cc, I totally agree with you that subs are only a tool. My daughter tried numerous times in the last 4 years to get off the opiates. She tried cold turkey several times and had 6 months at one time, then a surgery put her right back to square one. In May of this year she finally hit a bottom (don't know if it is her last one) and wanted to go to rehab, get on subs and work a program of recovery. So far she is doing that but with drugs all around her in this small town it is still a difficult proposition and she is only 22. Which means she wants to be like other kids her age. The problem she faces here is that there are no NA meetings close by and in her AA meetings they frown upon talking about drugs. So she does the best that she can with what is available. She did 90 in 90 but is still looking for a sponsor. There are only a couple of women in AA and one of them takes pain pills for a medical condition. So I guess what I am saying is that I agree with you that it is the willingness not the method by which one gets clean. It is just after not having contact with my daughter for 14 months, it was nice to see the girl I used to know. I will forever be thankful that subs gave me the opportunity to have my daughter back, even if it does not last forever. Every day is a miracle to me. Hugs, Marle