kilt

My ex liked to blame the women in his life for the way he treated the rest of us. After we broke up he would say he couldn't make an appointment or talk with me or others because of his current girlfriend, whatever girlfriend that was at the time. He would say the women would not allow him to do this or that. We all thought that was really strange and joked that he must keep his balls in a jar that he passed off to one woman or another.

We thought the women he was with must have been really horrible and mean. Turns out he was just lying to all of us. Any time he didn't want to do something he blamed the women instead of taking responsibility. I felt alot of pity for him all these years thinking he was a victim and it turns out he was nothing but a big fat liar.

I know that alcoholics lie to make themselves look good but I never understood that they also lie to make others look bad.

nodaybut2day

My XAH is the same. If you asked him, his life consists of a series of bad relationships with horrible and vindictive women, all hell-bent on using him. I used to think he was just a victimized person, but now that time has passed, I realized that he's inherently misogynistic. When it comes right down to it, the woman he blames above all others is his mother.

I made sure to remind myself that a man who portrays himself as constantly being victimized by women (and who has an underlying hatred for women in general) really DOESN'T MAKE A GOOD PARTNER.

tallulah

I hear ya. My ex was the same.

I don't know if he's involved with anyone else right now, but I can only imagine he is saying the same things about me that he said about his ex(s).

It's not like a blamethrower to accept their own 'doo-doo'.

Tx

Shellcrusher

Not knowing the full story here, I'll go out on a limb and wonder if this person simply had an AM.

I did and I was terribly let down in my younger years. I never had that type of motherly love. One of the tightest, most endearing types of love we humans can experience was severely lacking in my world because my mom was hammered most of my life. I ended up marrying one just like my her. Very textbook outcome.

Some people carry that with them forever. I know there was a time when I didn't trust women at all. I thought for the most part they were nutty, one sided manipulators. In my case, I was able to rise above it all and be thankful that at least I learned how to cook and take care of myself well before any other kid. I still know how to cook. Realizing that I'm a codie makes it all that much easier to understand. Perhaps now, I have a better view of women because I have a better view of myself.

Having a bad mother/son experience is tough to deal with.

Bolina

Whilst I agree that many men blame their ex partners for their situation, I don't think this is solely a male preserve. You will read plenty of the same complaints if you spend a few months on this forum and this section is mainly frequented by women. I really don't think that it is an alcohol issue either. It is simply a symptom of someone who refuses to engage in any self-awareness and realise that the common denominator is them and their lousy picker/lack of healthy relationship skills. Of course, people with addictions have a vested interest in having a ready source of blame for their discomfort and therefore an excuse to drink/drug/gamble, but anyone who refuses to take responsibility for their own life and choices has a vested interest in distorting the truth. In fact, we all do it to a certain extent because there is very litle reality, only perception. That's not to say that many male alcoholics are not misogynists, but that's equally not a function of alcohol intake.

I do entirely understand the scenario that you are painting and that attitude is my No 1 Red Flag. Did you read these two stickies?

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...special-i.html

http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...pecial-ii.html

They give a bit of insight into what I think you are talking about.

Verbena

Alcoholics lie to themselves too. I've seen my AH talk in terms of maybe or what if on Monday and by Thursday he's believing his own nonsense.

TakingCharge999

I blamed my dad and all men for all my issues, depression and bad times!

Its difficult to realize who the common denominator is. Huge blow to the ego! but then that is where the power can be felt again (or in my case: for the first time!) because then you are not doomed forever, you actually have options...

And men who blame women (or women that blame men) or anyone who is blaming anyone else is someone I no longer want in my life....... and to think I was someone like that not long ago... oh well. Victim no more

Now the people I welcome in my life are the ones that treat EVERYONE the same way and with the same level of respect... that is the bare minimum now... *****!! the bar has been raised.. I stopped talking to a girlfriend because she treated a waiter like $$#$$/# ... yup.. THAT is a "friendship deal breaker" for me...

XABF was also full of lies but I no longer care, after knowing what alcohol does to the brain and the kidney, he is very far away from anything close to reality. I am glad I see that now.

kudzujean

"I stopped talking to a girlfriend because she treated a waiter like $$#$$/# ... yup.. THAT is a "friendship deal breaker" for me..."

Yep...because IME, one day that person will treat you the same way....

