dunno
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Originally Posted by Murchovski 
You raise some good points Hammer.
As for the mega males sounding off to impress, I find some of the ladies speak so low I may as well not be there. Maybe it's the acoustics.
I really see AA as a huge melting pot for troubled souls.
Twenty years ago, my first involvement, I just didn't get it
This year's return I hopefully have managed enough humbleness to just move along positively, without getting enmeshed in the obvious down side inherent in some human interaction.
As for the mega males sounding off to impress, I find some of the ladies speak so low I may as well not be there. Maybe it's the acoustics.
I really see AA as a huge melting pot for troubled souls.
Twenty years ago, my first involvement, I just didn't get it
This year's return I hopefully have managed enough humbleness to just move along positively, without getting enmeshed in the obvious down side inherent in some human interaction.
As far as listening to the ladies . . . Sometimes -- male pattern deafness can be a blessing.
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Originally Posted by Wavy
Interestingly what struck me from your story was that you tried to be something you weren't, to 'fit in' with your adopted AA pose and your corporate persona, but in the end you couldn't deny who you are and what you are feeling. And to me that's a good thing. You are uniquely you and experiencing your own unique life and, since you are a man of God, you are exactly as God intended you, perfect in his eyes despite what you struggle with. The people listening at AA will benefit from seeing the genuine you, just as much as you will benefit from expressing the genuine you. I'm glad you found inspiration from your friend, that is a gift indeed.
Guess I am coming to (very slow, huh?) awareness of that if I do not like me . . . I should change me, rather than trying to look/act like something different.
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Originally Posted by BlueSkies1
It was a great post...and then it wasn't.
I get it. I'm a member of the good looking club, but...we can't project desire on the part of others that haven't even spoken to us as in wanting us.
It's just wrong.
And if you're that good looking, you know it's a blessing as well as a curse.
I get it. I'm a member of the good looking club, but...we can't project desire on the part of others that haven't even spoken to us as in wanting us.
It's just wrong.
And if you're that good looking, you know it's a blessing as well as a curse.
Now it is probably more like Bill Gates.
I really admire YOUR desire to work on your program.
If you work on that desire, instead of perceiving others desires, I wonder what you would have seen in the audience?
Maybe those that were truly listening to your pain. Maybe those that watched with amazement as you transformed from board room winner to ordinary broken man...
Hammer, I really feel for you. Not in THAT way.
If you work on that desire, instead of perceiving others desires, I wonder what you would have seen in the audience?
Maybe those that were truly listening to your pain. Maybe those that watched with amazement as you transformed from board room winner to ordinary broken man...
Hammer, I really feel for you. Not in THAT way.
Step Eleven: Sought thru prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.
I too desire the good coffee, the confectionary chocolate delights... and I have also desired to run screaming to the AA meeting just one room down the hall "Take Me!" because there was laughter in that room, there was liveliness, there was a desire for the finer things in life while the al-anon room seemed bleak, unadorned, lonely, and not just sober, but somber.
I still haven't worked that out.
I still haven't worked that out.
(we are good friends). But then during the closing prayer, here is comes again -- all of AA is laughing -- and we pause the prayer and wait.
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I is an intriguing post you have written there about the enemy territory. A great post amusing and thoughtful.
I was thinking about your observation that AA members and Alanon members have very different expression. I have never been to a AA or a Alanon meeting, and I am here to stay sober, but I do come from a home with drinking, so I have experienced booth sides, to love someone with an addiction and have one of my own.
This is very different experiences.
You could say that addictions are very hard on the addicts body, but it is not a emotional hard experience. Sure you get depressions and anxiety but you are in reality following the flow of your emotions. And alcohol numbs everything, so it is limited how much emotional pain is involved. You could say that addicts are moody and unpredictable. But you are still just following the flow it does not feel unpredictable to you.
It is a very different experience to love an addict, in reality not that hard on the body your liver will be fine. If you are very dependent on them or a kind of person that believes that you can fix things with appropriate effort. The unpredictability will be a very hard emotional experience. There will be endless soul searching of what you can do to control something that you can not control or predict. Thinking back, sensing where this is heading and the feeling of not knowing.
