dunno

Old 08-05-2013, 11:12 AM
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dunno

Dunno what to call this.

Starting thinking it with Pippi's response about A's trolling Alanon meetings, in the now closed "Would you date an RA" thread.

Dunno. Sort of goofing off while doing a budget review.

Thank you all being here and being part of my so called recovery.

=================



I go and sit in an Open AA Newcomers Meeting most Sunday evenings. My Daughter goes to the Alateen next room over at the same time. Been doing that since February.

So sitting with the AA-ers. I have "studied" the *them* and *us* Like Sun Tzu teaches (Art of War) Know The Enemy, Know Yourself.

I have one sort of friend there. She is older than me, and she is kind of harshly Crack/Meth-Addled. You know the twitches and erratic motions and walk. Sometimes talks like Porkie Pig. My own nickname for her (in my head, only) is Meth-Beth.

First meeting I went there, she was stumbling across the sidewalk trying to open the door. Dropping her purse, books, everything. And all the smoking AA folks just sitting around or standing watching her.

So I rush over to her and pick up her stuff, open the door and guide her in. She just looks around sort of happy and confused saying – “Oh my, Prince Charming has arrived.” I just laugh and say no, I am just a habitual rescuer, being in Alanon and all. She says -- if you are in Alanon, I guess you what you are here for.

So I sit and talk with her some at the meetings, I guess because she is "safe."

I can be nice to her, just for the sake of being nice, and she is not going to try to do me or something. I guess that is it. She is working her program, trying to do good, be good, and I can be nice back and know she is not going to try to funk me.

But I have watched the AA demeanor and compared it to the typical Alanon room. Especially Alanon newcomers. You know the look. Alanon Newcomers . . . If they (we) are not trying to do the frozen smile mask thing, they are looking at the floor, hunched forward, elbows on the knees, sometimes even toes turned inward. Just the beat puppies that we are.

So when I sit over in the AA room, I have watched the AA men, so I can sort of maybe pass or blend-in. The tend to lean back in their chair, with either arms folded, or stretched out across side seats, and speak in amplified, larger-than-life type style. It is just about like Mrs. Hammer in Brag-zilla Persona. (that is daughter’s nickname for when Mrs. Hammer goes into How Great She is).

So I have been studying all the animals in the zoo, and some of me, too.

------------------------------------------

Over time Meth-Beth is doing better and better, and that makes my heart happy. She now has a part-time job in a grocery store, and even is chairing the Sunday evening Newcomers meeting this month.

I could not be more proud of her.

They do the AA meeting different than the Alanon meetings. In Alanon it goes around the room and everybody speaks. In the AA meeting, the chair calls on you, or you can offer to speak in the second half of the meeting.

So I tend to keep quiet and try to just look like I belong and am part of the furniture.

But last night, since she was chairing, Meth-Beth calls on me to speak during the open portion. I tried to dodge saying that I am Alanon, not AA, but they all said Go Ahead, so I tried to do the Brag-zilla type pose . . .

I tried to start it like my corporate board room routine. In corporate-land I just talk the facts, joke it a little, and they just line up to trust me with millions of dollars and just assume I must know what I am doing. I give them the nod like they are making the “smart” decision and we all go off happy.

So I am trying that, telling them Thank You for the AA program, and how much Alanoner’s love the AA’ers working their program, and why I am there, and about Mrs. Hammer relapsing and . . .

And. My voice cracked. I heard it and tried to recover, but could not. I tried to re-start and it cracked again. Worse. At least I did not cry. So I feel my whole body slumping into the Alanon Damaged pose, shoulders drooping, elbows on knees, l look down and see my toes turning inward, so I am staring at the floor, saying, guess that is all I have to say about that, like I am Forrest Gump or something.

They go quiet for a minute, and move on, but when I look up -- four of the Vampire Alcoholic Women are staring at me with The Look. You know the look/leer. Like they want to take possession of you and take you out back and do you in the dumpster.

Wounded in enemy territory, leaving a blood trail, and they are closing on you. One even followed me over to the Alateen room with the Big Shark Teeth smile and chatting about how you doing. Was so glad when my Daughter comes out to rescue me and we head out.

-------------------------

Driving home, I was thinking about Meth-Beth.

