Dee74

I didn't actually

I said there was a difference between building a new life sober and just not drinking.

Many times, I just didn't drink, nothing about my life changed but for that...I was still living a life predicated on my drinking to make it bearable.

Sitting in front of the TV or sitting in a bar are fine for drinkers but less fine for sober people. It was inevitable I'd drink again and I did.

The last time I quit, I knew I had to change my life - and I did that - new hobbies, new interests, new friendships - and sober support.

That worked much better for me.

(For the record I'm not an adherent of any programme )

D

michaels_w

Over the years, in and out of my active addiction, I've had this burning question. I've had this desperate need to ask myself, "Why me?". I really just wanted to get to some kind of root to what went wrong with my life.
I had this sneaking feeling that it had something to do with my inability to relate to anyone. I just couldn't get along. So, many years ago, in trying to get to my feelings, I wrote this poem for my, then girlfriend, now wife. I post it now, just 'cause it helps, by writing it out, to heal my head.

"One and One"

We two;
Mother's daughter, father's son.
Can you see,
You as you, me as me?

Going along as one and one;
How is this done?
We take each other,
And keep ourselves.

If there's a way,
We'll know;
You as you, me as me.
We two, one and one.

Then, we'll come together?
We'll see eye to eye?
Where we come together,
Paths cross. Hands touch.

Take my hand when you can.
And I'll take yours.
You as you, me as me.
We two, one and one.


Thanks for letting me share,

michaels

dSober

Because you've been chosen.

michaels_w

d,
I really liked that; quick and to the point. You made my day. Thank you.


Peace,

michaels

nmd

Statistically, I think you will find some people can go from alcohol abuse to moderation, but statistics are like that. You can cherry pick data to find whatever answer you are looking for given enough raw data. I also don't see a lot of value in the AA definition of alcoholism or the word in general, because as you have mentioned, it is circular. Denying some people can moderate by excluding them as being possible addicts is silly.

There is a lot of alcoholism related material that isn't 100% abstinence only on this site: HAMS: Harm Reduction for Alcohol

I guess the way I look at it though, moderation for one person might be functional alcoholism for others. If the goal is simply harm reduction (eg. not drinking and driving, going to work in the morning), you might be a reasonably productive member of society but still hurting yourself and your own future. Are you looking to better your life, or simply get by as a functioning member of society?

An important question for me is what do I get out of alcohol and is it worth it? Is my quality of life better sober or drinking? Can I honestly justify drinking at all and risk harm based on my past behaviors?

Even the moderation adherents who insist that 100% abstinence isn't the only way will admit that for some, it is the only safe choice, and for someone who succeeds being 100% sober, it is the best choice to stay sober. The risk of relapse to abuse or worsening dependance is too great once you've already been a substance abuser. Depending on the level of abuse, success rates and outcomes of moderation vary, and "success" can be kind of like just making the grade curve for passing an exam. You're not excelling, but you aren't failing either (and presumably not dead).

These two documents linked of the HAMS site have some eye opening data:

Moderate Drinking, Harm Reduction, and Abstinence Outcomes PDF Aug 1, 2012

Choosing a Goal: Safer Drinking, Reduced Drinking, Or Quitting Altogether PDF March 7, 2012


I guess, on the one hand, you can read the stats in the "outcomes" study and say "Yeah! some people were able to moderate!". Truthfully though, most people couldn't, 5 people died, and who is to say that moderation is an ideal better than abstinence? Even the group of subjects with the lowest measure of alcohol dependance only had a somewhere less than 25% success rate at moderation. The rest of the subjects with higher dependance quickly approached a 0% success rate at moderation. I don't see those as particularly good odds.

Jimboagust

Thanks nmd. That is incredibly helpful. You're making some excellent points. That being said, it is astounding to me how difficult it is to rewire the brain, so to speak, to be able to enjoy the simplest activities without the added "kick" of whatever substance one was addicted to. Whenever I'm doing something enjoyable I find myself thinking: "This would be even better after a few drinks." The struggle is in trying to go "deeper" into the experience, which one is able to do sober, as opposed to just wanting that immediate gratification that the monkey-brain affords us when we're high.

I was at a concert the other day and found myself craving booze (or something) really bad at first. I used to love having a few whiskeys before a show. But then I started really getting into the groove of the music and I got totally immersed in the experience in a way that I don't think I've been able to do for a long time.

