dunno
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Mkay. Time to update this wacky thread. Yesterday afternoon I took the kids Ice Skating. Open Skate Time. My 11 y.o. daughter is a "real" ice skater, but it looked like she would miss her lesson this week, so while Mrs. Hammer was off for an AA Gossip Girl Baby Shower (not ours -- one of her AA friends), I took all the kids skating. Great time. Daughter was coaching our 6 y.o. son some. Good gordies I cannot believe HOW FAST she has become. I can still beat her in a sprint running -- but skating -- I was flat out running on my skates -- and I am fairly decent skater -- and cannot keep up with her. She looks like she is barely hitting a toe pick and is just sailing along. She says over her shoulder to me -- "It is okay, dad . . . I am just making it look easy," as she peels off backwards into a spiral and jump. Amazing.
The little man, the 6 y.o. he did some 100 laps (probably really 50 but he was counting so who am I to disagree?) Our 9 y.o. Cub Scout was sort of resistant, but after a couple of times around I noticed he had put his skates on the wrong feet after he said they were hurting. Got that straightened out and everyone had good time overall.
On the way back, the 9 y.o. . . . He started asking again . . . with mom telling so many lies since rehab, and him not knowing if I am telling the real truth (since I do not match on Mrs. Hammer's lying), how can he figure out the truth? I told him that he would probably need some outside reference, that neither mom nor I could influence, and that could help him figure things out.
They all even know that Granna is fairly "codie" at this point. They have even come and told me that. So driving along we were chatting about what and where the 9 y.o. could get some help. The answer turned the same as had been for our 11 y.o. daughter. Alateen. The 9 y.o. Cub Scout announced he would go to Alateen, the weekly meeting was that evening.
He asked our daughter if that would be okay, and she said it would be great by her, as she had decided to take a little break for a little while, anyway.
She has decided that "normal" people are not in "programs." Mom is in AA. That is not normal. Dad (me) is in Alanon. Again, not normal. She was/is in Alateen. That could not be normal. She just wanted to be normal for awhile and thought she would take a break. Then the conversation started getting spacey. Like when you all have to listen to/read my stuff.
She said she had filled out an application for the "Normal Kids Club" at school, but flunked the entrance exam. She said it seemed like an easy test, but she had a couple of answers wrong, and they do not tell you the correct answers even after you take the test, and there are no re-tests. So she was out. But she still just wanted to be normal.
But like the skating -- I have watched what she has done --
She has sort of put a "club" together of all the misfit kids and kids from families with problems. Her best friend has cystic fibrous, and is small and used to get picked on until our daughter adopted him. All the rest of her group has problems, too. Alcohol and drug families. Divorces. Some of the kids on psych meds. One kid they call ISI guy (In School Suspension), another they call GG for Ghetto Girl, from the hood. And she has adopted this pack. As I have sat back and watched, I have come to understand that is she running a 12th Step operation on the entire 6th grade at her school. All while just being "normal."
And I sit and look at myself, still poking along on my Steps, and I all I can think of is her laughing, looking over her shoulder -- "It is okay, dad . . . I am just making it look easy." Yeah. Sure. Go, Kid, Go.
-----------------------
Next . . . .
Taking the 9 y.o. to Alateen.
The little man, the 6 y.o. he did some 100 laps (probably really 50 but he was counting so who am I to disagree?) Our 9 y.o. Cub Scout was sort of resistant, but after a couple of times around I noticed he had put his skates on the wrong feet after he said they were hurting. Got that straightened out and everyone had good time overall.
On the way back, the 9 y.o. . . . He started asking again . . . with mom telling so many lies since rehab, and him not knowing if I am telling the real truth (since I do not match on Mrs. Hammer's lying), how can he figure out the truth? I told him that he would probably need some outside reference, that neither mom nor I could influence, and that could help him figure things out.
