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blamed for his lying

Old 03-19-2011, 06:41 PM
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blamed for his lying

After a full day of passive aggressive, snide, patronizing behavior by AH (bc he was at the house for D3's bday party), he left FINALLY but not before telling me the following:

"I haven't felt as distant from you as I do now ever before and I think that my difficulty being honest with you is due to self-preservation. The way you treat me is really hurtful and maybe if that changed I'd be able to be honest with you".

I tried to not show that this hurt me but I have a bad poker face and burst into tears which was what he wanted.

I am angry, hurt, sad, frustrated and tired of his mind games.

I don't have a babysitter so I can't go to an al anon mtg tonight so I am posting here bc I am sad and hurting...
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Old 03-19-2011, 06:50 PM
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So sorry that you're hurting. They have a way of doing that to us.

Here's a hug.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:01 PM
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I'm really sorry that happened to you.

Alcoholics/addicts will do anything to avoid taking responsibility for their own actions - including emotional assault.

Do you realize how ridiculous his statement is, though? If we had half the power over them that they claim we do, would we use it to be lied to, made fun of, yelled at, abused, neglected and ignored? Of course not.

He is saying whatever he imagines will hurt the most. If he is feeling distant from you - who moved? He did - by choosing addiction and mental illness over and over again. Stay strong - we are here for you.
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Old 03-19-2011, 07:10 PM
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You've done nothing wrong. If we were powerful enough to cause them to drink and do all the tings that go along with it, then we'd be powerful enough to get them to stop.....

...but we just aren't.

I'm sorry that you are feeling bad this evening. Sending hugs and good thoughts! I hope your precious little one had a great party!!!!
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:38 PM
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CLASSIC!

Classic "projection", where they project their own bad behavior on us. I've seen it countless times.

I was told just the other day that her lying about drinking was no different than me finding the bottle of wine in the back seat, poorly hidden. How is it the same? It's not.

Just because they speak it, does not make it so.

You can never reason with an actively drinking alcoholic, as they are unreasonable.

You can never have an honest discussion with someone who is dishonest.


They seem to have no "filter". They say what ever pops into their mind. Mine calls this "brutally honest" and often thinks it an admirable quality. I call it "thoughtless" and think it offensive, rude, and selfish.

Does your man sound "thoughtless"?
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Old 03-19-2011, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by zrx1200R View Post
CLASSIC!

You can never reason with an actively drinking alcoholic, as they are unreasonable.

You can never have an honest discussion with someone who is dishonest.


They seem to have no "filter". They say what ever pops into their mind. Mine calls this "brutally honest" and often thinks it an admirable quality. I call it "thoughtless" and think it offensive, rude, and selfish.
Yes, yes and yes! Develop a thick skin - this doesn't stop even when they stop drinking...this is a long time learned defense mechanism that has to be unlearned. I call it "immaturity".
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Old 03-20-2011, 06:00 AM
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"I haven't felt as distant from you as I do now ever before and I think that my difficulty being honest with you is due to self-preservation. The way you treat me is really hurtful and maybe if that changed I'd be able to be honest with you".
Translation:
I am hurting. Hurt people.. HURT people.. and I want you to hurt too. I have no tools to control this behaviour, HALT is just something border guards say.

I feel like you have detached from me and I am going to make you feel this way too. I am feeling lost and lonely and want you to feel the way I do.

I have pushed you away, but I am going to make you think this is because of your behaviour. I have lied to you, by act and/or omission, but I am not able or willing to take responsibility for my actions and so I am going to project this onto you. I am going to take the stuff on my side of the street and throw it onto yours. I expect YOU to take responsibility for it and do everything in your power to clean it up.

I am doing nothing wrong here. My actions are as a direct consequence of yours. I believe what I am doing is fine and you are doing it all wrong. If you smarten up your act, then maybe I might.. but don't count on it.

Tx
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:55 AM
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Sorry you were hurt by his statement--but to me, having heard this kind of thing so often (and even having SAID it, myself), it made me laugh.