Meth-Beth -- I was so happy for her to be doing well, and chairing the meeting.

I am thinking. I have to start working My Program like Meth-Beth is working hers.

I really, really want to get better, too.

I just cannot take this crap anymore.
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:26 AM
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i think we have to remember that just walking thru the doors of AA or Alanon or the like, does not CHANGE people for the better. sharks can just as easily be found in church groups, pta meetings, book clubs and bars........

i do like that while you are analyzing and categorizing, you chose to put your focus on your friend Beth....that YOU want what SHE has. cuz that is what matters.

altho we never attended at the same time, it turns out that hank and i went to meetings at the same AA hall (he many years after me) and many of the same characters were still there. and when a wide eyed scared to death HOT looking 38-going-on 28 year old walked in, the women were on him like white on rice, WELCOMING the newcomer. eve had his very own stalker for a bit.....

is that the fault of AA? or recovery? nope, just good ole human nature......
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:47 AM
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AA/Alanon meetings are a good place to put into practice behaviors that will keep YOU out of TROUBLE, dude*



*said with head cocked and giving you the stink eye..


LOL
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Old 08-05-2013, 11:50 AM
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Hammer, thanks for posting this. I've been feeling a little wobbly lately about my job. It's in an industry that shrinking and to be honest at almost 60 I'm simply tired of my work. So, this gets me into some low grade what if, what if.

Reading about Meth-Beth really lifted my spirits. I realize that I will be able to get by no problem. It might be a major change in life style by hey, I've already handled one of those when I left my AW. So, I can handle it again. Sometimes you just need a reminder that life can be good where ever you are. And Meth-Beth was my reminder.

It made me think of a saying I had heard somewhere.

Falling down isn't losing, not getting back up is losing.

Your friend,
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Old 08-05-2013, 12:22 PM
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Hey Hammer;

I hear you; I get it. For me this is not being critical of AA members or meetings or the differences between cultures. But the truth is, it's extremely different.

To not acknowledge that people who visit the halls of Al-Anon and the halls of AA are different than PTA or Church groups is to minimize the illness and troubles we have and how we are all concentrated in those rooms. In Al-Anon like Hammer says, we are much more serious and yes, beaten down. In my Al-Anon meetings rarely do people care about coffee/tea/cookies. I am sure there is 13th stepping going on in Al-Anon...i just have not seen it. I swear, people there are just beaten down. In AA meetings it's quite different. There is this "energy", a certain cockiness, and lots of smoking, cookies, tons of Starbucks, and certainly much more male/female energy. There are also people who clearly have done the work; they really show. They are the calmer ones, usually not in the smoking circle; they are focused and steady. I have the feeling they have put their heart and soul in the work and truly walk the talk. The more work Al-Anon and AA members put into their recovery, the more similar they become to each other. Newcomers to AA and Al-Anon look/act very different.

Anyway, these are my personal observations.

Carrie
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AnvilheadII View Post

i do like that while you are analyzing and categorizing, you chose to put your focus on your friend Beth....that YOU want what SHE has. cuz that is what matters.
Yep. Really admire her.

Always amazes me to see God use the downtrodden and rejected of the world as His Will and His Way.




eve had his very own stalker for a bit.....
Yeah, I have one of those from the DART train.

Korean girl I bought a train ticket/pass for. She was stuffing single dollar bills in the machine, so I bought her a pass on my card, just we would not miss the train.

When she was going to give me the money on the train later, I noticed she had chipped finger nail polish (that is very NOT Korean) and asked her to keep the money.

She decided I some sort of nice guy and wanted to be my mistress or something.

Happens whenever I let down the jackass force field.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Jazzman View Post
AA/Alanon meetings are a good place to put into practice behaviors that will keep YOU out of TROUBLE, dude*



*said with head cocked and giving you the stink eye..


LOL

You probably tracked all that backwards.

but that makes sense coming in the middle.

Pretty much the basic concept from the prior thread is why *WE* would NOT choose an A again.

I am just observing that the well-trained vampire A would tend to hunt *US.*

Run, Forrest, Run!
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:11 PM
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Hammer, love your sense of humor!
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by m1k3 View Post
Hammer, thanks for posting this. I've been feeling a little wobbly lately about my job. It's in an industry that shrinking and to be honest at almost 60 I'm simply tired of my work. So, this gets me into some low grade what if, what if.
ALWAYS a new day tomorrow.



