Panther

Yes, that is typical. Addicts generally go in and out of denial as they try to cope with their growing addiction. They also bargain with themselves, such as "I'll only drink in a social setting with other people around (or at least one person around)", "I'll only drink beer", "I'll move to another city", etc etc. It's hard for people who have never been addicted to understand this type of logic. And that is because the logic doesn't make sense. For me I understand it because I have been addicted and I know that addiction and denial go hand in hand.

From my point of view I wasn't lying. I really believed that I wasn't addicted.

I cannot emphasize enough how important it is for you to educate yourself. You educating yourself will greatly impact the outcome for whatever happens between you and your fiance.

Panther

TakingCharge999

Hi Autumn,

Trust your feelings. They are a warning.

Red flag.

Because he has drank for a long long time already. That is how tolerance is built.

He is self destructive. He will take you with him if you let him.

He is an alcoholic. He will continue to be. It is chronic. And progressive if untreated.

He seems to be ok ignoring the elephant in the room indeed.
Are you ok living a life of appearances, too?


I would bet on him drinking this or more when you are not around.

Why do you trust him more than you trust yourself?

"Goodbye". What good can someone like that bring to your life??? Drama? watch reality shows. Lies? politicians can fit the bill...


The only mistake would be to betray yourself.

In year 2011 you don't need a man to become a mom, there are other options.

Have you thought about how the baby's life will be like with a father like this?


You don't "HAVE TO" do anything. You are in charge of your life and if you need more time you can have it. If you want to break up you can break up. If you are already feeling rushed and pressured, to me that is yet another huge RED FLAG.


To me it seems some men tend to push for marriage because then it is much more difficult for a woman to leave.

Alcoholics don't have relationships, they take hostages.

AutumnBeauty

Thank you everyone for your feedback. Yes I've been in therapy a few months now. I started going because of his drinking and because I wondered what dating someone who drinks so heavily says about me; I obviously have some issues that need improvement.

Serenity8

Autumn, has your therapist recommended attending al-anon meetings? I believe they would really be beneficial.

Also, I have 2 young children by my ex husband. We almost divorced 4 years into our marriage, pre kids and instead I stayed. I was 31 at the time and he promised to get help. We had a good couple of years and had 2 kids when I was 34 and 37, but somewhere in there he spiraled and it got really bad. Now I am divorced and *I* am happier to be away from him and his addictions/compulsions and his chaos, but I can't tell you how hard it is on my kids to be a product of divorce. I mourn the loss of the "happy childhood" that THEY should have, with both their parents healthy and functioning.

Panther

And just to respond to what some of the others are saying. I think God gave us a heart and a mind for a reason. If we only use one without the other, we become unbalanced. It shouldn't be all mind and no heart, or all heart and no mind. I think it is only by using both that there is any possibility of sanity.

Panther

KittyCopes

Someone said "he might love you but he has to protect the drinking first.". This was and is one of the hardest things I've had to process in facing this family disease.

My H is an alcoholic. We have been married for a year and a half. He's dabbled with recovery a few times, and is currently in a situation I truly hope sticks, and seems in a good place.

Six months ago I was being lied to every single day. I found bottles (empty and full) hidden in our house. I caught him red-handed sneaking out to his car to drink. I could not believe the lengths he would go to to hide the drinking.

We had a very honest and open relationship with no secrets, and he destroyed my trust by lying over and over again even when I begged him to just be honest with me.

I seriously considered leaving. I finally told him he needed to come clean and face this problem before it destroyed us.

He told his employer he had a problem. He is voluntarily in a monitored program that has him going to 4 AA meetings each week, seeing a counselor, and submitting to random alcohol and drug tests. There is not a drop of alcohol in our house. I have a huge sense of relief even though he and I were both scared by what could happen taking this step ( he is a lawyer).

Your fiancé is in the military. Is there any comparable program for recovery? It sounds like he does have a problem, and it will only get worse. My AH went from seeming in control to definitely NOT in control in a matter of months.

Also, go to Al-Anon no matter what he does. It will help immensely with your own feelings. If you aren't ready to go to a meeting, pick up a copy of "Courage to Change" which is a great daily affirmation book and lays out the Al-Anon principles.

No matter what, get help for you. Love is not enough, unfortunately.

Kitty

LexieCat

Basically, it's because most of us DO try to control. It's a coping mechanism. The problem is, it doesn't work, because we can't control other people, and many situations.

But just because they are correct about our attempts to control doesn't mean that THEIR problem isn't with alcohol. Our attempts to "control" don't make someone else drink. It's just a way to deflect the focus off the drinking.

Letting go of the need to control other people is one of the great tools to achieving peace and happiness for ourselves.

wellnowwhat

And just to respond to what some of the others are saying. I think God gave us a heart and a mind for a reason. If we only use one without the other, we become unbalanced. It shouldn't be all mind and no heart, or all heart and no mind. I think it is only by using both that there is any possibility of sanity. Panther

I agree, to a point. My problem is I can rationally list all the reasons to do or not do something, but my heart will list one "because I love him" and it wins. So sometimes I do need to listen to my head and not my heart. And yes, it does feel crazy!