To me, a litmus test of a person's character is how s/he treats people who aren't in a position to fight back.

Learn2Live

I blamed my Dad, the alcoholic, for a lot of things for a long time.
Until I found Al-Anon.
Eventually I figured out there is no one to blame.

Sorry about your Mom ShellCrusher. Have you done any ACOA reading or other work? We learn to parent ourselves.

kilt

Minnie shared this and I thought it was a great example of the lies we tell ourselves about blaming men.
"He won't create a revisionist fantasy of your past so that he can insist you did things to hurt him as a justification for his cruelty to you. He won't secretly resent you for not devoting all your time to him. Even if he DID do that with her, he won't do it with you. Especially after he makes all those sacrifices and moves in with you. He won't secretly be dependent on YOU for all his attention. He won't be more demanding of you and your time and resent you when you don't give it all to him. Not THIS time. You're SPECIAL."

Cyranoak

Men don't have the franchise on this type of behavior, and alcoholics don't either. Plenty of this particular characteristic to go around.

The real problem for me is I'm not attracted to normal women, so every woman I experience intimately I experience as ******* crazy. It's me, not them, and I don't blame women as a gender at all. How cliche, but how true for me.

Take care,

Cyranoak

passionfruit

You state here that you are not attracted to normal women....

here you say you don't blame them because it is how you experience them.

I am confused........If the women are not normal, (and really, what is normal?) then why do you not blame them?

On the other hand, If its you that is having this experience due to your own issues, how do you know the women are not normal?

Just curious..........

Cyranoak

...you raise good points here. By normal, I mean women who have not had, and do not have, alcohol and substance abuse issues, and who live relatively drama free lives because of how they interact with the world. I know many of them well, and their husbands, so I know they exist.

Rattlesnakes bite, it's what they do, and they can't be experienced any other way-- they can't be tamed. Don't choose a rattlesnake and you won't get bitten. There are plenty of other choices, just like there are in men and women. It's about who we choose.

lillamy

Cyrano -- this is sort of sideways from the OP, but... your comment rang a bell with me, because I've been like that my entire life. Attracted to rattlesnakes.

In my case (just sharing my experience, not saying it translates to your life), I had this incredible awakening. When I started getting romantically involved with the man I'm dating now (long-distance, friends for 30 years), I was utterly confused. Because my mind could not get the pieces to fit together: Here was a person I trusted utterly, that I would trust not only with my life, but with my children's life -- who didn't need me to save him from anything, who was nothing like any guy I had ever dated, who felt utterly comfortable and like coming home... to a home I never knew I had... but I couldn't wait to tear his clothes off. To me, that combination of finding someone utterly attractive and feeling utterly safe with him was an oxymoron. I couldn't get those two things to work together in my mind.

And then I realized: Hey -- this is how normal people feel when they fall in love: Love isn't the drama, the balancing-on-the-edge-of-disaster excitement that I've been mistaken for love all these years.... I couldn't distinguish between the adrenaline rush of danger and infatuation; I couldn't distinguish between pity and love.

Take what you can use, if anything... and as always, leave the rest...

wicked

dammit, lillamy, where were you twenty years ago! geez.
i should have known when he had no idea who monet was.
damn.
my latest (what are we going with? loverboy? hehehehe) when I said something about my monet and manet prints.
"woman, you wont be fillin up my house with paintings of flowers and water!"
:day6

oh yeah. good good stuff.

Shellcrusher

hmm
That is a strange conundrum passionfruit brings up with what cryanoak presents. I think I agree with him. Instead of running in circles trying to solve the "who's normal question" I'm just going to say that I and perhaps cryanoak are simply taking responsibility for ourselves. Moving beyond codie behavior leads to better understanding of ourselves, leading to better relationships with better people and we all live happily ever after.
Is that right?

stella27

I am sort of/kind of starting to (?) see someone. He is really, really nice TO ME. He seems concerned about my welfare, my comfort, my confidence. I don't know what to do with someone like that. That I like more and more every time I see him. I'm only used to desperation and clutching and then holding on for dear life to someone who wants to get away from me because I'm "not fun."

And I haven't heard him blame anyone for anything. Unbelievable.

wicked

So far, so good.

wicked

psst....alien life form.
shhhhhh


Beth

nodaybut2day

I say Body Snatcher