Even if we addicts can be worried whether we will have a relapse, we are holding the tricker we could be worried when we struggle but we know when and we know when it is going well and we can relax.
Those that love them can worry all the time, often being disappointed numerous time they have a reason to.
It is not a surprise to me that it is emotional harder to go into a Alanon meeting than a AA meeting.
I was thinking about your observation that AA members and Alanon members have very different expression. I have never been to a AA or a Alanon meeting, and I am here to stay sober, but I do come from a home with drinking, so I have experienced booth sides, to love someone with an addiction and have one of my own.
This is very different experiences.
You could say that addictions are very hard on the addicts body, but it is not a emotional hard experience. Sure you get depressions and anxiety but you are in reality following the flow of your emotions. And alcohol numbs everything, so it is limited how much emotional pain is involved. You could say that addicts are moody and unpredictable. But you are still just following the flow it does not feel unpredictable to you.
It is a very different experience to love an addict, in reality not that hard on the body your liver will be fine. If you are very dependent on them or a kind of person that believes that you can fix things with appropriate effort. The unpredictability will be a very hard emotional experience. There will be endless soul searching of what you can do to control something that you can not control or predict. Thinking back, sensing where this is heading and the feeling of not knowing.
Even if we addicts can be worried whether we will have a relapse, we are holding the tricker we could be worried when we struggle but we know when and we know when it is going well and we can relax.
Those that love them can worry all the time, often being disappointed numerous time they have a reason to.
It is not a surprise to me that it is emotional harder to go into a Alanon meeting than a AA meeting.
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soberhawk...ditto on what dandylion said. Don't think I didn't look for an escape from my feelings; denial worked for awhile; the intensity of being involved in someone else's drama I guess is a fix; a hit; but like booze it causes damage in the form of stress illnesses. A disclaimer here ( for me personally) I can not handle Al-Anon meetings. I don't leave wiser; just depressed. I can't handle the "no cross talk" rule and I have difficulty with prayers/god/spiritual stuff. I have been to many meetings and it's just was not working for me. So I am so happy I found this forum. My EX-AB said that his first 6 months in AA he felt like a minor celebrity. He got constant attention and was constantly congratulated for being sober. What a difference after getting chronic sadness and disapproval from me; in AA he was a minor hero. After he got his year chip he said things were not so fun anymore; he was old news.
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Thanks. I am glad it was not fully off topic.
There are some grammatic and spelling errors there, well I can always say that English is not my first language.
It is of course not a competition in what is harder, but it is very different experiences.
I have two sons event though I do not get drunk in front of them, I do know my abuse has hurt them. I was not present, it just affects the mood of the home it affects how I functioned. They can see within seconds whether there is a dark cloud hovering over their father and leave him alone.
I have read some posts in this section. I think we see a relationship to people we love as equal relationship when it comes to addicts it is important to see it is not.
There are some grammatic and spelling errors there, well I can always say that English is not my first language.
It is of course not a competition in what is harder, but it is very different experiences.
I have two sons event though I do not get drunk in front of them, I do know my abuse has hurt them. I was not present, it just affects the mood of the home it affects how I functioned. They can see within seconds whether there is a dark cloud hovering over their father and leave him alone.
I have read some posts in this section. I think we see a relationship to people we love as equal relationship when it comes to addicts it is important to see it is not.
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Originally Posted by soberhawk
I is an intriguing post you have written there about the enemy territory. A great post amusing and thoughtful.
We see the world as WE are; not as IT IS..
In other words, while I may see them as enemy, that is my projection. Not any truth.
But the Vampire Women do scare me. Because I am like a silly paralyzed bitch or something once one locks on to me.
It is not a surprise to me that it is emotional harder to go into a Alanon meeting than a AA meeting.
Like the above . .. . This is all about me. (me, me, me)
Generally for me, an AA meeting is like going to the hospital to VISIT a patient. Not like going to the hospital to BE a patient.