I was going to say "if", but the hopeful part of me thinks "when" they are more in sync or balanced, life will be so much easier.

And I don't ever want to be hard-headed (some may say I already am!) or heartless.

masuhanley

Your story is OUR story; every one of us on this forum. We all entered relationships with our A's desperately loving them, wanting to believe their words, wanting to "help" them.
It ends up consuming your mind, body and soul. It is not worth it.

I know that you love your man and don't want to lose him. But you will lose yourself ultimately if you pursue a long-term relationship with an alcoholic.

Please learn from our stories here on this forum.

Peace.

Maureen

SoloMio

Fear of the future is the worst reason to stay. Period. So if you're staying because you're afraid your biological clock will wind down, just scratch that off your list of reasons you should stay--immediately.

I, too, see many familiar lines that you've quoted--I've heard them all as well. You sound like you are really a very thoughtful, introspective person the way you've handled the conversation with your BF. Sometimes we see "reason" in their responses and our hearts pull us into that place where we want to believe that what they're saying, but look underneath the words and let your own self-protective instincts guide you, not the illusion of reason.

kiki5711

I wonder if he's drinking on purpose so as to NOT to pass the PT?

But at the same time he doesn't want to be leave the military with a bad record.

It's extremely stressful job being in the military. I assume they all drink out there because it's so stressful and the only relief they feel is when they're together drinking, forgetting for those few hours what they have to face every day.

AutumnBeauty

No, she hasn't recommended al-anon but I'm open to going.

Just out of curiosity....what caused the spiral in your ex-ah? Did the good couple of years occur after he got help? Were those years so good that you or he thought the problem was totally overcome? Do you think the help he got just wore off or did something stressful occur to trigger his relapse?

AutumnBeauty

I'm fairly certain that is not the case for him. His military career is everything to him! He banking on staying 20+ years and getting a retirment package. And so far he has had a VERY CUSHY experience in the military. He has never been sent oversees (not yet) and his MOS is in administration. He does desk work from 8am-4p. I'm sure he has a lot of responsibility in that position, but I don't sense that its stressful.

Actually, his millitary career does give me concern but for the opposite logic. What you say is true, but my fiance has not exerienced that kind of stress yet. Perhaps some of his military buddies began drinking to cope. But he drinks because its fun and the military provides drinking buddies. I'm afraid that if he is ever sent oversees or gains some major stress in his life, then he'll really have a reason to drink....and that may cause a major downward spiral. He keeps telling me that will never happen....that they aren't allowed to drink oversees....and that even if he gets sent oversees he won't see anything bad because he'll be doing administration work at a desk. But I'm not convinced.

SSIL75

I don't think it's possible for someone to stay sober unless they fully accept they are an alcoholic. I agree that your fiance IS an alcoholic (not becoming one).

I have been thinking lately about what might have happened had my husband given me an ultimatum when we were engaged. I'd probably have reacted exactly like your fiance. It took another 5 years of drinking for me to finally accept reality.

I honestly think being in love with an alcoholic kind of sucks (and I'm an alcoholic). But being marrying one who is in denial is really risky, IMO. Best of luck to you!

AutumnBeauty

To my knowledge, neither of my fiance's parents are alcoholics. I don't know anything about his grandparents other than that his paternal grandparents got divorced when their children were young. His paternal grandmother remarried to a man who was abusive. I've never asked if he has relative who are alcoholics and at this point I'm not sure he'd tell me if there were.

Again..what caused him to change so drastically in a matter of months? What was he like before you married him or before he got so bad?
I'm suspect the military does offer a program for alcoholism. I'll ask him about it. I suspect he wouldn't be willing to go though - he is convinced he doesn't have a problem and can just quit. Also, I bet it would reflect poorly on his military record.

Eddiebuckle

Autumn,

As an alcoholic who has been sober for a little over 18 months, the thing that concerns me most about your situation is that you made your point clear with your fiancee twice in two years. His explanation that he "didn't know you were serious and now it's going to be different" just doesn't hold water. I lived with my girlfriend for 15 years and when our relationship was on the brink she wanted us to go to counseling: I refused. I refused not because I didn't love her, but that I knew any counselor worth the paper their diploma was printed on would confront me about my drinking. It took me three more years of serious drinking (1.75 liters of vodka every other day plus a bottle of wine every night) before I was willing to do what was necessary to quit. And to quit, I had to make sobriety my first priority - every day for the rest of my life. That kind of a commitment is not something any human can put on another, it simply doesn't work that way.

He may be able to do this for the sake of your relationship for awhile, but until he comes to the conclusion that he needs to do so to survive, it likely will not stick. At best, he will avoid drinking because he fears you will leave him, and resent you at his core every time he has the urge to drink. At worst, he will drink as he wishes and feel justified in hiding it from you, or fighting with you over it.

