Do you comfront the behavior of the alcoholic
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Do you comfront the behavior of the alcoholic
When he calls and tries to pin things on me.... his behaviors on me, I am trying to figure out how to put the ball back in his court. Each time I go to him in a loving and caring manner, he retracts. Do I just ignore it? Do I tell him his real love is the bottle? Do I tell him the way the real way he makes me feel when he says really hurtful things. For him, it is now usually when he is sober... when he is drinking he is soft and gentle. It is his mind when he is sober that is so mean and hurtful. I go through many scenarios in my mind over and over, to let him know how this has been so mean to me.
I am really upset with his sister as well. She counsels people through AA. She keeps telling him, he isn't that bad... nowhere near what she had been. Why is nobody but me really concerned about this? Not his friends... not his family.... I just sit and wonder. I pray. I pray and pray. I know I can't change this. I just need to find the wisdom how to confront how he makes me feel when he says things. I think... I don't want to rock the boat... and my real fear isn't him leaving, it is thinking he will drink more. That is my real fear.
I am really upset with his sister as well. She counsels people through AA. She keeps telling him, he isn't that bad... nowhere near what she had been. Why is nobody but me really concerned about this? Not his friends... not his family.... I just sit and wonder. I pray. I pray and pray. I know I can't change this. I just need to find the wisdom how to confront how he makes me feel when he says things. I think... I don't want to rock the boat... and my real fear isn't him leaving, it is thinking he will drink more. That is my real fear.
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My words never made one bit of difference to my alcoholic, it was a waste of my energy and oxygen and time trying to come up with the perfect combination of words delivered in the perfect way that would make him see the light. I think lots of us here have tried that and failed.
As for him drinking more, alcoholism is progressive. He will drink more, no matter what you or anyone else does or says. I used to do this too, make it personal, like he was doing and saying things and drinking just to hurt me. But it's not personal. It's alcoholism.
You can't control him or his sister or anyone else in this equation except for you.
As for him drinking more, alcoholism is progressive. He will drink more, no matter what you or anyone else does or says. I used to do this too, make it personal, like he was doing and saying things and drinking just to hurt me. But it's not personal. It's alcoholism.
You can't control him or his sister or anyone else in this equation except for you.
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I know that nobody can control him. I understand that part, what I don't understand is how they can act like it is no big deal. That is what is hard for my little brain to comprehend. How is this no big deal? I appreciate all the words of wisdom here. I truly do.
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Originally Posted by WendyOR 
I know that nobody can control him. I understand that part, what I don't understand is how they can act like it is no big deal. That is what is hard for my little brain to comprehend. How is this no big deal? I appreciate all the words of wisdom here. I truly do.
Like I said above, not a bit of this is personal. Also second the suggestion to hit an Alanon meeting. That has been a great resource for me in detaching from his behavior and not getting hung up with what's going on in his head. Alcoholism is self destruction, it is irrational. Trying to find logic in something irrational will only drive you crazy.
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By "they" I think you mean his family and AA friends?
I think most family members are going to naturally downplay the severity. Whether it's denial or just that they still see him as the happy go lucky "before" guy.
If his actions toward you are offensive to you, you don't need anyone to validate that. While it would be nice to have someone share your feelings about it, they may never do so and you have to make decisions for yourself based on what you are willing to tolerate in a boyfriend. Make some healthy boundaries and stick to them for your own happiness, such as you won't be around him when he is drinking.
I think most family members are going to naturally downplay the severity. Whether it's denial or just that they still see him as the happy go lucky "before" guy.
If his actions toward you are offensive to you, you don't need anyone to validate that. While it would be nice to have someone share your feelings about it, they may never do so and you have to make decisions for yourself based on what you are willing to tolerate in a boyfriend. Make some healthy boundaries and stick to them for your own happiness, such as you won't be around him when he is drinking.
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Re his sister, if she is working an AA program, then she has admitted she is powerless over alcohol (which includes her brother's alcoholism) and works to accept the things she cannot change. She wants to have a relationship with her brother and she understands that she must accept him as he is now, an active alcoholic who has no desire for recovery. Even if she told him he was the worst alcoholic she'd ever met, that would likely not make any difference to him. Also have you actually heard her say this stuff about not being as bad as others? Or is it coming from him? My ex used to love to justify himself by pointing to other alcoholics who were, in his opinion, way worse than he was. So and so went to jail, got a DUI, etc.
Either way, your feelings are valid, even if no one else agrees. I know part of my disease is always wanting to be right,and to have others validate that. In my own recovery through Alanon I am learning to let go of that behavior and to live in a way that is healthy.
Either way, your feelings are valid, even if no one else agrees. I know part of my disease is always wanting to be right,and to have others validate that. In my own recovery through Alanon I am learning to let go of that behavior and to live in a way that is healthy.
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In your other post, you said:
I think the thing that took me a long time to reconcile -- in my heart and mind -- is that the man and his behavior are one. We show who we are in our actions. There's no "he acts like an arse but he really is a good man.
Actions = reality.