They all even know that Granna is fairly "codie" at this point. They have even come and told me that. So driving along we were chatting about what and where the 9 y.o. could get some help. The answer turned the same as had been for our 11 y.o. daughter. Alateen. The 9 y.o. Cub Scout announced he would go to Alateen, the weekly meeting was that evening.
He asked our daughter if that would be okay, and she said it would be great by her, as she had decided to take a little break for a little while, anyway.
She has decided that "normal" people are not in "programs." Mom is in AA. That is not normal. Dad (me) is in Alanon. Again, not normal. She was/is in Alateen. That could not be normal. She just wanted to be normal for awhile and thought she would take a break. Then the conversation started getting spacey. Like when you all have to listen to/read my stuff.
She said she had filled out an application for the "Normal Kids Club" at school, but flunked the entrance exam. She said it seemed like an easy test, but she had a couple of answers wrong, and they do not tell you the correct answers even after you take the test, and there are no re-tests. So she was out. But she still just wanted to be normal.
But like the skating -- I have watched what she has done --
She has sort of put a "club" together of all the misfit kids and kids from families with problems. Her best friend has cystic fibrous, and is small and used to get picked on until our daughter adopted him. All the rest of her group has problems, too. Alcohol and drug families. Divorces. Some of the kids on psych meds. One kid they call ISI guy (In School Suspension), another they call GG for Ghetto Girl, from the hood. And she has adopted this pack. As I have sat back and watched, I have come to understand that is she running a 12th Step operation on the entire 6th grade at her school. All while just being "normal."
And I sit and look at myself, still poking along on my Steps, and I all I can think of is her laughing, looking over her shoulder -- "It is okay, dad . . . I am just making it look easy." Yeah. Sure. Go, Kid, Go.
-----------------------
Next . . . .
Taking the 9 y.o. to Alateen.
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Kids are amazing aren't they? I remember thinking that my daughter (about 5th, 6th grade at the time), could not really understand what was going on. We were driving to my sisters and I was trying to explain her dad's alcoholism to her. She said, "I know mom, he is sick and only he can fix this. He needs help and unless someone helps him it won't get any better but that will be his choice."
I was absolutely stunned. Here her little young self had stated in one sitting what it took me years to comprehend and apply.
You are obviously an amazing dad Mr. Hammer, your kids are lucky.
Blessings!
I was absolutely stunned. Here her little young self had stated in one sitting what it took me years to comprehend and apply.
You are obviously an amazing dad Mr. Hammer, your kids are lucky.
Blessings!
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Posts: 3,707
Taking the 9 y.o. to Alateen.
So after I heard the words that the 9 y.o. wanted to go Alateen, I had that as my mission.
But I was dreading Mrs. Hammer. She went into total meltdown screaming fits when I first took our 11 y.o. daughter to Alateen. She would REALLY go berserk when she found out I took our 9 y.o. son.
Mrs. Hammer was still out with the AA Gossip Girls by the time we left for Alateen meeting. I get the 9 y.o. parked in the Alateen room and get some coffee and go sit down in the AA room for an Open Meeting. Meth-Beth (same from earlier in this thread) sits down next to me. That made my heart lift. She sat down with some cut up fruit and yogurt. And was about as brain-nerve-damaged spastic as ever. About half way down her yogurt she let out a spastic snort and had yogurt coming out of her nose. I started giggling and she looked over and she started giggling, too.
We had some stern looks from some of the old-tymers, but hey, whatever.
Shortly after that, for some reason the Chair called on me. I pointed at me? Yes, you. Ok -- but I am an Alanon and here because my kid is in Alateen. They said please talk anyway. And I start the crying crap. But this time I just keep going. Told them my daughter made it through Alateen, now my son, told them the best thing they (AAer's) could do for their family was keep working their program, and that is what we all want the most. AND that I was dreading going home because of how angry Mrs. Hammer will be.
But by now, since I am crying, Meth-Beth is crying, too. But then she was the next to speak. That was amazing. Her voice went completely clear as she explained -- speaking to the topic -- that some folks seem to have a hard time when they forget it is a "Spiritual Program."
