jakesgirl1120

that was really kind, good luck with your divorce
that too is a long hard road

DefofLov

I think it is really healthy that you are really asking yourself if this person is right for you. At least, I think you are rethinking and analyzing whether or not this relationship is right for you. Keep asking yourself questions, taking care of yourself, and re-evaluating what is right for you. I am sure he is a good guy, otherwise you wouldn't have dated him in the first place.

I am sending you love and light. I am wishing you well on your journey.

theuncertainty

Not mean at all, incredibly insightful and truthful.

Unfortunately, no one will be able to say whether or not your RABF (recovering alcoholic boyfriend) will learn to be considerate of others feelings as he continues. It takes a lot of hard work to un-learn the modes of interaction that we've already learned; it's up to him to put in that work.

In addition to those already mentioned in this thread, another book that I read often is Letting Go with Love: Help for Those Who Love an Alcoholic/Addict Whether Practicing or Recovering by Julia H.

Welcome to F&F.

laurie6781

I am going to go back to your original post and question.

First a bit of background. I got sober in June of '81. I married another sober alcoholic when I was 18 months sober, (Dec. '82) when he was just about 4 years sober. He was the 'impetus' that got me to start attending Alanon. His DOC (drug of choice) changed and he started gambling.

Now, there is no way I was thoughtful, kind, and considerate of others at 18 months. He was not thoughtful, kind, and considerate of others at 4 years. We did get divorced in July of '87. I do not believe he ever became thoughtful, kind, and considerate of anyone during the rest of his life.

I, on the other hand, with advice from my sponsors, (after my divorce) (both my AA sponsor and my Alanon sponsor) who told me to take at least 1 year and LIVE WITH ME. No relationships, learn to like me, learn what I do not like about me, etc

Well that 1 year turned into almost 5 years, roflmao and during that time I continued to work on Living the 'Principals' of the 12 steps in ALL my affairs (work, family, friends, clerks in stores, etc). It was during those 5 years that I learned about and put into practice FOR ME:

'just for today I will practice thoughtfulness, kindness and consideration to all who cross my path and I will treat all who cross my path as I would wish to be treated.'

Hard? You bet it is hard!! And I still 'practice' this daily.

Now to your original question, I personally, and this is J M H O from working with so so many A's over the years, do not believe any A is ready for the 'intensity' of a relationship with a partner for at least the first 10 years of their recovery and some never.

Alcoholics are Self Will Run Riot to the EXTREME while out there practicing their affliction all those years. It takes many years in recovery to have new behaviors become ingrained, and some never do.

I always say that my sponsor on my 3rd anniversary in AA 'strongly suggested' that I start Alanon immediately. In fact what she said, and she was not a woman who normally used vulgarity was:

"Laurie get your azz to alanon NOW, and get an alanon sponsor who is a double winner."

Sheesh there was no 'leeway' there at all. However, I did what she said, and have been ever grateful since then. I often say, that although AA gave me the 12 steps and showed me a way to stay sober, Alanon showed me how to apply those 12 steps in my life, and gave me some tools to deal with EVERYONE in my life not just A's.

You might want to check it out, give it a try, at least 6 different meetings to see if any of them 'click.'

There are 3 C's that we talk about a lot. Usually they apply to the A's addiction. However, they can be applied to 'behaviors or lack of behaviors' also. Such as what you asked about:

You didn't cause this.

You can't control this.

You can't cure this.

So, can you accept him, just as he is now? If he never changes one iota more and stays just as he is now?

That is something you might want to look at for you.

J M H O based on my many years working with others in recovery from AA, NA, and Alanon.

Hope the above helps a bit. Take what you want, leave the rest.

Love and hugs,

ps: Many of us on these threads have been through hell, fire and damnation and a few other very unpleasant things to get here and find our own recovery. We continue to share and post in the hopes that some who join us may not have to experience some of what we did and can sooner see the 'red flags' than we did.

changeschoices

I guess what I would say is, what are the ways in which he is inconsiderate to you? Are they big issues? Do they make you feel hurt, anxious, unappreciated? Do they make you feel you are giving too much and he is giving too little? Could they possibly be deal-breakers? (Everyone has their own deal-breakers; it's helpful to define what yours are.) How does he respond when you tell him he is being inconsiderate? If he never improves on these behaviors, could you still be happy or would you eventually become resentful? Do you feel exploited in any ways--with your time, your money, your support, sexually? Do you feel at all neglected or manipulated?