You say he's blaming you. That's pretty typical addict behavior. Here's how I understand it works (from how a sober A explained it): You tell them they drink too much. They feel guilty because they somewhere know you're right. But if they admit that, it also means they would have to give up drinking. They don't want to do that. But they have to do something with the guilt. So they turn it into anger and tell you that it's not their problem, that it's yours. If you were only skinnier/younger/prettier/richer/funnier/smarter/better in bed/a better cook/a better mother/a better wife then they wouldn't have to drink.
It isn't true, of course, and they may or may not believe their own words -- but it serves the purpose; it takes the focus off of their faults and puts it on yours. If you're hurt and feel betrayed and stabbed in the back -- whew, that's GREAT, because then you're too busy hurting to point fingers to him.
They act like it's no big deal because if they let themselves know what a big deal it is, they'd have to admit guilt and responsibility, and change. And the last thing an addict wants is change. Change means removing the substance of choice. And that's scarier than anything to an addict.
I love this man with all my heart. I don't like the behavior lately. I don't like how I have been treated lately... I don't like him trying to put the blame on me.
Actions = reality.
You say he's blaming you. That's pretty typical addict behavior. Here's how I understand it works (from how a sober A explained it): You tell them they drink too much. They feel guilty because they somewhere know you're right. But if they admit that, it also means they would have to give up drinking. They don't want to do that. But they have to do something with the guilt. So they turn it into anger and tell you that it's not their problem, that it's yours. If you were only skinnier/younger/prettier/richer/funnier/smarter/better in bed/a better cook/a better mother/a better wife then they wouldn't have to drink.
It isn't true, of course, and they may or may not believe their own words -- but it serves the purpose; it takes the focus off of their faults and puts it on yours. If you're hurt and feel betrayed and stabbed in the back -- whew, that's GREAT, because then you're too busy hurting to point fingers to him.
They act like it's no big deal because if they let themselves know what a big deal it is, they'd have to admit guilt and responsibility, and change. And the last thing an addict wants is change. Change means removing the substance of choice. And that's scarier than anything to an addict.
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He is saying I should have never contacted him in the first place. He says he was in a really bad place at the time and I should not have contacted him. He had posted on facebook that a note about people you trust the most are the people that hurt you the most. It was written so well. I could tell that he was hurting and I said a prayer for him, and I reached out to him. We started communicating, and I listened about his shame over the DUI etc. and then about his marriage... how he never felt validated. How he never was appreciated... how she was a narcissist, everything was about her, etc.... We started talking about life and our kids.... and again, that was two and a half years ago. Now he is telling me I should not have contacted him that he has become codependent upon me... I feel he is codependent on alcohol.
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Originally Posted by WendyOR
He is saying I should have never contacted him in the first place. He says he was in a really bad place at the time and I should not have contacted him. He had posted on facebook that a note about people you trust the most are the people that hurt you the most. It was written so well. I could tell that he was hurting and I said a prayer for him, and I reached out to him. We started communicating, and I listened about his shame over the DUI etc. and then about his marriage... how he never felt validated. How he never was appreciated... how she was a narcissist, everything was about her, etc.... We started talking about life and our kids.... and again, that was two and a half years ago. Now he is telling me I should not have contacted him that he has become codependent upon me... I feel he is codependent on alcohol.
You have choices here. You can keep getting sucked in to his never ending drama cycle or you can go no contact and start helping yourself.
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Wendy,
What if his wife is a darling, sweet, intelligent woman who dearly tried to save her marriage and family, but her alcoholic husband was h3ll-bent towards blaming her for everything? And all those stories that you gladly listened to about his DUI and mean wife? They were rearrangements of truth to suit his purposes. And for some reason you appeared eager to listen to his drivel, pity him and wanted nothing more than to be the kind supportive lover of his dreams?
Why are women so willing to believe these nonsense tales about evil first wives?
Don't you realize he is probably saying similar nonsense about you being mean to his buddies and gals he meets around town now?
I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p. Some women are eager to hear his nonsense about me. It makes them feel superior I guess.
You know how his family and friends don't seem to care? I bet she cared. Why don't you go introduce yourself to her? I bet she'd have things to tell you that would cure you of him for good.
I am not a mean first wife, either. I have just lived dealing with an alcoholic longer and harder than you have.
JMPO.
What if his wife is a darling, sweet, intelligent woman who dearly tried to save her marriage and family, but her alcoholic husband was h3ll-bent towards blaming her for everything? And all those stories that you gladly listened to about his DUI and mean wife? They were rearrangements of truth to suit his purposes. And for some reason you appeared eager to listen to his drivel, pity him and wanted nothing more than to be the kind supportive lover of his dreams?
Why are women so willing to believe these nonsense tales about evil first wives?
Don't you realize he is probably saying similar nonsense about you being mean to his buddies and gals he meets around town now?
I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p. Some women are eager to hear his nonsense about me. It makes them feel superior I guess.
You know how his family and friends don't seem to care? I bet she cared. Why don't you go introduce yourself to her? I bet she'd have things to tell you that would cure you of him for good.
