Timebuster

Then what? We have a problem, but what is the solution. What happens when you stop the subs. The disease of addiction just goes away. The insanity that comes with being addicted to drugs just disappears. Do you live happily ever after. Help me and others to understand this.

Lately all I read on this forum is how to get on subs, how much should I take, how long should I stay on them and how to taper off subs.

Other then BV and KJ, I don’t hear any other positive recovery stories of long term sobriety coming off subs.

Anyone out there would like to share there long term sobriety success stories of quitting subs with us. I know I would like to here them. And am sure others who are sick and suffering the merry go round of addiction would to.

Addicts who are sick and suffering need to hear that life after subs or drugs can be done. I know when I was new around here sick and suffering, I would log on and read the success stories. It gave me the strength to make it one more day.

So please… If you got it… please give it back.

Let the new recovering addict know that there is hope.

Ivan

lostbutterfly

I think BV tried subs many times before he got it right, and KJ tried tapering many times. You really do have to be ready, me thinks. And both of them seem to work hard at their recovery. Both go to AA as well.

Subs help, but they are no "cure".

ccgirl2

Oh, Ivan, I hate to sound like doom and gloom, but I've often wondered the same thing.

My husband's bookkeeper's daughter went on a sub program for two years. Weaned down, off......within 6 months she's addicted again.

I don't know if the statistics are different if you get clean another way. I do know bv is a bil 12 stepper. I see a correllation in people staying sober who go to meetings; if for no other reason, you hold yourself accountable to someone else.

marle

I would rather have my daughter normal on subs for two years even if she does end up relapsing when she weans off than the alternative, to be sick in her addiction for those two years. Subs have given me back my daughter even if it is not forever. I cherish each day that she does not use heroin. I take it one day at a time. I try not to think about the future too much. And she does do meetings and sees a counselor but we all know there is no guarantee even if someone is doing exactly what he/she is told. Hugs, Marle

marle

Just wanted to add that my daughter has a job now, parents back in her life, a nice boyfriend, an apartment and is paying her bills. The last 2+ years when she was using, she lived in one crack motel after another with her crack addict boyfriend. Subs have made the difference for her. Hugs, Marle

madriley

Like LB said "subs help, but they are no "cure". The sad truth is that there is no "cure" for addiction, but there is recovery. I went on subs at two different times during my addiction and honestly I did not go on them because I was ready to quit I went on them because I could not afford my DOC anymore and getting a script for the subs was cheaper. Yes it was great to feel normal and not have to NEED the Oxy's but whenever I had extra money I still found some because I knew I would not be sick when I ran out this time. I do know a handful of people personally who 1) made the decision that they were done using, 2) went on a sub program and 3) stuck to it the way it is supposed to be and have now been clean for the last 3 years. If you do not taper down your dose before getting off of the subs and if you are not on it long enough, you will feel just like you are coming off of your DOC once you stop taking it. Unfortunately, they do not fix what is wrong inside of our brains or minds and make us naturally happy with life and teach us how to deal with all of the things that lead us to use in the first place. The subs are a way of dealing with the physical pains of w/d, but the rest of the work has to come from ourselves or else, all we will do is circle around and around, on them, off them , etc. The only time I have been able to completely stop using was to do it cold turkey. I learned during my last few years of addiction that anything that makes me feel "normal" and "happy" I will abuse, even subs. So that was not an option for me this time because I was ready to say goodbye to all of my drug "friends" that I have held onto for so long.

I just wanted to put my two cents out there. You can make a positive recovery off of subs but it does not come from the subs, it comes from you and what you do with it.

ex D-Boy

this is an interesting topic that id like to get everybody's perspective on. My mom has often popped the question of getting me on subs or methadone and then weaning me off that. I never wanted to do that because i always felt it was just a replacement drug and not really solving the problem but at this point, being that I tried it my way and ended up back where i was 2 years ago (dealing, using heavily, not caring about anybody or anything but myself) maybe this is the route I should go.

I just wanna be rid of dope so badly, i have only been doing heroin for 3 years but I cant even think to a time back in my life before this drug was in my life.

madriley

I have been on both and I would NOT suggest going on Methadone. The subs are the best way to go and if you are serious about getting off of heroin and follow the program exactly then you will be just fine. When you wean off of the subs, you MAY have some symptoms depending on how much and how long you are on them for, but it is so much more doable then trying to just get off of the drugs with no help. Methadone is really more like just trading one drug for another and when I detoxed from it 2 weeks ago, I felt just like I was detoxing from Oxy's, it sucked. The whole point of the subs is to take them for about 3-6 months and then you are done, now you can stay on it longer depending on your drug history and usage. The bad part of the Methadone is that it is more like a "maintenance" and most people end up on it for the rest of their lives. Everyone is different and maybe some would prefer the Methadone but from what I have been through with all the drugs I've done in the past, the subs and the Methadone, Oxy's and Methadone were the worst to get off of.

ex D-Boy

thanks for your advice. my only problem with the subs is that i feel that they would be kind of "weak" ?? I know for moderate to severe heroin addicts suboxone doesnt really help much and they require methadone?? that is the only problem i am dealing with. my last run out there i was shooting up about a gram and a half of dope a day (150$ per day)

thats another thing ive heard the withdrawal from methadone is actually harder and longer than that of heroin. being that im already on day 5 now opiate free i think i mine as well just tough the little bit i have left out and then throw myself into NA or AA. thanks though for your response madriley

madriley

Wow, yeah I don't think the subs would be strong enough then. I was alright on them coming off of about 300mg of Oxy's daily but I don't think they are anywhere near as strong as Heroin, and whenever I did H it was only enough so I wouldn't get w/d from not having any Oxy's. To be completely honest with you, like you said you have already made it to day 5 without any opiates, you really better off sticking with what you are doing and adding some meetings and maybe even some counseling. Today is my 15th day opiate free and I don't feel too much of the physical w/d anymore but I know that if I am going to stay clean (this is my longest) I have to go and talk to someone to fix my head (if that can be done!). You are doing awesome already! Just one day clean is an amazing accomplishment so be proud of yourself and take it one day at a time!!

kj3880

Nope, I've actually known several heroin addicts who did well on sub recovery. They aren't members of SR, but I know them through NA.