The rest of the meeting that kept passing through my mind. Spiritual Program. Spiritual Program.
We did the closing, I thanked Meth Beth for the Spiritual Program thoughts, and she said she was only talking about her own experience, no comment on mine. Suuurrrrreee.
I told her she was one of my Angels. She paused, and again with the totally clear voice, she said, "Yes, some people do make that perception of others." Totally Clear. No spazs at all. Then the spaz drifted back.
I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT. God is having fun with me. God Bless Meth Beth.
So Cub Scout 9 y.o. comes in and finds me, says hello to Meth Beth, and we head out. The night kept getting better. He is telling me that in Alateen they did Crappy to Happy Lists, and he was giggling and giggling about it. Then I figured out where they got it from -- my daughter -- we were going through this back when she was in Alateen, this Spring . . .
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...appy-list.html
Since we running so well things just kept going so. Mrs. Hammer was still not home when we got back, I got both the boys in bed, read Bible Stories to the 6 y.o. and they were both asleep, daughter was doing math homework, and I was drifting off by the time Mrs. Hammer came home.
So Mrs. Hammer was up this morning, and the 6 y.o. was up for breakfast. She was asking him -- What did you do all do yesterday? All he kept saying was he had skated around the ice rink 100 times. The older two had not gotten up by the she left for work.
Sooooo. Mrs. Hammer still has no idea that the 9 y.o. has went to Ala-Teen. AND that he found it to be wonderful. AND he wants to go back every week. AND he has started his own Crappy to Happy List. I am kind of betting that Mrs. Hammer's Lying Addiction are going to be on his Crappy List.
And whenever it comes up that our son has been/is going to Alateen . . . . I do not think I have to worry about it. I will let God handle that. As my Meth-Beth Angel tells me -- It is a Spiritual Program, after all.
So after I heard the words that the 9 y.o. wanted to go Alateen, I had that as my mission.
But I was dreading Mrs. Hammer. She went into total meltdown screaming fits when I first took our 11 y.o. daughter to Alateen. She would REALLY go berserk when she found out I took our 9 y.o. son.
Mrs. Hammer was still out with the AA Gossip Girls by the time we left for Alateen meeting. I get the 9 y.o. parked in the Alateen room and get some coffee and go sit down in the AA room for an Open Meeting. Meth-Beth (same from earlier in this thread) sits down next to me. That made my heart lift. She sat down with some cut up fruit and yogurt. And was about as brain-nerve-damaged spastic as ever. About half way down her yogurt she let out a spastic snort and had yogurt coming out of her nose. I started giggling and she looked over and she started giggling, too.
We had some stern looks from some of the old-tymers, but hey, whatever.
Shortly after that, for some reason the Chair called on me. I pointed at me? Yes, you. Ok -- but I am an Alanon and here because my kid is in Alateen. They said please talk anyway. And I start the crying crap. But this time I just keep going. Told them my daughter made it through Alateen, now my son, told them the best thing they (AAer's) could do for their family was keep working their program, and that is what we all want the most. AND that I was dreading going home because of how angry Mrs. Hammer will be.
But by now, since I am crying, Meth-Beth is crying, too. But then she was the next to speak. That was amazing. Her voice went completely clear as she explained -- speaking to the topic -- that some folks seem to have a hard time when they forget it is a "Spiritual Program."
The rest of the meeting that kept passing through my mind. Spiritual Program. Spiritual Program.
We did the closing, I thanked Meth Beth for the Spiritual Program thoughts, and she said she was only talking about her own experience, no comment on mine. Suuurrrrreee.
I told her she was one of my Angels. She paused, and again with the totally clear voice, she said, "Yes, some people do make that perception of others." Totally Clear. No spazs at all. Then the spaz drifted back.
I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT, I KNEW IT. God is having fun with me. God Bless Meth Beth.