You asked how long was enough to be reasonably sure that he has this under control. Many in AA recommend that newly sober people avoid new romantic relationships for their first year of sobriety. I would use that as my benchmark. But even that year is meaningless if "his" sobriety is really yours. At this juncture it's entirely yours.

wellnowwhat

Again..what caused him to change so drastically in a matter of months? What was he like before you married him or before he got so bad?
Why does this matter? Do you think by knowing you can avoid this situation? It happened because he was an alcoholic. They do that.

He keeps telling me that will never happen....that they aren't allowed to drink oversees...
I don't know if he needs his PT to get posted overseas, but could this be a reason for failing?

To my knowledge, neither of my fiance's parents are alcoholics....
This might be a contributing factor, but not the only reason. My AH is the only alcoholic grandchild of an alcoholic grandfather. No other alcoholics in the family. I think the term "family disease" used was referring to the carnage alcoholism has on the family of the alcoholic.

I hear in your questions how badly you wish this wasn't happening. It is. I am sorry that it is.

I am sorry if my responses are blunt. Your story resonates with me. I wish I had enough information to back away before we married.

skippernlilg

I have a biological clock story. From my previous marriage, I have one son. I always wanted my son to have a sibling. That has been my dream as far back as I can remember. I met XABF when my son was a baby and we became a couple. Seemed things were going in just the right direction in my mid-30s to think about that family I'd dreamed of.

The disease of alcoholism progressed to the point that we would've been unable to conceive at all.

Recently, I found out I have had a heart problem that would've likely killed me if I became pregnant again.

HP knew what s/he was doing. No more babies!!

And just because it didn't work out the way I thought, I am able to work with other children in my community and the timing has been perfect. Just because I pictured things one way didn't mean another picture couldn't be more beautiful. And it is. I just had to see what the world had to offer, and let things unfold, instead of making plans that were destined for sadness and despair.

As you know, failing PT tests in the military does not bode well for his career there. Discharge is a reality for those guys. Even the desk jockeys have to pass!

LifeRecovery

AutumnBeauty-

Oh goodness how your story pulls on my heart strings. I suspect because it is so close to mine, but in a slightly different order.

I married my exAH when I was 28 after knowing him just shy of two years. The first year we dated I hardly saw him drink at all, never mind drink to the point of inebriation. He told some stories from his younger days though that let me know alcohol was a part of his life.

He graduated from school, and we went to a graduation party and he got drunk (there were a lot of other drunk people there). I did not think anything of it.

That next year though drinking to get drunk increased. He got drunk the night before his job interview, my high school reunion (in a different state), on a trip out of town together. I was engaged though with plans to get married. I loved him, and though I had concerns I was addressing them with a counselor and trying to take care of myself the best I could. I did not understand the progressive nature of the disease and kept thinking that the first year together was the "real" him. He was drunk at our wedding.

We got married and within two weeks he got so drunk one night that he punched in a window, kicked our dog and broke a camera. Three weeks later intoxicated again he fell on his head and threatened suicide. The next day he always thought there was a problem, but by a few days later felt I was making too big a deal of it. I knew there was a problem (took me long enough), but I was just married, just bought a house etc and did not know how to get out. I had a lot of people tell me that a relationship takes two and I needed to look at my part in it. As a result I did not really talk about the alcohol use any longer.

I decided then that I could not bring children into the world in that kind of environment, unless he chose recovery. I was able to tell him that.

Fast forward five years (and a number of drinking episodes later), and he is having an affair, because I have a differing opinion about his alcohol use and I don't want kids.

A year later, divorced and in my own place I have come to a couple of conclusions (I am 34). I think I do want kids, but I am grateful that I did not have them in the situation I was in. There are other options for having kids that I can explore if/when I am ready.

Also that I did not cause his drinking, could not control his drinking, and could not cure his drinking. A number of things have come out in the last year, and I realized I no longer have to defend his drinking or not say anything to keep peace in the house.

I went for a physical the other day, my blood pressure is down 20points both numbers (it was not high before), I have lost weight without trying (now in a healthy range), and I am not living with chronic anxiety any longer. I sleep through the night for example.

I wish that he had gotten some recovery and help, but that is not mine to make decisions about. I am working on being able to pray for him and his wellbeing, but taking control of what I do have control over...myself.

Thanks for this post, it is really helping me to clear some of my own feelings out.

Cyranoak

The one thing you must acknowledge and cannot indulge with denial or hope is that he is an alcoholic and he cannot stop drinking unless he can accept that and begin a program of recovery.

Until then, you'll just be getting what you've already gotten. Please, at the very least, be honest with yourself. I don't want to watch yet another woman come on this board, get great guidance and truth, then blow it all off and ruin her life further. It's getting old.

Cyranoak