coffeedrinker

yeah, I'd like to think about what Bolina said.

What if you did "cause" him to drink more, and to push out of the relationship?

Wow, that's how he deals with relationship issues? That's how he deals, period?
I say good for you. You got out.

One day, sweetheart, you're gonna say "Thank you!" for it. Any other outcome would be a study in frustration and misery for you.

You heal yourself, and the next relationship you find yourself in will likely NOT be with a conflict-avoidant, alcohol-using younster who can't face things.

gingercharlie

I've answered this in three threads. I let myself go. I allowed myself to become isolated, swallowed by the relationship. I made him my everything. I didn't recognize myself - literally and figuratively.

You TOTALLY misunderstood my post, and the way you've characterized it and compared it to those women is really, really offensive to me.

I did not want to be with him for financial reasons. NOT AT ALL. It's just that he literally became a Prince Charming to me, in more ways than one. Whether it be being a fantastic provider, or rubbing my feet, or getting me a Starbucks every morning, or supporting my career aspirations, or taking care of me when I was bedridden with the flu, he became my security blanket. It was as if I could wrap myself up in him, and feel safe, secure, protected - in every way.

Quite honestly, I feel like you twist my words and are quite harsh in how you talk to me.

Learn2Live

Really good point Bolina. I too discovered I was trying to "live the American dream" and thought I was SUPPOSED to do and have all these things that were simply unattainable. Or, once I had them, I still felt empty. So, I started making fundamental changes in my life that reflected my NEW relationship with money. It is amazing, when you are able to step back and take a really deep look, at just how much our culture's ideals dictate how we feel and what we do.

Bolina

I'm sorry you feel that way, charlie. It was you that mentioned the money thing, though. And went into detail about what that brought to your life. Financial considerations is a broad church. I would say that financial stability is a great reason for being with someone, but I tend to see that as a given these days. I wouldn't want to be with someone who was useless with money. But it is such a small part of the attraction to someone for me (largely because splashing money around can really hide a lot if ugly stuff).

Anyway, I don't want to cause a fight so I shall wish you luck and hope you find peace.

Learn2Live

I remember feeling this. I don't need this anymore because I have done what I needed to do to make mySELF feel these things. But I totally understand where you're coming from.

gingercharlie

How did you do that?

He used to hear my car pulling up in the driveway and opening the garage, and he would come to the garage door to wait for me to give me a welcome-home kiss and hug. Right up until the day he broke up with me.

How do I make mySELF feel that loved and wanted?

LaTeeDa

I remember that feeling, too. When I first married my husband. And I remember some 20 or so years later in a marriage counseling session, after the drinking had progessed, my therapist asked me what I wanted. And I said I wanted to feel that again. I wanted to feel safe with him and trust him.

And she said to me "it's not about trusting HIM, it's about trusting YOURSELF." I didn't get what she meant at the time. Now I do.

L

Learn2Live

I wish I could run over there and give you a big hug!!!! But I can't, so here's what I know. Only YOU can figure out how to do that for yourself. But there have been others who have gone before us who offer lots of advice by way of books, counseling, group support (like Al-Anon), spirituality. It's all about balance and health in many areas of life. The way I did it was to learn how to trust myself, my own inner voice, my own instincts and I always follow my heart. Even when everyone else is screaming, "NO!!!!! Don't do that!" I always followed my heart. Of course, it got me into some really bad situations but EVERY situation is a learning experience as long as you do enough to keep yourself breathing. Be courageous, even in the face of severe emotional pain, have the courage to keep looking at yourself and working on you.

I just ran upstairs to find the book I think you should read, but I can't find it so I don't know the author's name but it is called, "If Life Is A Game, These Are The Rules." AWESOME stuff in there. I'm sure they'll have it on Amazon used, for cheap. It'll be well worth the $5 plus shipping and handling LOL. Another one that really changed my life is called, "Mama Gena's Owner's and Operator's Guide to Men," by Regina Thomashauer. You have to take it with a grain of salt, she is WAY over the top. But if you think of her as your big sister, it is HILARIOUS but helps you to see men in a whole different light. She can be rather crude but I just skipped over the parts that offended me. I'm sure you can get that one on Amazon used also.