So Cub Scout 9 y.o. comes in and finds me, says hello to Meth Beth, and we head out. The night kept getting better. He is telling me that in Alateen they did Crappy to Happy Lists, and he was giggling and giggling about it. Then I figured out where they got it from -- my daughter -- we were going through this back when she was in Alateen, this Spring . . .
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...appy-list.html
Since we running so well things just kept going so. Mrs. Hammer was still not home when we got back, I got both the boys in bed, read Bible Stories to the 6 y.o. and they were both asleep, daughter was doing math homework, and I was drifting off by the time Mrs. Hammer came home.
So Mrs. Hammer was up this morning, and the 6 y.o. was up for breakfast. She was asking him -- What did you do all do yesterday? All he kept saying was he had skated around the ice rink 100 times. The older two had not gotten up by the she left for work.
Sooooo. Mrs. Hammer still has no idea that the 9 y.o. has went to Ala-Teen. AND that he found it to be wonderful. AND he wants to go back every week. AND he has started his own Crappy to Happy List. I am kind of betting that Mrs. Hammer's Lying Addiction are going to be on his Crappy List.
And whenever it comes up that our son has been/is going to Alateen . . . . I do not think I have to worry about it. I will let God handle that. As my Meth-Beth Angel tells me -- It is a Spiritual Program, after all.
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Hammer, I have to ask why do you stay with Mrs. Hammer? It seems like she is still the old self with the lies. Your kids seem to be healthy with you the primary caregiver. Most people go to rehab and are drunk or high within six months. If your wife is really sober why not give her more of a chance with the kids?
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Join Date: Aug 2010
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Hammer, as usual, your stories are inspiring and make me think. My own 14 year old says he's not ready for Alateen, but I wish he was. He stays home with my AH and they play ping pong for an hour and then sit and watch TV together. He likes this time with his dad and I'm happy for them to have something to enjoy together.
Glad you're here today!!!
Glad you're here today!!!
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Originally Posted by hopeful4 
Kids are amazing aren't they? I remember thinking that my daughter (about 5th, 6th grade at the time), could not really understand what was going on. We were driving to my sisters and I was trying to explain her dad's alcoholism to her. She said, "I know mom, he is sick and only he can fix this. He needs help and unless someone helps him it won't get any better but that will be his choice."
I was absolutely stunned. Here her little young self had stated in one sitting what it took me years to comprehend and apply.
I was absolutely stunned. Here her little young self had stated in one sitting what it took me years to comprehend and apply.
Blessings!
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Originally Posted by Upsetnneedhelp
Hammer, I have to ask why do you stay with Mrs. Hammer? It seems like she is still the old self with the lies. Your kids seem to be healthy with you the primary caregiver. Most people go to rehab and are drunk or high within six months. If your wife is really sober why not give her more of a chance with the kids?
and let me just say . . . . .
You may be right.
Like the thread says -- dunno.
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Went to the Men's Alanon Meeting tonight.
So strange I used to be scared of it Now we mostly just laugh.
Went next door to the AA meeting at the end.
Meth Beth was there. She is still doing good.
God is Good.
So strange I used to be scared of it Now we mostly just laugh.
Went next door to the AA meeting at the end.
Meth Beth was there. She is still doing good.
God is Good.
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 11,424
I'm glad to hear Meth Beth is still doing well--I loved your comment that she is a
angel "parodying a human" with her dress style
It's great you are enjoying the Men's Alanon meeting, but I am a little
worried, Hammer, about how things are going for you and family at home.
You've dropped a few hints that Mrs. Hammer isn't working the program for real.
Sorry if I'm wrong or being nosy, just wanting to open lines of communication
in case you feel like talking / venting a little
angel "parodying a human" with her dress style
It's great you are enjoying the Men's Alanon meeting, but I am a little
worried, Hammer, about how things are going for you and family at home.
You've dropped a few hints that Mrs. Hammer isn't working the program for real.
Sorry if I'm wrong or being nosy, just wanting to open lines of communication
in case you feel like talking / venting a little
Engineer Things; LOVE People
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,707
Originally Posted by Hawkeye13
It's great you are enjoying the Men's Alanon meeting, but I am a little
worried, Hammer, about how things are going for you and family at home.
