choublak

I came across this thread http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...alcoholic.html and there were a few posts that "spoke to me" about judgemental posts, etc., in here.

If the folks at al-anon are anything like some of the people in here, then I don't want to go, ever.

m1k3

I'm curious, what is your problem with that thread?

In addition, Al-Anon is a fellowship of people who get together to work on recovery from all the issues that come up from living with an alcoholic. The focus of the program is you, not the alcoholic. I have heard people share experiences of what they are dealing with but I have never heard anyone stand up and badmouth their qualifier. it is essentially group therapy for people with a common problem.

Also, not everyone here or at al-anon is in agreement of what is the best way to handle any particular situation. While we have the slogans to guide us, which slogan and how to apply it is up to the individual. That is why one of the most import slogans is "Take what you want and leave the rest". If there is something from someone's sharing that helps you then you are free to use it as you see fit, if not let it go, it wasn't right for you. Doesn't mean it wasn't right for someone else though.

So, perhaps you should go and see for yourself, who knows you may find something that is useful to you.

Your friend,

skippernlilg

Hi Choublak!

I read part of the thread you posted. I am not sure what you thought was judgmental, but I did see something in the thread that I haven't seen at my Al-anon meetings.

I've noticed that many of us here on SR have made the choice to go No Contact with our As for reasons of our own recovery and our own boundary setting. At my Al-anon meetings, I've noticed that the majority of the 'regulars' are actually living in the house with either a Recovering Alcoholic or an Active Alcoholic.

Those living in the house with an Active Alcoholic use the most tissue during the meetings.

That's been my observation.

None of us could possibly ever say what's best for you. We can only say what's worked for us. You get to decide what's best for you!

choublak

The part where someone said they left SR for awhile because of the judgmental posts.

skippernlilg

And they came back.

I think one even said she left awhile because she felt that she was being judgmental. Many of us here communicate with a very direct approach, which has been perceived by others as "harsh" or too much. Some people receive the information at face-value very well.

I think that when I was new to here, I felt that some of the people who posted here were blunt. I realized over time with reading and learning that gentleness comes from within ME. I have to be gentle to myself and expect the truth from everyone else here.

My perspective was that I was hurting. A.Lot. I realized over time that not only could I not control the alcoholism that made my life uncontrollable, I also could not control what other people said or did At. All. Even here. What I could trust is that everyone here comes from a place of experience and they could offer me wisdom. Most times, I found that people shed their ability to sugar-coat anything when they walked away from their own denial.

Maybe that's close to what you're finding?

I hope you find what you need within these pages, and I do hope you feel encouraged to check out the tools that have worked for many of us.

Right now, today, I'm living a success story. And I desperately want others to feel the joy I have today.

GettingBy

I can say, with total honesty, that the times when I felt most judged... it was because someone was telling me something that I knew to be true but just didn't want to hear. I can recall a post this summer where I talked about not wanting to get a divorce, and wanting to try and figure out a way to detach so AH and I could live together. The responses I got could basically be summed up to - "Well, you haven't reached your bottom yet." Where I was then - it hurt. I was pissed. Because I was trying so hard to save my marriage. I didn't like being told what to do, or that I was doing the "wrong thing."

With a little bit of time, and more experience... I "see" what they were trying to tell me. I had to learn it on my own schedule though.

And ironically, in the thread you referenced... Eightball was trying to figure out how to live happily with her AH... and those "judgemental" posts you mention, were advising her that alcoholism is progressive and there really is no way to truly live happily with an alcoholic. She had to figure it out on her own schedule... and guess what? 5 months ago she did... and seperated from her AH.


Today, by the grace of my recovery, when somebody says something that irritates me... I know that it's probably because it's something I really need to hear and give thought to. My old reaction would have been to jump to a defensive position - which never really did me much good.

Thanks for letting me share,
Shannon

m1k3

That happened because this is an open forum, you get people at all different levels of recovery and some people get upset when the hear things they don't like and some people post harsh responses when their triggers are pushed. I think we do a pretty good job of self policing people's responses and if it gets out of hand a mod will step in. As I said, a response that would not have any negative impact on someone who has been working their recovery can have a big impact on someone new, who has no recovery and who's emotions are very close to the surface.

Al-anon meetings, at least the ones I have been to, are structured completely differently. Each person is given a chance to share based on that nights topic. When you share there is no cross talk. When you are done it will be someone else's turn to share. People may occasionally reference something someone said as a point the triggered something in them but that would be as far as it goes. No one bashes their qualifier or discusses another's sharing or anything like that.

As I said, go see for yourself.

Your friend,

tryintosmile

I've left for a while - here and there - to digest what people have said to me. I think it's a long process and we can't absorb it all at once. I haven't always been able to handle what's being doled out, but I never thought it was judgemental.

The fact that people are trying to get across is that living with an A is anything but peaceful and most of us ARE looking for some sort of peace. Asking how to find that with an A is somewhat like wanting to stay and fight a war for peace.

Everyone has something important to say here - be it gentle or harsh, and in the end their intention is in our best interest. If you can't see it now, you may see it later.

This place has helped me to stay on track of where I really need to be - doing what I really need to do and I'm really slow - yet everyone has been so kind and patient with me. In fact, this site is as powerful or even moreso than Al-Anon, but the human contact is also important.

This smily is here to remind us and I believe most everyone doesn't want to attack anyone - quite the opposite

jOSE2

I learnt a big lesson going to Al-anon- and I said this to myself before going, "go with an open mind" and then hearing it on my first meeting and also hearing "Take what you like and leave the rest",There are times when I havent liked what's being said by members, and I tell myself each time I go or even come on this forum,these people are telling their story and giving their experience of their life living with an A,It may not be my story exactly,I have for myself learnt that we have our similarites with our shares and dont dwell on our differences- as in the closing prayer at my meeting group is says you may not like us all, we go for support, For me and I can only speak for me, I have become very open minded to other people views now.