The thing about suboxone is that it is very strong on overcoming any type of withdrawal symptom, you won't have w/d at all. But you just don't get high. So it only works for addicts who are willing to give up the high, and need some help getting through the w/d. If you still want to be high, methadone is a better way to go, although it's much harder to taper from.

Suboxone isn't a "shake and bake" drug. It isn't a quick cure-all. You just gotta do the work. I've been at NA so much it's like my second family now. Recovery has become the biggest part of my life, pretty much. That's what it takes, not just popping a pill. Suboxone helped me with the physical symptoms, but dealing with feelings, social phobia, loneliness, all that cr@p: I needed NA!!!! I still need NA!!! I don't recommend anyone just take suboxone and expect to recover. I think that is unrealistic. Anything worth having is worth working for. Recovery is sooooo worth it!!

You gotta do the work...the steps, get a sponsor, a homegroup, a service position, a network, log on here and post, share at meetings, go to tons of meetings, dig in to recovery. If anybody wants what I have (and I'm only a beginner), you gotta do what I did/do!!! Love you all! It is doable! It is enjoyable!! But it is work!

KJ

madriley

I miss that darn "thank you" button! Thanks KJ!

vicodaniel

Whether you do suboxone or cold turkey like myself and some others here have done. The goal is to be, ultimately, drug free. You can be clean or clean and sober, but will always be an addict.This might get easier over time, but there is always going to be different rules and a different set of challenges for us addicts. You will need to learn what your limitations are. You need help and the type of support you get here or NA, even so the odds are against us ! We have a disease, its beatable but still a disease

ccgirl2

I guess what I was trying to say, and I guess this is for Marle, having those two years is wonderful. But, do subs teach us the skills we need to maintain sobriety when we're all done with them? I've seen a lot of people on these boards that are on them, all is fine, then Bam! when they're done they start using again, and I think, hmm the subs just prolonged the inevitable.

As a tool, they are fine, but I believe something else concurrently and afterwards is key to success.

marle

cc, I totally agree with you that subs are only a tool. My daughter tried numerous times in the last 4 years to get off the opiates. She tried cold turkey several times and had 6 months at one time, then a surgery put her right back to square one. In May of this year she finally hit a bottom (don't know if it is her last one) and wanted to go to rehab, get on subs and work a program of recovery. So far she is doing that but with drugs all around her in this small town it is still a difficult proposition and she is only 22. Which means she wants to be like other kids her age. The problem she faces here is that there are no NA meetings close by and in her AA meetings they frown upon talking about drugs. So she does the best that she can with what is available. She did 90 in 90 but is still looking for a sponsor. There are only a couple of women in AA and one of them takes pain pills for a medical condition. So I guess what I am saying is that I agree with you that it is the willingness not the method by which one gets clean. It is just after not having contact with my daughter for 14 months, it was nice to see the girl I used to know. I will forever be thankful that subs gave me the opportunity to have my daughter back, even if it does not last forever. Every day is a miracle to me. Hugs, Marle

lostbutterfly

Marle, as a mum, I hear you. Is there any reason why people are taken off subs after two years?

I don't understand, if it works, why they take addicts off them and risk relapse. People can stay on methadone for life, how are subs different?

Just curious.

Spica

So VERY TRUE!!!!!

Thank you for posting this!!

bval

+1 on what KJ said.

a means to an end, that's all 'replacement' drugs are.

in and of themselves, subs/methadone doesn't do much to get at the 'root' of our addictions, the sick thinking, etc.

i mainly advocate subs because they are easier (less brutal, I should say) to get off of than regular dope (if you wean properly), and because you're a lot less likely to DIE or end up in jail in the meantime from them than you are jamming a spike full of god-knows-what into your friggin vein every day. it's also easier to hold down a job, and keep your life together in general when you're on subs vs. dope.

it's called harm-reduction until you gather the wherewithal to *actually* go through with getting clean and then, most importantly, recovery.

subs are no silver bullet, but they surely are at least a step in the right direction.

also, for the record, oxys and heroin are not significantly different when it comes to whether or not bupe will work for the person who's been taking them. and there's almost no chance that someone who's only been on heroin for 3 years could be doing enough that bupe treatment just 'wouldn't work' for them. The w/d's from a 1.5g a day of dope can be 'covered' by a good size dose of bupe, no problem. it may take awhile to make the transition, but bupe absolutely CAN cover you.

but d-boy ... don't even think about it if you've got 5 clean days off of dope ... just tough it out brother!

ccgirl2

You know what Marle? I know you feel lucky and blessed to have had your daughter back, but from where I stand, she's the lucky one. You seem like a wonderful caring mother. I wish I had been so lucky.

ex D-Boy

thanks bval. i feel now that since im past the worst of the physical it wouldnt make much sense to get on subs or methadone. but now i gotta start filling up my time with positive people and activites (being that while i was back out there i started dealing again and immersed myself in the drug world entirely)

So I am hoping to get really involved in NA or AA or both. so hopefully i can meet some kids around my age who arent just interested in drinking their faces off and trying to get an easy lay like most of the kids at my university are . lol