AllAboutheGirls

Dear Choublak,

I came to SR a couple months after leaving my stbxah. I was raw and confused and depressed and couldn't get my head straight. I was living in Crazy Town. I was verbally and physically abused for ten years by a drunk that I was truly in love with. I just loved him and that's why I stayed. Before I found SR I didn't realize that the emotions I had were because of him and his alcoholism. I was too beaten down. I read everything I could find weather I agreed or not. What I found here is Peace. I have heard my story retold here countless times, maybe with a twist, but it is MY story. I have found comfort in the words of wisdom here, from those who walked before me, and made my own choices for my future. Had it not been for SR I don't know if I would be on the path I am today. I don't agree with some responses from everyone but I can just scroll down til I find something to help my recovery.

I can tell you that did not work too well at Al Anon. I did feel judged and couldn't get away from the comments. I went to a couple different meetings but I did not fit in. Maybe I could find one that works but you know what? I'm tired of trying to fit in with a group of people! Haven't we all been through enough? I have been to hell and climbing my way back. SR works for me and right now and I can shut it down if I need to.

So back to SR, PLEASE don't ask anyone here to suger coat their lives. This is brutal honest truth that forced me to face my own issues. Without the opinions of the others here how do we find our own. I was told to be brief and get to the point by that jerk in my life far too many times. I don't want to feel that way ever again. So where should I go if everyone can't speak freely here. I'm sorry if you need to get defensive, I've been there too, that's when I keep my mouth shut (fingers off the keyboard) and just listen if I want or need to.

You need to find what works for you to help in your decisions about your man. I wish you the best and just keep reading. If you don't like the answers than don't ask the questions. Just keep reading here anyway, you will eventually find your truth even if it is the hard way. You have to make your own decisions in the end.

I offer you joy today,

Your SR friend

LaTeeDa

Putting your unsolicited psychoanalysis of me aside, I did not claim that a sick person does not need help ever. Only that I am humble enough to believe that I may not have been endowed with the special power to help them. I once thought I was, but that was my ego.

L

CXR

I read the subject post, and this one, again. I'd like to offer some additional possibilities. First, email, chat-rooms, BB's, such as this, are a "dead medium" so to speak. It is very hard to collapse intention and delivery, yet it is easy to do so at the same time. Labeling comments as judgmental is also very easy to fall victim to, especially in this type of environment. Second, I tend to take for granted that people's "advice" or comments, here, come with the best intention. Perhaps that's me being foolish or naive, but that's my feeling. Sometimes it is blunt. Perhaps cold. Sometimes it's not what we want to hear or not the quick answer/solution. It's often not what we are looking for.

However, how many of us were looking for this disease? Rhetorical and philosophical question. It's where we are. Where we've come from. Some people "come off" the way they do because that's a byproduct of where they've been. Their struggles, trials, tribulations, survival. It's the way they function and detach.

In short, the comments, to me, are wisdom. Take what you like and leave the rest. All the best.

m1k3

Panther, you may have answered this before but do you attend Al-anon meetings?

Thanks,

KittyP

Then why not actually write that instead of writing something which can easily be, and often has been, construed as judgemental bullying? Surely if you know that a particular way of phrasing a sentiment regularly means that your sentiment is lost, and you know a better way of phrasing that sentiment that leaves the reader in no doubt, then you would just use the latter phrasing.

Except they are not the only two choices. They were the only two choices that you had. You have no way of knowing what way things may work out for other people. I was told repeatedly, and often in a way that felt damn nasty, that those were my only two choices. They weren't. I listened to my own instincts (eventually) and chose a different path. One that surprisingly quickly brought me to my desired destination. I now have a happy healthy husband and an utterly fantastic marriage.

Addicts and the loved ones of addicts share many experiences. It's not my life anymore but I can read through the "Normie" thread and nod my head in recognition at about 2/3s of the posts, probably more. But it doesn't change the fact that my husband is not anyone else's and I am not them. What doesn't work for one person might be the best thing that ever happened to someone else.

My honest opinion is that we know deep down what's got a good chance of working in our own situations. We all have instincts that can usually be relied upon, but the long periods of our own denial before we face up to the reality of our loved one's drinking has trained us to ignore them. The best thing anyone who is still struggling can do is to take the time to work out how to listen to them again.

LaTeeDa

The fact is, I've been a member of the board for six years. I've used just about every "phrasing" I could think of. If someone is not ready to hear the truth or think about their own part in the situation, they will see it as "judgemental bullying." I have no control over others reactions. Just as you have no control over how I choose to "phrase" my ESH. Peace.

L

MsPINKAcres

Prayers of peace, guidance and direction as you decide what is best for you and your life ~

I pray that you are able to use all the tools of recovery to help you on your path to a Happier, Healthier YOU ~ You deserve it! (we all do!)

PINK HUGS,
Rita

KittyP

That's a massive cop out. Of course you can control how other people understand you, by being clear as to your meaning. It's why we developed language skills and it's not that difficult. Nor is it difficult to clarify your meaning when somebody misconstrues you. Using phrasing such as "what you you get out of it" when you know it is often misconstrued in a way that other's find hurtful is either idiotic, pointlessly stubborn or deliberate bullying. I'm honestly not sure which in this case but which ever it is, it's still an appallingly disgusting way to behave toward people who are looking for help.

As for this; 'If someone is not ready to hear the truth or think about their own part in the situation, they will see it as "judgemental bullying."'