You've dropped a few hints that Mrs. Hammer isn't working the program for real.
Sorry if I'm wrong or being nosy, just wanting to open lines of communication
in case you feel like talking / venting a little
While she has gotten herself demoted to AWtf, it is still as true today, as the first day of Alanon when they told me, "[Hammer], [AWtf] is not your problem."
They were and are quite correct -- AWtf is not Hammer's problem.
So. Along the lines of the Serenity Prayer . . . I will work and continue to work on the Things I Can Change -- me, work-business type stuff, education, kids' stuff, housing, and while I bring those in line, I expect the Things I Cannot Change -- like AWtf -- to have taken care of themselves either way.
I still fully expect to have a wife who pretty much matches my Crappy to Happy List . . .
To Love and Be Loved
Open and Truthful
Steady and Ordered
Gratitude
Whether that will be AWtf remains to be seen.
But either way . . . .
Not Hammer's Problem. And I sure do not want it to be.
http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...appy-list.html
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Hammer, this is a fascinating thread. Your faith in the 12 steps and the promises is very impressive to me. It is perhaps perceived as arrogance by some? Eh engineer shrug I'm sure from you.
I think you have lived your life somewhat like the movie character of Forrest Gump? You accept what is going on and who you are with and try to learn the lesson. Some of your lessons have been heartbreaking and you have made a trifecta of intellect, faith and Army repetition of routine as your three pronged approach to life. The faith inherent in the 12 steps works very much to your favor bc you won't question it. You take orders well from God, and accept the hierarchy of command with just enough back talk to point out you are a clever one in the line. That you can think independently if called out of line. Please call on me as I jog backwards across the finish line. Single me out. Save me. I'm putting my time in.
Mrs. Hammer called you out. She saw you were special. She saw you could save her like you seemed to save some others. Three great kids later, you realize at some level you cannot save her from herself. She might need to be left behind at some juncture. But you can't make such a decision without God. You are waiting for a sign. I think you somewhat think the sign will be a new wife? This is why you are evaluating the vampire As, the mom's at school, and just generally trolling for a new partner to save you and your 3 kids too? No ring on? Puppy dog look perfected?
You know this is your time. Geeks are totally hot now. Plus you are funny. Arrogance is best tolerated with a side of self deprecating humor. You could really move up and score a sane wife if you are a careful and ask God to help you be a bit more choosy. There's faith and then there's blind faith, ya know?
Like any other thing you have excelled at, now you are 110% buy in of recovery. Mrs. Hammer works in the recovery "industry" but has not had the most stellar personal recovery. However, To recap, Mrs. Hammer likely has a mental illness. 12 steps is not going to fully on its own heal her. But you bought in and marched your way through the steps and now you have mastered this milieu. You are a regular, you speak the lingo, you study 'the enemy' at open AA meetings, you even represent Al Anon at Mrs. Hammer's place of work during family week. It must drive her insane to have you mastering her own line of work and you are saving others by spreading the word and being a good example. You know it must trigger her. You live with her but it is clear that you aren't focused on her any more. She must just twitch to see you getting attention for your All Anon serenity showcase. It is real - but she knows you underneath - and I imagine she wants to tear you down and expose your lack of self esteem. Because if she can't have you, she probably wants to destroy you.
You are in an role you feel comfortable with - an expert. It allows your trifecta to shine. Recovery is a great avenue for you to feel needed and help others. It gives you great joy. It is a system very much in your natural realm. Hard work, showing up and having faith = promises and great respect.
But maybe God wants you to use your intellect to make your own move? Maybe waiting around for the last helo out is not really what God wants you to do? Maybe your lesson now is to have faith in yourself and if things are not good at home - it is time to book your flight out with the kids - before you line up the next Mrs. Hammer.