But what really did it for me was I found my Higher Power. I have always run away from "religious" people. I thought anyone who quoted the Bible was CRAZY and wished they would just STOP talking to me about that stuff. But, at some point the last relationship I had with an alcoholic addict, I thought it would help HIM so we did a weekly bible study together with some people. We really learned a lot. Ever since then, I have had this additional, almost magical strength that I never felt before.

Everything comes in good time. Be good to yourself. Try not to beat yourself up so much about having complained about his drinking. He may have given you some good feelings but honestly, you can't rely on other people for those things. Because people are imperfect and unpredictable. Not only that, they have to take care of themSELVES--each of us is responsible for taking care of ourselves. So if you really think you want to be with this guy, strengthen yourself so that you don't NEED him. Think about this though: In my experience, men who drink and drug WANT needy women, especially the kind that beg and grovel. Because needy women NEED them and will not leave, no matter how badly they treat her. They can do what they want and not have to worry that you won't be there to enable them. Do you really want that to be what your partnership and your life is about? I personally do not want to be needy, nor do I want to be with a needy person.

dkaye26

I'm telling you gingercharlie—yours and mine could be siblings. My ex did more nice, thoughtftul, generous, and caring things for me than my ex husband (who isn't any kind of addict) or any other man in my life. Conversely, he could be cold and cruel and turn the switch "off" on our relationship in a heartbeat. He was/is cowardly, he can't deal with conflict,and he has the emotional maturity of a 16 year old. But, there were days when he seemed perfect. Again, I feel your pain...

ladyhawk69

IMO it's all about manipulation........not true love. True love is not harsh or unkind. It doesn't judge or manipulate or even make you feel bad. If you are here looking for an answer, you feel bad. I still feel bad sometimes, but I have found mySELF. It wasn't anything anyone else could give me or tell me how to go about it. You will find your niche Ginger and when you do, you'll have an "AH HA" moment. Do the things that make YOU feel special, enjoy yourself and enjoy being alone. Once you get into that groove you honestly won't want any man around! LOL

mrphillipctrs1

My XAGF did the exact same things with me, up until she relapsed at Rehab and ran off with a another guy, a recovering alcoholic himself. The day before she was telling me how much she loved me. She never went back to her recovery, and for the first time, I didn't want to try and steer her back on course.

I know your feelings are raw, mine are too. I took a step back and with support, began to see what was really going on. We talked about marriage on a number of occasions. Her kids adored me and I adored them. Her family loved me and I loved them. I have known her for over 20 years.

But she has an addiction, and I can't do anything about it, the only thing I can do, is to make sure I take care of myself.

gingercharlie

HELP!!! Help, help, help!!

I'm at XABF's house right now, picking up more of my belongings (I had SO MUCH stuff here). He's not here, on a business trip - hence why I came today.

So, I had to get stuff from the pantry, and stuff from the fridge. In looking for what's mine, I found something noticibly absent.

Wine.

There's virtually none in the house, just some expensive bottles for very special occasions. The once fully-stocked bar is empty. The fridge is missing his trademark whites and fancy beer. This is TOTALLY unlike him, even since we started dating - to not have a fully stocked bar.

It looks like he's literally stopped drinking. BUT there are three unwashed wine glasses in the dishwasher.

WTF?

mrphillipctrs1

Maybe he drank it all before he left. Get your stuff and leave.

Paintbaby

Maybe he had a party. You could drive yourself crazy trying to figure out where the booze went. And does it matter now anyhow? The relationship was not right for you, or for him, and neither of you was happy, and it ended. So now, you do you, and let him worry about doing him. Better things are in store for you without an alcoholic around.

gingercharlie

The reason this matters to me is that this is PROOF that I made him drink to excess!

This is PROOF that he really was drinking to push me away.

This is PROOF that he was intoxicated by the time I got home because he was drinking away the pain of knowing I was coming home.

This devastating...

LaTeeDa

First he tells you that he drank to drive you away. Then he tells you that he hasn't been drinking. Then he takes all the booze out of his house KNOWING that you will notice it.

The only thing that this is PROOF of is that he's a really, really good manipulator.

Run............fast.