Alanon, on the other hand is about ME being the crazy patient. And ME do not want to be that.
Still cannot make it to a Men Only Meeting for Alanon. I can deal with the wimmen folks being there, like in a regular Alanon meeting. Or the mix with typical older, or gay or whatever guys. I just really, really, really do not want to look across the table and see one of ME sitting there.
But what I did Friday was go to the place where they have the Men Only meeting (on Thursday) for a regular meeting. Major, major, major step. So I could recon the place. Recon see? Back in the enemy/battle thinking.
Starting to get a clearer view of all this. I have met the enemy and it is me.
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Originally Posted by soberhawk
Thanks. I am glad it was not fully off topic.
There are some grammatic and spelling errors there, well I can always say that English is not my first language.
There are some grammatic and spelling errors there, well I can always say that English is not my first language.
It is of course not a competition in what is harder, but it is very different experiences.
I have two sons event though I do not get drunk in front of them, I do know my abuse has hurt them. I was not present, it just affects the mood of the home it affects how I functioned. They can see within seconds whether there is a dark cloud hovering over their father and leave him alone.
For you (and her) much can be done to improve that with honesty and repentance. Mrs. Hammer seems far from those at this point. However you do not seem so far. Go seek God, and His guidance on how to restore your relationship with your sons. He will not turn a deaf ear.
I have read some posts in this section. I think we see a relationship to people we love as equal relationship when it comes to addicts it is important to see it is not.
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Thanks Hammer.
I am not going the AA way. I remember a foreign comedian making fun of our national character and said that you were moving into less dangerous territory here by talking about your sex life at dinners parties than mentioning the word God. I think he to some extent was right, at least in parts of the country. Even though I am raised Christian and consider me to be so, AA would be pushing my theological buttons and what I have been taught so hard it would just not be a good idea for me.
Forgiveness understood as seeing a persons failures and at the same time seeing beyond that, my sons have always given me that. There is nothing to restore and nothing I am to receive more from them.
It is in reality simple stop drinking and be a better person.
I do understand you reluctance do meet your own failures across the table, you do though sound to have a lot of humor you will be fine.
I am not going the AA way. I remember a foreign comedian making fun of our national character and said that you were moving into less dangerous territory here by talking about your sex life at dinners parties than mentioning the word God. I think he to some extent was right, at least in parts of the country. Even though I am raised Christian and consider me to be so, AA would be pushing my theological buttons and what I have been taught so hard it would just not be a good idea for me.
Forgiveness understood as seeing a persons failures and at the same time seeing beyond that, my sons have always given me that. There is nothing to restore and nothing I am to receive more from them.
It is in reality simple stop drinking and be a better person.
I do understand you reluctance do meet your own failures across the table, you do though sound to have a lot of humor you will be fine.
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The walls came down and basically we all learned we just wanted to be accepted, loved and to have inner peace.
Acceptance, love and inner peace, yes, I am trying to live it.
Hammer,
I appreciate that you let yourself become less than Superman in the meeting.
and that you look at MethBeth and see how it CAN work.
Plus, my name is Beth.
Beth
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Originally Posted by wicked
Hammer,
I appreciate that you let yourself become less than Superman in the meeting.
and that you look at MethBeth and see how it CAN work.
Plus, my name is Beth.
Beth
I keep my Beths straight.
So you staying warm up in Michigan?
Summer is about done and over isn't it?
I hear the icebergs are floating down past Mackinaw Island.
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Thank you for that!
Michigan is a lovely place to be during the summer.
But, the summer is very short here.
I have not seen any leaves change color yet.
I look forward to that.
Summer is about done and over isn't it?
But, the summer is very short here.
I have not seen any leaves change color yet.
I look forward to that.
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Figured I would keep my crazy stuff on my own thread, here.
So I chaired a meeting last week -- my sponsor was out, and he was supposed to chair, so I was promoted to the task.
Tried to cover a topic I see a LOT of you ask about. The Big Happy Ending you/we/I always seem to ask about and want.