Perhaps writing it down privately would be helpful and give you clarity. Please don't hesitate to post here. I take what's useful when I post and discard the rest--and sometimes, the rest turns out to be something I re-examine when I'm not feeling as defensive.

transformyself

Thank you for this Thumper! And Laurie, I love hearing your stories. Many of the folks I've seen here for a long time have amazing recovery stories. Thank you for sharing them.

fourmaggie

have YOU tried AL ANON?...that is for you and your recovery...meaning, its for friends and family of alcoholics/addictes...this would work so well for you...you are gonna love our own 12 step program...its as HONEST as you will ever get...

time to set healthy boundaries for you...

lillamy

Recovery looks different for everyone.
I have a dear friend, an RA, who is the most considerate, sweet person you'd ever meet. But she was like that before she became an A. Recovery returned her personality to her.

I think the problem you're looking at is sort of... as someone else said, falling in love with who he could be and not who he is.

The point I finally came to with my AXH was realizing that... I had to make a decision for myself and my children based on who he was right now. I couldn't make decisions based on who I was hoping he might become some day in the future. And when I looked at it that way, the man he was right now was not somebody I could imagine spending the rest of my life with.

Everyone can change. Everyone has the potential of becoming a better or worse person. The problem is, I think, when we get involved with someone based on potential. Because potential is just that. It may or may not ever happen. So it's sort of a crapshoot. An actively drinking alcoholic would have bad odds. An RA better odds. But still. You can't know for sure. Question is how much of your life you're willing to bet on it?

choublak

I take it you're looking for more of a direct yes/no answer? Unfortunately it's not as cut-and-dry as that. It depends entirely on the individual who is in recovery. Not to mention all the people who aren't alcoholics who consideration never seemed to "come to".

Amber23

I think i get what you are saying....but I am a newbie.....just starting to delve into my denials and confusions. So take me with a grain of salt. However, the beauty of a newbie is we may still have a glimmer of hope.....for right or wrong...the worst hasn't hit yet.

I too have a "great" man....it would be so much easier to leave or ignore a jerk. I think that what you mean is you see the good in him and wish to have that fully. Not in small doses, you want him "great" all around and in supportive ways..

There are so many good parts of our loved ones, the glimpses I get of that person play a large part in the reasons I stay.......(i will probably get a lot of heat for that statement)

I assume that a recovering alcoholic may still have issues unsolved from the years of dealing with issues with alcohol. Habits and a preoccupation of their own emotional etc needs first? Alcoholics are incredibly selfish, maybe not intentional but it is a common theme.

I think you are trying to get insight, like a success story or such....I post for similar, but receive little success stories and most insight is directed with little sugar coating... and honestly would have been a waste for posters to sugar coat because things are rolling with AH as predicted by the old schoolers here. As much as I hate to admit it. lol

It is hard and hopefully he will at least stay sober. Therapy may help him learn what you are asking for in the relationship.

TakingCharge999

Hi,
I have not read the whole thread but a great boyfriend is considerate. If a person is inconsiderate to the partner's feelings, he or she is not great.

Tuffgirl

This is actually very true for most of us. I know it was the reason I stayed so long. I got glimpses of who I knew he could be - it just wasn't consistent. Change isn't consistent. But it should be somewhat progressive, ya know? Two steps forward, one back on occasion?

It's the humility and willingness to admit that we still need to work on ourselves, make amends when we are wrong or out of line, and keep that progress moving in the right direction that matter.

Problem for many is: are we willing to settle for the glimpses? Or do we want something more for ourselves; someone who is consistent with their actions? Who walk their talk? Who show up?

Sure, the world is full of kinda half nice people who sometimes do what they say and make me feel good to be around them some of the time.

I want more than that. But hey, that's just my humble opinion!

transformyself

No way Dude. Not anymore, not for me. I don't see it as "hopeful," not at the age I am, not after the long years I've put in trying to believe the best in someone who is a freaking alcoholic.

That's why the program is so important to me. Jakesgirl says she's been reading material about alcoholism, meant for alcoholics. I wonder if that material talks about this being a fatal, progressive disease.