L

Paintbaby

It's proof of nothing, other than an empty bar fridge and pantry. How do you know he didn't go on a huge bender before leaving town? How long are you going to let him continue to manipulate your thinking? You were lucky enough to get out, even if it doesn't feel like it right now. This man sounds like a class-A manipulator, and look--it's working! Here you are, blaming yourself for his character flaws. However way you slice it, his actions have been less than honorable and deliberately hurtful to you. Give yourself a present and stop trying to put yourself into his head---you'll never get any answers there and will drive away any peacefulness you are trying to acheive.

Think about YOU. What do YOU need to heal? What are YOU most looking forward to without having an alcoholic in your life, twisting you up? What are YOUR plans to be kind to gingercharlie?

gingercharlie

Is that all it is? Why am I starting to convince myself that he's not a drunk?

I imagine, that this is how he sees it.

1. "Okay, so admittedly, between Thanksgiving and Valentine's Day, I had too much to drink a couple times. When I did, the next day, Ginger would say something like, "Um, I think you're drinking too much. This may be a problem for me." Or even say outright, "I think you have a drinking problem, this is unacceptable." So, NOTE TO SELF: Ginger doesn't like when I drink. Gotcha."

2. "I'm starting to lose feelings for Ginger. She's gained weight, she's dependent on me, she's not as fun, she's just not the same person I fell in love with. And now she's bringing up moving in officially and even talking about marriage. OMG... I'm stuck! Well, this wine/beer will help me tune her out tonight. And tomorrow. And this weekend. Thank GOD I have this wine to keep me entertained, because she's just not doing it for me anymore. Maybe she'll get better, who knows?"

3. "Yup, Ginger is still talking marriage, and she's been soooo annoying lately. She said I drove too fast today, and last night she wanted me to follow the recipe on a meal rather than wing it. So uncool, right? How do I get out of this? HOW? I gotta think of something. I can't end it myself, it would crush her. Maybe I can do something to push her away... For now, I better "make myself comfortable" (wink wink) with this here bottle of wine before she comes home, because Lord knows that I just don't enjoy interacting with her anymore."

4. "Ah ha! I can't break up with her, I just can't. I can't be the bad guy. So, I have just the ticket! She HATES when I get drunk! I'll just do that more! Then, she'll just want to be rid of me, and she'll do it herself! It'll make me sad and lonely for a while, because she's a great companion... but I just don't feel it for her anymore."

5. "My LORD, she just isn't getting the hint and isn't leaving!! She just keeps ragging on me about my drinking, but there are NO signs of it being a dealbreaker for her. She just keeps on going, loving me 100% and then getting mad at me the next if I drink. I can't deal anymore."

6. "So yeah, I told her. She yelled at me last night for drinking, but still wants to work on things. So I told her it's over. Explained why I'd been drinking the way I was. Sucked to admit how much of a coward I was, and I hated admitting that I didn't have fun on our vacation last week, but it was the truth, and I felt compelled to be honest."

7. "Wow, this place is so much more peaceful and relaxing without her here. I don't even feel the need to reach for the bottle, THAT's how awesome this is! I get a good run in, come home, chill out with Top Chef, and don't even have an urge to medicate anymore! Cheers with my water bottle!"

8. "Well, I'm running out of wine... but I don't really need anymore right now. So there's no need to restock. But water bottles, and lean meats and veggies, THAT stuff I do need more of. Because I'm healthier now - physically and emotionally, now that Ginger is gone. Phew!"


Now see, THAT is how demented my thinking is right now!!!!!

I feel like I'm going crazy!

I've dated an alcoholic before, but it was SO patently obvious from the very beginning (and he was a MEAN, obnoxious drunk), that I never for a second questioned that he had a problem. But XABF really has me thinking it ("it" meaning his unhappiness and his drinking) was all my fault!

WTF?

LaTeeDa

Okay, here's another perspective.

1. I like having this girl wrapped around my little finger. But, now we are getting more serious and committed. I wonder how she will react to my little 'secret?' I will drink more around her and see what happens.

2. Well, obviously she doesn't like me when I'm drunk. So, how can we possibly be together long-term, when that's what I like to do?

3. I have to break up with her, otherwise she is going to nag me about drinking forever.

4. Now, if I can just convince her that the drinking was her fault, and that I can control it, she will come back and I will have control again. And then, she won't be so quick to criticize when I drink because she will be terrified of losing me again.

L

spinwc

ginger-you are being way hard on yourself here. addictions are deeply rooted. they just dont happen overnight and then stop overnight.