I guess I have told you all my sponsor was married for 56 years, knew his Mrs. for 60 years, and they were AA (her) and Alanon (him) for 34 years. She died this last year, but he is my sponsor because I want what he had.
So at any rate, this particular group is a High Mileage Long Timer group with some SERIOUSLY good "angels" in it for me. Other folks have 30+ years, a couple of the women have outlived their A's (who were also regular work-the-program A(s)). But to answer the common question of those who make it . . . . that seems to be the "trick." They both take their program quite seriously, and work it.
I picked the theme for story night as "How Do Long Time Couples Make It?" Went around the room and THAT was the common theme. They Work Their Program, and You Work Yours.
Even one lady who divorced her A husband. Turns out now they are good friends and they do stuff together. Some 20+ years sober. But Both are working their own program.
Finally the last guy in the room. A Plumber. I like him, but he is a Plumber. I am an Electrical Guy. I came up in the trades, and now an Engineer in the same. In practice . . . on job sites . . . The Plumbers and Electricians tend to stick forks in each other. Just established pissing roles.
So went it came to him last, he said, that was all pretty good stories, but he was thinking about something else.
He knows I have not been doing my step work.
He got to square on me and unload. So funny. Started talking about some guy that told him a story about "How to make it, in a 12 Step Program." Said the guy had told him . . .
"I would think that if I were in a Step Based Program, like this one . . . I would be pretty stupid for Not Working those Steps. I am just speaking about what some guy told me but -- Would not you think someone NOT working the steps was Pretty Stupid?"
Shocked the hell out of me, but I could not but help laugh and love him for that.
Even as arrogant as I am -- I LOVE Correction.
So that is what Hammer is now doing. Not worrying or concerning so much about Mrs. Hammer. Hammer is going to be working HIS Steps and Getting MY Side in VERY GOOD Order.
Otherwise -- I have to agree with the Plumber -- I would be Pretty Stupid.
90 days.
So I chaired a meeting last week -- my sponsor was out, and he was supposed to chair, so I was promoted to the task.
Tried to cover a topic I see a LOT of you ask about. The Big Happy Ending you/we/I always seem to ask about and want.
I guess I have told you all my sponsor was married for 56 years, knew his Mrs. for 60 years, and they were AA (her) and Alanon (him) for 34 years. She died this last year, but he is my sponsor because I want what he had.
So at any rate, this particular group is a High Mileage Long Timer group with some SERIOUSLY good "angels" in it for me. Other folks have 30+ years, a couple of the women have outlived their A's (who were also regular work-the-program A(s)). But to answer the common question of those who make it . . . . that seems to be the "trick." They both take their program quite seriously, and work it.
I picked the theme for story night as "How Do Long Time Couples Make It?" Went around the room and THAT was the common theme. They Work Their Program, and You Work Yours.
Even one lady who divorced her A husband. Turns out now they are good friends and they do stuff together. Some 20+ years sober. But Both are working their own program.
Finally the last guy in the room. A Plumber. I like him, but he is a Plumber. I am an Electrical Guy. I came up in the trades, and now an Engineer in the same. In practice . . . on job sites . . . The Plumbers and Electricians tend to stick forks in each other. Just established pissing roles.
So went it came to him last, he said, that was all pretty good stories, but he was thinking about something else.
He knows I have not been doing my step work.
He got to square on me and unload. So funny. Started talking about some guy that told him a story about "How to make it, in a 12 Step Program." Said the guy had told him . . .
"I would think that if I were in a Step Based Program, like this one . . . I would be pretty stupid for Not Working those Steps. I am just speaking about what some guy told me but -- Would not you think someone NOT working the steps was Pretty Stupid?"
Shocked the hell out of me, but I could not but help laugh and love him for that.
Even as arrogant as I am -- I LOVE Correction.
So that is what Hammer is now doing. Not worrying or concerning so much about Mrs. Hammer. Hammer is going to be working HIS Steps and Getting MY Side in VERY GOOD Order.