Seriously, consider the absurdity. "Sorry, officer, I was only speeding because you have these absurd speed limits that obviously should not apply to me when I'm in a hurry. If you didn't have the speed limits I wouldn't have to break the law."

Yeah, that works. I'm gonna try that the next time I get pulled over.

It helps a lot when you start reducing these kinds of ridiculous statements to their logical absurd conclusion.

He lies to you because he wants to keep drinking. Period.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by LexieCat View Post
Sorry you were hurt by his statement--but to me, having heard this kind of thing so often (and even having SAID it, myself), it made me laugh.

Seriously, consider the absurdity.
I have to admit, I laughed a little too. My ex tried something like this on me ONCE. I laughed in his face so hard it acually made him mad. But he never pulled that crap again.
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Old 03-20-2011, 08:54 AM
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After a full day of passive aggressive, snide, patronizing behavior by AH (bc he was at the house for D3's bday party), he left FINALLY but not before telling me the following:

"I haven't felt as distant from you as I do now ever before and I think that my difficulty being honest with you is due to self-preservation. The way you treat me is really hurtful and maybe if that changed I'd be able to be honest with you".

So, he chose his daughter's birthday party to spend the day treating the mother of his child with hateful contempt? Yep, I have been there. It sucks.
If he is feeling distant, how about getting distant for real?
Please spend as little time as possible with him, he has no regard for you or your children.
A birthday party for god's sake.
But, for alcoholics, this is what happens. The world is his stage. You and your children are props. Maybe extras.
I am speaking as a recovering alcoholic here too.
He wants you to cry and feel hurt. Is that what marriage is about?
Took me two tries, and when I got sober, I figured the answer was no.

I hope you feel better today.
any cake leftover? I love cake.

:ghug3
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wicked View Post
But, for alcoholics, this is what happens. The world is his stage. You and your children are props. Maybe extras.

Very helpful reminder for me; thank you for writing this, wicked.

Wanttobehealthy: I could have written something just like that about many exchanges with AH over the past months. I hurt for the hurt you feel, and I can relate even more keenly than you might suspect: my AH pulled a kid's birthday party stunt on me as well. God forbid it actually be about the child's special day. Alcoholism is a regular show-stealer, it seems. Such a bewildering, strange delusion.

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Old 03-20-2011, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by tallulah View Post
Translation:
I am hurting. Hurt people.. HURT people.. and I want you to hurt too. I have no tools to control this behaviour, HALT is just something border guards say.

I feel like you have detached from me and I am going to make you feel this way too. I am feeling lost and lonely and want you to feel the way I do.

I have pushed you away, but I am going to make you think this is because of your behaviour. I have lied to you, by act and/or omission, but I am not able or willing to take responsibility for my actions and so I am going to project this onto you. I am going to take the stuff on my side of the street and throw it onto yours. I expect YOU to take responsibility for it and do everything in your power to clean it up.

I am doing nothing wrong here. My actions are as a direct consequence of yours. I believe what I am doing is fine and you are doing it all wrong. If you smarten up your act, then maybe I might.. but don't count on it.

Tx

This translation actually made me shudder. No wonder it makes me crazy. It *is* crazy.

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Old 03-20-2011, 05:07 PM
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Translation:
I am hurting. Hurt people.. HURT people.. and I want you to hurt too. I have no tools to control this behaviour, HALT is just something border guards say.

I feel like you have detached from me and I am going to make you feel this way too. I am feeling lost and lonely and want you to feel the way I do.

I have pushed you away, but I am going to make you think this is because of your behaviour. I have lied to you, by act and/or omission, but I am not able or willing to take responsibility for my actions and so I am going to project this onto you. I am going to take the stuff on my side of the street and throw it onto yours. I expect YOU to take responsibility for it and do everything in your power to clean it up.