I'll leave the "hope," to younger folks with more time, or more whatever it takes. Me, I'm beaten by this disease and admit that defeat happily.

I can not, in any way shape or from, control, trick, convince, cajole, pray or wish my AH to do ANYTHING, and I sure as hell don't want to try anymore. I spent DECADES weeping quietly in the bedroom, complaining to friends, clinging to the shred of hope he tossed my way every time I'd had enough and was out the door. Tricked into taking him back, only to have this fatal, progressive disease win again and again. No money for milk for the kids, but he's sure got it for booze and cigarettes. I've watched the neighbor dads play with, teach and love their kids while AH plays video games on the couch and drinks out back because he's not allowed to drink in the house long enough.

I'm thrilled to say I'm powerless over alchohol. The only thing I can control is my own self, and making my and my kids lives better, without the alcoholic, makes me happier than anything else right now.

I just wish I hadn't stayed so long

ConeyIslandHigh

Thanks so much for this T. Perfect timing for me, today. :ghug3

theuncertainty

It's amazing how easy saying and feeling words like this are for me. As I read your post, Transformie. 'Yeah! No more!' And then in my minds eye I see a guy I went in a couple dates with last fall. And my heart whines, but I want him.

He's not an alcoholic, but recovering from his own marriage to one. There are times when he is so attentive, calling, planning and asking if I'd like to go to ____ with him. And then there are loooong silences with calls/texts unanswered. When that thought is there, I'm completely ignoring the silences, the boundary that I'd set when with AXH that I will not accept being ignored. When I stop and think about it, being ignored for rather long periods of time is a deal breaker. When I don't think about it, the temptation to settle for the glimpses is so easy to fall into.

MetalChick

I am totally confused. How are you best friends with someone for 10 years and not know these things. I know my best friends- Who is selfish, who drinks, how they treat their BF's and GF's etc...

Are you sure he isn't just being a "dude?" No offense guys, but I hear a lot of woman complain about how "he" is not considerate of "my" feelings. I know I do that to my BF, and it takes him a while to get it.

You said that he is so inconsiderate of my feelings, and has no idea how a family does for each other, and you say he does would cause others to blow up.

Can you give examples? that is so vague. What causes one person to blow up, another might not care about.

I would hesitate to give any advice in this situation without both sides of the story or more details.

I congratulate him on being sober!! Please don't make it harder on him, it is the most important thing he can do for himself.

Ursula745

What do you meant by "these things" that a family does for each other? Some "things" that people think are good, expected, or feel obligated to do can be incredibly unhealthy and codependent. Others, are ok.

What are you expecting him to do that he is not doing? There may be things you think are ok, but are unhealthy, that he really should not be taught. I'd check that out first, make sure your are ok with the healthy things. I'd let him help himself, and you help yourself, then by doing THAT, you will teach each other.

transformyself

uncertianty:

I don't mean to upset you, but this is a red flag for me. It has always meant I'm not the only person my "partner" is seeing.

Hopefully that's not your situation.

However, this thread is reminding me that when I'm at my happiest (and healthiest) is when the number one top priority for me is MY boundary. I've spent so much time spinning in confusion and dispare because I put others peoples needs and wants in front of mine, then I"m resentful and feel abandoned when my needs aren't being met.

My goal is to be alcoholic and ****** up people free long enough to put my needs and wants first without the chaos of dealing with or leaving those people. I am giving myself a little break, knowing that I did the best I could at the time, but eliminating the people who toss me slivers of what I want and need is taking up oh so much of my time right now.

For now, I'm dis-entangling from two people who gots ta go, but when that's over, I pray I'll heed red flags, keep my boundaries clear not allow people who don't respect me into my life. I want to live happy joyous and free! I've done the other long enough, it's time for something new.

Thumper

Metalchick. Your post reminded me of "two codependents - a fable". I'm on my phone or I'd link it. Anyone can google it though. It is a very accurate description of my experience.

theuncertainty

Yep, Transormie, that thought is there. I'm trying to get my head on straight with regard to him. Well, with regard to guys in general. As Coyote said, my picker is still broken. Dates are on hold until I figure out why I'm still attracted to guys who can just ignore me like that.