Otherwise -- I have to agree with the Plumber -- I would be Pretty Stupid.
90 days.
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Storms came through yesterday afternoon. The drought is breaking.
Power went out and things shut down. Gave me some time to pause and think.
Same last night at my best meeting. At least for me. Power down and time to think.
I have been being an ass the last nine months, watching to see if Mrs. Hammer will get better, be okay, and being not happy with what I am not seeing.
I have to own that. This is all about me, Me, ME.
Mind rolls back to my first day in my first Alanon meeting -- The Grand Dame told me: [Hammer], [Mrs. Hammer] is not your problem.
She was and still is correct.
The damn plumber is correct, too. I would have to be -- correction, make that: HAVE BEEN -- Pretty Stupid.
Next Wednesday.
Meeting Time.
Signed up and I am chairing.
Topic Night.
Already Announced "MY" Topic: Working the Steps.
Anyone have any questions or suggestions, add them on here.
Just counted. 87 Days. Note to me -- Hammer, You Gotta Alotta Work To Do.
Power went out and things shut down. Gave me some time to pause and think.
Same last night at my best meeting. At least for me. Power down and time to think.
I have been being an ass the last nine months, watching to see if Mrs. Hammer will get better, be okay, and being not happy with what I am not seeing.
I have to own that. This is all about me, Me, ME.
Mind rolls back to my first day in my first Alanon meeting -- The Grand Dame told me: [Hammer], [Mrs. Hammer] is not your problem.
She was and still is correct.
The damn plumber is correct, too. I would have to be -- correction, make that: HAVE BEEN -- Pretty Stupid.
Next Wednesday.
Meeting Time.
Signed up and I am chairing.
Topic Night.
Already Announced "MY" Topic: Working the Steps.
Anyone have any questions or suggestions, add them on here.
Just counted. 87 Days. Note to me -- Hammer, You Gotta Alotta Work To Do.
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Hey all,
I am going to be down in the basement working on some of my stuff -- remodeling, updating, code compliance. That sort of stuff.
If you see the lights going on, or off, or anything, no big deal. Old hand, Safety First, we use Lock Out Tag Out and all.
Will stop in for lunch break from time-to-time.
Friends and Family Step Study - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
I am going to be down in the basement working on some of my stuff -- remodeling, updating, code compliance. That sort of stuff.
If you see the lights going on, or off, or anything, no big deal. Old hand, Safety First, we use Lock Out Tag Out and all.
Will stop in for lunch break from time-to-time.
Friends and Family Step Study - SoberRecovery : Alcoholism Drug Addiction Help and Information
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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THIS has bothered me. How foolish I am.
since you are a man of God, you are exactly as God intended you, perfect in his eyes despite what you struggle with.
Old Dale Carnegie stuff says that you should give a dog a good name and he will live up to it.
Wavy gave me a good name. I am trying to stick with my own low self-esteem.
Today. I can be a Godly Man. Just for Today, right?
============
btw, for those tracking the Meth-Beth saga.
She has lost her job, but still trekking on.
I am fighting my extreme Codie behavior to want to hire her.
Originally Posted by Wavy
since you are a man of God, you are exactly as God intended you, perfect in his eyes despite what you struggle with.
Originally Posted by Hammer
I would tend to score myself more along the lines of a sinful man, in a sinful land.
Wavy gave me a good name. I am trying to stick with my own low self-esteem.
Today. I can be a Godly Man. Just for Today, right?
============
btw, for those tracking the Meth-Beth saga.
She has lost her job, but still trekking on.
I am fighting my extreme Codie behavior to want to hire her.
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Join Date: Aug 2011
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Hammer---I have got to mention to you about our previous beagle that I named "LUCKY"
If you only knew what that dog put us through!!!!!!!!
We loved the He** out of him, though!!!!!!!!!!
(I am a wee bit out of context , here)
dandylion
If you only knew what that dog put us through!!!!!!!!
We loved the He** out of him, though!!!!!!!!!!
(I am a wee bit out of context , here)
dandylion
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