I am not a mean first wife, either. I have just lived dealing with an alcoholic longer and harder than you have.
JMPO.
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He doesn't have AA friends. Recently in a conversation, one of his ex wifes best friends ended up with a DUI... the second in a couple of years..... so he replies in the conversation... AND I AM THE BIG ALCOHOLIC? It was so odd to hear these words come out of his mouth. Like there can't be two alcoholics. Then he said... I am just waiting for ex wife to get one... she will be getting one.
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I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p.
In addition, I am the first wife of an alcoholic who told me all those stories about his former girlfriends. How evil they were. How they didn't understand him. Etc. I am definitely one of the women who fell for a man because I felt sorry for him and I wanted to show him that he was worth loving and that I was able to love him and that they, all those other women, they were just... wrong...
And after me, he went on to tell his sob story about how horrid I was to a row of new girlfriends. Who wanted to show him that he was worth loving, etc.
I know it's easy when you're a caring, loving individual to want to do that. When you hate seeing people hurting. There's nothing wrong with that. It only gets unhealthy when you're compromising with who you are as a person in order to stay in a relationship with a person who is hurting.
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This made me cry.... I have never felt superior to her. In fact I told him, I don't want to hate her, as that is your son's mom. I want to be a good person. If anything I am so lucky to have you and I don't want to hate her. I just trusted him. I trusted his words. I trusted him with everything I had. I thought she had hurt him so badly.... yet, I never hated her. I hated some of the things she had done to him.... from what he told me of course. But hate her. No. I am a person that loves people and knows everyone has a story. It is really sad actually. I am afraid to contact her. I am afraid she will not take well to it. I am scared.
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Here's the deal: You are different people. He is he. You are you. He can't tell you who you can and can't contact or associate with.
That said -- you can pretty much bet that he has told his family and friends (including people you are both friends with) his story. What I did after I left AXH was just wait. I didn't contact anyone; I waited to see who contacted me.
Some friends contacted me and told me I needed to get my rear in gear and get back together with AXH because he was an amazing person and I must just be having some midlife crisis or something. Those, I never responded to.
Other friends contacted me and said "He told me this story that I knew couldn't be true, so I wanted to hear your side of things. How are you doing?" Those were friends I knew I could trust.
That said -- you can pretty much bet that he has told his family and friends (including people you are both friends with) his story. What I did after I left AXH was just wait. I didn't contact anyone; I waited to see who contacted me.
Some friends contacted me and told me I needed to get my rear in gear and get back together with AXH because he was an amazing person and I must just be having some midlife crisis or something. Those, I never responded to.
Other friends contacted me and said "He told me this story that I knew couldn't be true, so I wanted to hear your side of things. How are you doing?" Those were friends I knew I could trust.
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Originally Posted by PippiLngstockng
Wendy,
What if his wife is a darling, sweet, intelligent woman who dearly tried to save her marriage and family, but her alcoholic husband was h3ll-bent towards blaming her for everything? And all those stories that you gladly listened to about his DUI and mean wife? They were rearrangements of truth to suit his purposes. And for some reason you appeared eager to listen to his drivel, pity him and wanted nothing more than to be the kind supportive lover of his dreams?
Why are women so willing to believe these nonsense tales about evil first wives?
Don't you realize he is probably saying similar nonsense about you being mean to his buddies and gals he meets around town now?
I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p. Some women are eager to hear his nonsense about me. It makes them feel superior I guess.
You know how his family and friends don't seem to care? I bet she cared. Why don't you go introduce yourself to her? I bet she'd have things to tell you that would cure you of him for good.
I am not a mean first wife, either. I have just lived dealing with an alcoholic longer and harder than you have.
JMPO.
What if his wife is a darling, sweet, intelligent woman who dearly tried to save her marriage and family, but her alcoholic husband was h3ll-bent towards blaming her for everything? And all those stories that you gladly listened to about his DUI and mean wife? They were rearrangements of truth to suit his purposes. And for some reason you appeared eager to listen to his drivel, pity him and wanted nothing more than to be the kind supportive lover of his dreams?
Why are women so willing to believe these nonsense tales about evil first wives?
Don't you realize he is probably saying similar nonsense about you being mean to his buddies and gals he meets around town now?
I am a first wife of an alcoholic who tells everyone lies about me. People hate me believing his cr3p. Some women are eager to hear his nonsense about me. It makes them feel superior I guess.
You know how his family and friends don't seem to care? I bet she cared. Why don't you go introduce yourself to her? I bet she'd have things to tell you that would cure you of him for good.
I am not a mean first wife, either. I have just lived dealing with an alcoholic longer and harder than you have.
JMPO.
I am super positive this is much closer to reality. Well said.
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Originally Posted by WendyOR
He doesn't have AA friends. Recently in a conversation, one of his ex wifes best friends ended up with a DUI... the second in a couple of years..... so he replies in the conversation... AND I AM THE BIG ALCOHOLIC? It was so odd to hear these words come out of his mouth. Like there can't be two alcoholics. Then he said... I am just waiting for ex wife to get one... she will be getting one.
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