Best wishes

Leaping

"Those living in the house with an Active Alcoholic use the most tissue during the meetings"

Thanks Skipper, needed to read that today. Carry on -

Cyranoak

You are reflecting yourself onto this forum and the people in it. It is your choice to avoid Alanon, but if you do the person you are hurting, and the only person you are hurting, is yourself.

If you open your mind, give Alanon a chance (and by it's very nature is different from forums in that it is face to face), and try at least six meetings your life will improve. I guarantee it.

I will say this, as somebody who has been here awhile, you appear through your posts to be unreceptive, argumentative, and somewhat holier than thou. That is what is driving much of the responses you are getting, and it won't be helpful to you in an Alanon meeting either.

We do care, but at some point you are going to get exactly what you give and you reached that point here (and relatively quickly).

Take care, take what you want and leave the rest,

Cyranoak

jOSE2

Choublack,
If I could make a suggestion,-not advise
That you see Al-anon working at its best yesterday on postings for Tryintosmile. Look at all the stickies etc! suggestions given to Tryingtosmile.

If I'm not wrong she has a more positive frame of mind today

Best wishes

Panther

Choublak -

There are judgmental people where ever you go. You really cannot escape them. And for anyone to say they have never been judgmental, or have never seen any judgmental posts, just shows you the extent that denial can hide things.

Have I been judgmental? Yes, unfortunately. Have I been annoyed and irritated at being judged? Yes and yes.

It is the flaw of humanity that we think we know what is best for someone else. On the one hand it makes us feel important having this knowledge and on the other, it allows us to focus on "fixing" someone else's problems so we don't have to focus on our own. So not only do we get to feel superior, but we also get to escape our problems! Now you can see why so many people choose to judge! It has benefits.

But on the flip side, judgment is hurtful and confusing to the person being judged. Not only do they feel offended and belittled, but they also do not feel heard or understood. And really the only thing that helps someone is truly listening. Because you can't live their life for them, when are still trying to figure out your own.

Yes there are judgmental posts here. Some of them have been mine. I'm not proud of them. But I think if you look hard you will find that there are some people who have moved past a place of judgment and they know that all you truly want is to feel heard.



Panther

Pelican

, Brilliant! Thank you for this


I have attended Alanon meetings in different communities over the past 3 years.

What I found consistently: understanding, caring, sober, patient, and loving people.

After living with an active alcoholic, I needed the time away (one hour) to listen without interruption, speak without interruption, the right to not speak on sensitive subjects, the right to speak on sensitive subjects, and the right to be respected as someone of value. I needed that kind of support and found it at Alanon.

Oh, I also found Sober Hugs at some meetings. Those were needed, too!

jOSE2

Dear Choublak,

I have been looing at yesterdays postings, and came across yours again, and looked at my response for you-you mentioned that your ABF had called you Judgemental and my response was dont stick with that word from him too long in your head its another Hooker they use.
Dont mean to be pedantic,but could it be that your taking what he said out of prespective on forum.

If this has caused offensive sorry,but this is how I got living with alcoholic,its a crazy bizzarre world -I forgot who said what to me,thought everyone was treating me badly,I must state I did figure it out eventually and it took me a long time to get my head on straight thinking tracks again.
Best wishes

choublak

No offense taken, I actually had been thinking that about a few particular members on this board for quite some time.

JACKRUSSELLGIRL

I have had my fair share of responses that I felt were insensitive and down right rude at times. I truly do not take any of them personally anymore and take the ones that help and leave the rest.

It is hard, in the beginning, not to get pi$$ed off at some of the responses we can get but I can honestly say that pretty much everyone on this board has lived in Crazyland with an A and just trying to save you from more pain. It rarely gets any better if they do not seek help. The disease is progressive and will get worse much worse. I have been with mine for 25 years and still trying to split ( a whole other story)! He is the type of A that starts and stops and was actually sober for many years until he started 7 years ago. I can tell you one thing, when he picked up again, it was like he never stopped drinking. It got bad pretty quickly.

Please do not get discouraged and keep posting because we really do CARE!! Posting will help you through the maze of Alcoholism and things will become clear to you. This will help you get better and move onto a better life for yourself. Living with an active A is no way to live. You deserve better and so does your A. He deserves recovery too. :ghug3:ghug3

choublak

But I have said numerous times that ABF is seeking help and people either ignore that statement or try to argue with me that he's not serious about it. The only advice some people on here know how to give is that of "leave and never look back". That and to read "Codependent No More". I read that book and fail to understand the hype. Sorry.

skippernlilg

Do you feel like you need to defend your ABF? Is he now a RABF?

Were you able to recognize anything familiar in "Codependent No More"?

My perspective is that you're clearly hurting, and I am observing that you seem really focused on what your ABF (RABF?) is doing or not doing, and it's not making you any happier today to figure him out, or not.

My 'advice' is to focus on you. I don't know if 'leaving and never looking back' is the right thing for any person. What I do know is that those people who did leave and never looked back are ok today.

What I also know is that it wasn't until my RABF was out of my home that I could work on some real recovery for myself. I also have hope that one day we can make our lives work together at some point. I realize that's a risky move, and I haven't made a decision on that as of yet. I am giving ourselves some time in recovery before I make any relationship decisions.

So, what was your take-away from having read "Codependent No More"? The reason I ask is that if it didn't speak to you the way it spoke to some of us here, there may be some other resources we can point you to that click better for you.

LaTeeDa

Not trying to argue with you, but "seeking help" while still drinking pretty much shows he's not serious about it...

L