Able to get by no problem. It might be a major change in life style by hey, I've already handled one of those when I left my AW. So, I can handle it again. Sometimes you just need a reminder that life can be good where ever you are. And Meth-Beth was my reminder.
I know, I know.

Meth-Beth LOOKS like such a total mess -- Sometimes I think she HAS to be an Angel doing human parody or something.



It made me think of a saying I had heard somewhere.

Falling down isn't losing, not getting back up is losing.
yep.



Your friend,
Indeed. Thank you.
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Old 08-05-2013, 01:22 PM
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Happens whenever I let down the jackass force field.

ah but then there are those drawn TO the jackass force field as well, so you really can't win!

yeah hank made the mistake of offering to give her a ride home in his truck...she rode her bicycle to and from meetings and it was raining......he found her effort admirable, she found his kindness A-MA-ZING......
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Old 08-05-2013, 03:52 PM
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Yeah, Hammer, I know. I get the same thing every time I place my cool hand upon a fevered brow---while wearing a low-cut blouse.


dandylion
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:10 PM
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You raise some good points Hammer.
As for the mega males sounding off to impress, I find some of the ladies speak so low I may as well not be there. Maybe it's the acoustics.
I really see AA as a huge melting pot for troubled souls.
Twenty years ago, my first involvement, I just didn't get it

This year's return I hopefully have managed enough humbleness to just move along positively, without getting enmeshed in the obvious down side inherent in some human interaction.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:07 AM
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Interestingly what struck me from your story was that you tried to be something you weren't, to 'fit in' with your adopted AA pose and your corporate persona, but in the end you couldn't deny who you are and what you are feeling. And to me that's a good thing. You are uniquely you and experiencing your own unique life and, since you are a man of God, you are exactly as God intended you, perfect in his eyes despite what you struggle with. The people listening at AA will benefit from seeing the genuine you, just as much as you will benefit from expressing the genuine you. I'm glad you found inspiration from your friend, that is a gift indeed.
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Old 08-06-2013, 05:24 AM
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((Hammer))

Many years ago, I was invited to speak at a women's retreat - to share my Al-Anon story to mainly a group of women who were part of the AA & NA programs - there were some Al-Anoners - but not many.

We both had this pre-conceived idea of what I would be & I of course thought what they would be ~ and then as the program promises "More would be revealed"

WOW WOW WOW

I can not even describe the healing and recovery that I have learned from these awesome women and what they share they have learned from me ~

The walls came down and basically we all learned we just wanted to be accepted, loved and to have inner peace.

It's a very brave thing to as you say "enter enemy camp" ~ but once those lines are crossed and hearts & minds are truly open to recovery ~ amazing things can happen on your journey to healing!

just my e, s, & h

pink hugs!
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:09 PM
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It was a great post...and then it wasn't.
I get it. I'm a member of the good looking club, but...we can't project desire on the part of others that haven't even spoken to us as in wanting us.
It's just wrong.
And if you're that good looking, you know it's a blessing as well as a curse.

I really admire YOUR desire to work on your program.
If you work on that desire, instead of perceiving others desires, I wonder what you would have seen in the audience?
Maybe those that were truly listening to your pain. Maybe those that watched with amazement as you transformed from board room winner to ordinary broken man...
Hammer, I really feel for you. Not in THAT way.

I too desire the good coffee, the confectionary chocolate delights... and I have also desired to run screaming to the AA meeting just one room down the hall "Take Me!" because there was laughter in that room, there was liveliness, there was a desire for the finer things in life while the al-anon room seemed bleak, unadorned, lonely, and not just sober, but somber.
I still haven't worked that out.
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Old 08-06-2013, 03:20 PM
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Happens whenever I let down the jackass force field.
I seriously need to work on mine.
I think it's broken or something.
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Old 08-06-2013, 04:44 PM
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My .02 is that I have been to all kinds of meets.

I've been to meets that are _both_ AA and Al-anon at the same time. Powerful wisdom, lots of serenity, and plenty of laughs.

Have been to AA meets that were dark, somber and depressing. My Saturday Al-anon meet is full of happiness, some silliness, and hope.