I am doing nothing wrong here. My actions are as a direct consequence of yours. I believe what I am doing is fine and you are doing it all wrong. If you smarten up your act, then maybe I might.. but don't count on it.
Today we had round 2 of this and he did exactly what you describe. I made it clear that I am moving fwd with a divorce and limited my contact with him as much as possible- Just stuck to the facts. He finally broke me (or I let it happen rather) and was NASTY and MEAN and CRUEL but in all these subtle ways that I can't even pin point or describe. I saw it for what it was-- he's hurting, he's mad that the status quo is changing (I am not just believing the words he feeds me and instead am saying like a broken record over and over that actions count, not words) and so he is getting as mean as possible to make me hurt like he does. I am TIRED of my kids seeing me sad. I am TIRED of my 5 yr old telling him he is mean and having H say to her "I was talking to Mommy, not you" as if that makes it better...

He is totally using the girls as props as you say... And it is shocking and sad all in one to hear that others have had their kids bdays turn into nightmares just like D3's did--
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Old 03-20-2011, 05:16 PM
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So, he chose his daughter's birthday party to spend the day treating the mother of his child with hateful contempt?
Yes. This is the same man who spent the day that this D was born, being hungover and angry at me for being in labor and impacting his hangover nap time... And then when I asked that he take the baby and visit with him family outside the hospital room, in the family center (bc his family had been abusive to me for months prior and I'd set a limit that I would not see them but did want him to be able to have them come see the baby if he wanted)... he invited them right in and I had to lay there with tension and awkwardness and wanted to cry that the ONE thing I had asked of him after giving birth to his child, he could not respect.

Yep, I have been there. It sucks.
If he is feeling distant, how about getting distant for real?
Trust me I really am trying-- the girls want to see him so I try and let that happen and the more I detach the more he is pulling out all the stops to be as much of an a$$hole as possible... I am trying to have a thick skin but it's hard!

Please spend as little time as possible with him, he has no regard for you or your children.
A birthday party for god's sake.
But, for alcoholics, this is what happens. The world is his stage. You and your children are props. Maybe extras.
I am speaking as a recovering alcoholic here too.
He wants you to cry and feel hurt. Is that what marriage is about?
I know that isn't what it's about and I still haven't accepted that he isn't ever going to have the same perspective about what marriage is as me... The concept of honesty, respect, cooperation-- things I thought were a given and that I thought existed between us or I never would have married him... I guess I was duped or lied to myself all along...

I hope you feel better today any cake leftover? I love cake.
Lots of leftover cake... fortunately and unfortunately I am on the misery diet and have no appetite... I'd share some with you if you lived nearby-- I was told it was very tasty...
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:07 PM
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People can only hurt you if you choose to let them. Remember that, develop a mantra so when he come sat you - you're this:

He can only continue of you let him. You are giving him this power. He gets his needs met by your emotional reaction. So stop letting him have it. You can develop a thick skin to his face and show your hurt elsewhere. Believe me, when it stops working, they stop trying to be giant a$$holes. It's a huge expenditure of energy on their part and keeps feeding that "woe is me, she treats me like crap, I'm gonna have another drink".

My mantra is the serenity prayer...it works great! Stay strong...this too shall pass...
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Old 03-20-2011, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tuffgirl View Post
He gets his needs met by your emotional reaction. So stop letting him have it. You can develop a thick skin to his face and show your hurt elsewhere. Believe me, when it stops working, they stop trying to be giant a$$holes. It's a huge expenditure of energy on their part and keeps feeding that "woe is me, she treats me like crap, I'm gonna have another drink".
That's so true, it is like they feed off of the emotional response. When I finally started finding even a tiny bit of detachment in my AH's presence (which only happened a few weeks ago), I noticed he kept looking at me almost puzzled, like, "hm this is weird, this isn't working like it usually does..." And I never thought of that before, how reacting emotionally feeds into the victim crap, and seemingly confirms for him the feeling mistreated stuff and the justification for drinking, for being abusive, negligent, immature, etc.

Thanks for the insights....!

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