Why can't you take the advice you give Steelman (depart dumb a--)? What keeps you frozen Hammer? You may have reaped a lot of the program and the 12 steps has given you a lot of peace and validation for the hard march you did on them, but I fear you still have a lack of self esteem. You know this as you admit it in this thread.
You have more doggedness than probably anyone on SR. Your faith is unquestionable. Your humor and work and education prove you are smart smart smart. Time to turn that inwards and build yourself up. You learned the lesson that you can't save Mrs. Hammer. What if the next lesson is saving yourself?
You are worth it. Otherwise I wouldn't write you such a long KITA on a lovely Saturday morning. Let me know when we are flying in to pull Steelman out and buy him an elephant ear at Shipshewana. Maybe some tube socks too...
I think you have lived your life somewhat like the movie character of Forrest Gump? You accept what is going on and who you are with and try to learn the lesson. Some of your lessons have been heartbreaking and you have made a trifecta of intellect, faith and Army repetition of routine as your three pronged approach to life. The faith inherent in the 12 steps works very much to your favor bc you won't question it. You take orders well from God, and accept the hierarchy of command with just enough back talk to point out you are a clever one in the line. That you can think independently if called out of line. Please call on me as I jog backwards across the finish line. Single me out. Save me. I'm putting my time in.
Mrs. Hammer called you out. She saw you were special. She saw you could save her like you seemed to save some others. Three great kids later, you realize at some level you cannot save her from herself. She might need to be left behind at some juncture. But you can't make such a decision without God. You are waiting for a sign. I think you somewhat think the sign will be a new wife? This is why you are evaluating the vampire As, the mom's at school, and just generally trolling for a new partner to save you and your 3 kids too? No ring on? Puppy dog look perfected?
You know this is your time. Geeks are totally hot now. Plus you are funny. Arrogance is best tolerated with a side of self deprecating humor. You could really move up and score a sane wife if you are a careful and ask God to help you be a bit more choosy. There's faith and then there's blind faith, ya know?
Like any other thing you have excelled at, now you are 110% buy in of recovery. Mrs. Hammer works in the recovery "industry" but has not had the most stellar personal recovery. However, To recap, Mrs. Hammer likely has a mental illness. 12 steps is not going to fully on its own heal her. But you bought in and marched your way through the steps and now you have mastered this milieu. You are a regular, you speak the lingo, you study 'the enemy' at open AA meetings, you even represent Al Anon at Mrs. Hammer's place of work during family week. It must drive her insane to have you mastering her own line of work and you are saving others by spreading the word and being a good example. You know it must trigger her. You live with her but it is clear that you aren't focused on her any more. She must just twitch to see you getting attention for your All Anon serenity showcase. It is real - but she knows you underneath - and I imagine she wants to tear you down and expose your lack of self esteem. Because if she can't have you, she probably wants to destroy you.
You are in an role you feel comfortable with - an expert. It allows your trifecta to shine. Recovery is a great avenue for you to feel needed and help others. It gives you great joy. It is a system very much in your natural realm. Hard work, showing up and having faith = promises and great respect.
But maybe God wants you to use your intellect to make your own move? Maybe waiting around for the last helo out is not really what God wants you to do? Maybe your lesson now is to have faith in yourself and if things are not good at home - it is time to book your flight out with the kids - before you line up the next Mrs. Hammer.
Why can't you take the advice you give Steelman (depart dumb a--)? What keeps you frozen Hammer? You may have reaped a lot of the program and the 12 steps has given you a lot of peace and validation for the hard march you did on them, but I fear you still have a lack of self esteem. You know this as you admit it in this thread.
You have more doggedness than probably anyone on SR. Your faith is unquestionable. Your humor and work and education prove you are smart smart smart. Time to turn that inwards and build yourself up. You learned the lesson that you can't save Mrs. Hammer. What if the next lesson is saving yourself?
You are worth it. Otherwise I wouldn't write you such a long KITA on a lovely Saturday morning. Let me know when we are flying in to pull Steelman out and buy him an elephant ear at Shipshewana. Maybe some tube socks too...
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