Alcohol is particularly deceptive because it's socially acceptable. Almost socially required. If I knew someone who had to do coke every time they watched a film or went to a concert I would find it pretty pathetic. But that's what I did with booze for years. Getting sober, as painful as it is, is a bit like being released from The Matrix (or Plato's Cave, or whatever other analogy you want to use). All of a sudden you realize that your experiences have been covered in a thick layer of ******** and that you're now seeing things as they truly are. This can be a painful experience, but one that is also deeply gratifying.

michaels_w

Thanks Jimbo,

For so long, I had that feeling that I might find more life-enjoyment, if only I had a chemical on board. I still struggle with enjoying life without the added "kick", even with activities that I'm already passionate about.

I've always loved music, both listening and playing. I played while I was sober for years, and it was still enjoyable. I didn't feel like I was missing anything. That was until I couldn't stay sober. Then, I thought that I could play better and enjoy it more with my chemical. I suppose it stems from that old myth about artists who become more artistic with a chemical.

Like you were saying, Jimbo, It's possible to get "deeper" and more "immersed" into an experience, without the thick layer of bs. I, too, need to rewire my brain to that concept. It's about, being able to still experience the same passion I once had, without the false gratification from a chemical.

Peace,

michaels

dSober

Wow, cool analogy. Always loved that movie. You just helped me understand better why.

dSober

Oops, fumbled fingered dup. Please help Dee

nmd

Thanks Jimbo, this has been a very helpful conversation for me. I have started drinking again thinking i would just have a few on special occations. 4Days later, progressively drinking more each day I see my BS. Back to work on staying sober

Croissant

My 2 cents worth;

1. Fair point about thinking about drinking, regardless of moderating / being sober. When drinking, I don't want to feel suddenly panicked if there is only one bottle of wine for the evening, or worse, I have to unexpectedly share my alcohol with someone. For me, it's much easier to moderate - sober.

2. Euphoric Recall is the minds way of "tricking" us back to our poison of choice to feed the addiction. Dampening any good Euphoric Recall memories, by remembering the garbage alcohol brought to my life and taking off the rose coloured glasses is imperative for me to stay sober. Alcohol brought nothing good long term to either my Mother, or eventually, myself. In fact, I was a non-drinker basically til my early thirties. It's very easy to get sucked into the addiction lie once that switch gets turned on. Finding out about how Euphoric Recall can trick me, just put addiction into a whole new light for me.

Arbor

Yes. Great thread indeed. I fool myself all too often in thinking I can moderate. Just once a week on weekends or special occasion. But it never seems to work out for me. Creeps on back in once again. It's not easy being sober and it's not easy being a drunk. Unhappy with either choice. Which is why I think I could learn to moderate in good time.

liam8888

hi JOhnston, curious how the moderation thing has been going, now, 3 years later? would love to know, thanks

Dee74

Welcome to SR Liam
Johnston is still around but just so you know...the experiment was a bust.

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ml#post5175401

D

Johnston

Yep, moderation was a fail. Just hit 3 years sober last month.

Dee74

Congrats Johnston

D

Foolsgold186

Wow, well done on 3 years sober.

Great post to read.

Thanks

Redmayne

I think it's perfectly possible to mature out of anything, the reasoning for this is. As any psychologist will tell you, you, as we all do, exist in the state of your mind.

The downside is, if you're a 'real alcoholic' see Chapter 3 of the Big Book and you have, like me, a metabolism that excludes the enzymes in your digestive system breaking down he carbohydrates (alcohol) at the same rate as normal social drinkers. About 1oz per hour.

So that the alcohol (drug) remains in your body for a prolonged period, allowing it to send messages to your brain. Thus creating the craving for more alcohol, that all those who are 'real alcoholics' know so well. Amongst whom, it doesn't really matter if your were born with this phenomena or drank yourself into it.

Then you really are on dangerous ground, especially if two drinks becomes three, etc.

Personally speaking, with a week short of 7 years sobriety under my belt. Alcohol plays no part in my life now, ever, however the fact that I suffer from the disease/illness of alcoholism remains with me constantly and will do so until my passing.

So rhetorically speaking, why spoil a good thing, balanced against the potential risk factors?

heartcore

What a wonderful thread. So many ideas and perspectives!

J - congratulations on 3 years sober! I value the questioning & exploration you did - it makes your decision so grounded!

sugarbear1

Congratulations on 3+ years of sobriety, Johnston!!