now been able to state their peace, some more than once, that it is time to close this thread.
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