What does this even mean? What situation? What part in what? I'm an observer in this thread/ongoing discussion. I'm not the one who that phrase was directed at. But as an interested 3rd party I can see exactly why the person it was directed at could feel judged harshly or bullied. I'm not sure what "part" observers play in whatever "situation" you are on about, so if that comment was directed at me (which your use of a quotation of my words suggests it was) then I'm certainly not thinking about it. But it's nothing to do with not being ready for some blinding truth, it's to do with it not making any sense.

m1k3

Kitty, are you involved in Al-Anon? To be honest it can make a big difference in how you read what people are posting. People who are regularly attending Al-anon and working a recovery tend to phrase things in a certain way and to use slogans or variations on the slogans and sayings that are part of the Al-anon culture.

This can be misinterpreted by those who are not part of the culture. Things like "mean what you say, say what you mean but don't say it mean". This can lead to a lot of rather blunt statements that may be taken as mean but are simply someone stating their ES&H.

Another BIG one is "take what you want and leave the rest". If you do not like or agree with what someone has to say, share or post you have the option of leaving it behind. Sometimes people are sharing from a perspective that is different that yours and sometimes they are just venting. All of this needs to be taken into consideration as well.

Different people are at different stages of recovery, if in recovery at all. Things that would have bothered me in the past don't have the same effect any more.

Just a little something to think about.

Your friend,

Chino

I had this really long thing typed out but figured what the hell, just cut to the chase. Every time I took offense with someone's comments, it's because I chose that. It's a choice to make or take things personally, but I had been doing that for so long I thought it was normal.

With therapy and these 12 steps, the only opinion that matters to me anymore is mine. If I ask others for input, I do have the gift of discernment (take what I need and leave the rest). I have to live with all my decisions, I own them, and no blaming others or whining about it if things don't turn out the way I want.

m1k3

No, you can't. The only thing you can control is how you react to what is going on around you and your attitudes. You can't control other people, places and things. Ever. Not even a little.

Your friend,

KittyP

I was for a longish time (a little over 18 months, in numerous groups, in a couple of countries) but as nice as many of the people I met there were, it was very much not for me. I found it to go very much against my instincts and the more I worked the programme the worse I felt and the the worse my life got.

I also never "got on" with the slogan side of things. Too often I saw people alter the context of somebody's share just so they could fit it into something which suited some slogan or other that they then quoted. I'd often sit there absolutely baffled, trying to work out how they had fitted one scenario to a particular slogan. After a while I started asking the person who quoted the slogan after the meeting how they felt such slogan fitted with the story they had just heard when it didn't seem at all relevant and I was almost always met with another slogan which explained nothing to me. I often felt like number six waking up in the village.* Don't get me wrong, slogan's can be very useful and I'm not adverse to using them myself but only when they are 100% in context and there are very few complex situation, like living with an alcoholic, which can be distilled into slogans.

And in any case even if the slogan is a 100% perfect response, if I said it to the person I was talking to, and they didn't understand it, as it was not a phrase they had heard before and misconstrued me. For example, if I told someone who was not a native English speaker to "**** or get off the pot" and they thought I was being very rude it would then behoove me to explain that I was telling them to act or move on, not swing the conversation around to my interest in their bowel movements. We don't exist in a vacuum, if we upset someone unintentionally, we should acknowledge that and explain our true meaning, not dismiss them as being at fault because they don't understand our slogans. Otherwise, what the hell is the point in talking to them at all?

*Anyone who doesn't understand this reference should look to their own part in why they don't watch 1960s British spy fiction with elements of science fiction, allegory and psychological drama.

fedup3

hasn't this disease beaten us up enough already that now we're doing it to each other?

Peace and grace to us all!

m1k3

This is OT but it has been a long time since I watched that.

Thank you for answering, I got what I was looking for. Information.

LaTeeDa

My meaning is "What are you getting out of this relationship?" I learned in therapy that there is always a payoff. People stay in harmful situations because they are getting something out of it, plain and simple.

If you find that "appallingly disgusting," that's on you, not me. I found it very helpful in my recovery.

Trying to control how people communicate, what they type, and how they participate in an internet forum is no different than trying to control an alcoholic's behavior. It's the very definition of codependence. But, then again, that's what this forum is all about.

Peace. I'm done with this thread.

L

wellnowwhat

KittyP: "what are you getting out of this relationship" is a great example of what I was referring to earlier in my post when I ask myself: "did they say that" or "did I think they said that"?

We often talk, at length, about the person that brought us here and put our focus on them. "what are you getting out of this relationship" means exactly that, or paraphrased "what happens when you focus on you and not your AH". If I think it says "you should leave", I am reading something that is not contained in the question and maybe I should ask myself why?

I know that when I first came here I was reading all sorts of things that were not on the page and getting mightily offended. Now that I am feeling healthier about myself my skin seems to be thicker and I don't project sentiment into postings that I once did. Although, sometimes I do have to walk away from the computer and come back in a better frame of mind to do this.

Sending you kind thoughts.

Seren

Hi everyone,

Since this thread has completely outlived any original purpose. I am now closing it.

I will remind you all once again that any personal discussion you would like to have should be contained with private messages. Arguing with one another within a thread takes away from the point being raised or question being asked by the OP.

Please take some time to back away from the keyboard and help others who are new, hurting, and need your support.

HG