There's places where the AA and al-anon meets are across the hall from each other, and peeps wander back and forth from one to the other.

What I find deeply inspiring about _any_ 12 step program is that many people do come in broken, but they leave whole, and stronger in the broken places. Assuming they actually _work_ the program.

In my experience I have never been able to tell what a meet is going to be like from just looking at the outside. It's only when I go inside and get to know the people that I find out what it's really like. Works that way with me, it's only when I go inside and find out what's really rattling around in my head that I can fix it and get back into life.

Funny how that works.

Mike
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:16 PM
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Smile

Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
Meth-Beth LOOKS like such a total mess -- Sometimes I think she HAS to be an Angel doing human parody or something.
Hammer, I had to smile when I got this cuz my first thought after reading your initial post was, "Wow, we just never know in what guise our angel's will come to us."
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Old 08-06-2013, 07:50 PM
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I really see AA as a huge melting pot for troubled souls.
You're correct. The same thing is true of Alanon.

I'm a recovering alcoholic in my 22nd year and I'm also codependent so I've been to both. Many alcoholics come in via Alanon. AA and Alanon are opposite sides of the same coin and it's no coincidence both use the 12 Steps. Alcoholics are addicted to booze and codependents are obsessed with alcoholics. The good news is both programs work if you're willing to do the hard work of recovery.
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Old 08-07-2013, 01:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dandylion View Post
Yeah, Hammer, I know. I get the same thing every time I place my cool hand upon a fevered brow---while wearing a low-cut blouse.


dandylion
Had not thought about me acting like a target.

Was joking with our intern at lunch. Was out with a couple of young guys and her for lunch, all engineers -- I am supposed to do something called mentoring, so once a week I take them out to lunch and we chat about whatever is on their minds and I pretty much tell them to not sweat it, this shall pass. Overall, we tend to have a good time and it creates community.

In truth, the "kids" all seem to have better sense than what tend to think of for myself. So I learn a lot from them. Guess that loops around to what a 70 year old retired school teacher (one of my best Alananny Angels) was telling me last month about my arrogance. That I am really that way because I think very low of myself. I need to listen to my Alananny Angels.

One of the guys in the lunch group is a chronic "lonely heart," so we were all doing our best mock romance advice for him. I was advocating being pathetic as a way of attracting a "care-taker" type girlfriend. Told him to try the library. When I take my kids there, women seem to coo up and that it must be a good hunting ground. At least for nerds.

So the intern steps in --

Intern: You take your kids, right? to the library, I mean?

Hammer: Yes, of course.

Intern: And you are probably holding their hands and carrying their books?

Hammer: Sure, and I help them pick out some of their books.

Intern: And you are doing all that without a wedding ring on?

Hammer: Sure. Had not even through of that.

Intern: (rolls her eyes) Ok. What else?

Hammer: I always attract basket-cases.

Hammer: Usually happens when I am trying to sit up and look like I "belong" somewhere, or just trying to do something "good." Then something happens and I feel sad and slump, and that is when they pounce. -- so then I sort of model how I did at the AA meeting.

Intern: (Just stops and stares like I am a mouth-breathing idiot) Oh geeezzz. That . . . . That is good. No wonder.

===============

So at any rate, I guess I create my own weather. Dunno what, but I guess I now know sort of why.

Just a sucker with no self-esteem.


===========

SELF ESTEEM LYRICS - OFFSPRING

wrote her off for the tenth time today
And practiced all the things I would say
But she came over
I lost my nerve
I took her back and made her dessert
Now I know I'm being used
That's okay man cause I like the abuse
I know she's playing with me
That's okay cause I got no self esteem

We make plans to go out at night
I wait till 2 then I turn out the light
All this rejection's got me so low
If she keeps it up I just might tell her so

When she's saying that she wants only me
Then I wonder why she sleeps with my friends
When she's saying that I'm like a disease
Then I wonder how much more I can spend
Well I guess I should stick up for myself
But I really think it's better this way
The more you suffer
The more it shows you really care
Right? Yeah yeah yeah

Now I'll relate this little bit
That happens more than I'd like to admit
Late at night she knocks on my door
Drunk again and looking to score
Now I know I should say no
But that's kind of hard when she's ready to go
I may be dumb
But I'm not a dweeb
I'm just a sucker with no self esteem
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