What do you believe?
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What do you believe?
Soo...just to start a discussion about whether alcoholism (addictions) are a disease or not...hopefully nobody's gonna go childish, play nice.
So what do you believe?
Today, the main beliefs of disease-model thinking are:
1. Most addicts don't know they have a problem and must be forced to recognise they are addicts.
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
3. The only solution to drug addiction and/or alcoholism is treatment.
4. Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease: A person cannot be a temporary drug addict with a mild drinking or drug problem.
5. The most important step in overcoming an addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless and can't control it.
6. Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not.
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
8. People who are drug addicted can never outgrow addiction and are always in danger of relapsing.
It's important to understand that none of these beliefs has been proved scientifically. Not one of them. In fact, they are consistently proved false. Yet these beliefs dominate addiction-treatment programmes throughout the world.
Now consider each of these beliefs within the common-sense context of self-efficacy principles. Believing in the above myths is likely to cause ... failure. In other words, teaching people in treatment for addiction problems that they'don't know they have a problem' creates a problem for them. Teaching them that they cannot control themselves convinces them that they cannot control themselves. Teaching them to believe that treatment is the only solution to their problem convinces them that they cannot solve problems on their own. It reinforces dependency. Teaching them that addiction is all-or-nothing brainwashes them into believing they can never be anything other than sick. Teaching them that they are powerless enables them to act powerless.
Teaching them that they are physically different from'normal' people gives them permission to act irresponsibly when they consume too many drugs or too much alcohol, as does teaching them that alcoholism runs in families. Teaching them that they can never mature out of their addiction and are always in danger of relapsing makes them feel hopeless and helpless. Their behaviour is determined by their beliefs. There is nothing they can do about it! Infact, there is nothing they can ever do to change their behaviour except abstain and pray.
When people realise how many people outgrow drug and alcohol addiction, they realise their own addiction problems are solvable. ... When they recognise drug and alcohol addiction is a behaviour they choose to engage in when life is going badly, they are more likely to do something to improve their life. When people believe they can rely on themselves to overcome an addiction, they are more likely to mobilise the necessary inner strength to change their behaviour. When ( People ) believe they can find their own ways out of addiction, without outside help, given the opportunity, they are more likely to wake from their drug-induced despair and build a life they value more than a life of drugs alone. Most importantly when people believe drug addiction is mainly a way of life, a behaviour people engage in as ,a way to cope with the world-and not something they are hopelessly imprisoned in-they may be more inclined to make the necessary changes not only in their own world but in the world they live in. People can learn what's necessary to live a meaningful life and put that knowledge to positive effect.
Each of these beliefs results in a more positive and common-sense outlook consistent with scientific principles established through self-efficacy research .... We all create self-fulfilling prophecies for ourselves based on our beliefs. What people believe to be true about themselves dictates how they behave in the world.
1. Most addicts don't know they have a problem and must be forced to recognise they are addicts.
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
3. The only solution to drug addiction and/or alcoholism is treatment.
4. Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease: A person cannot be a temporary drug addict with a mild drinking or drug problem.
5. The most important step in overcoming an addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless and can't control it.
6. Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not.
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
8. People who are drug addicted can never outgrow addiction and are always in danger of relapsing.
It's important to understand that none of these beliefs has been proved scientifically. Not one of them. In fact, they are consistently proved false. Yet these beliefs dominate addiction-treatment programmes throughout the world.
Now consider each of these beliefs within the common-sense context of self-efficacy principles. Believing in the above myths is likely to cause ... failure. In other words, teaching people in treatment for addiction problems that they'don't know they have a problem' creates a problem for them. Teaching them that they cannot control themselves convinces them that they cannot control themselves. Teaching them to believe that treatment is the only solution to their problem convinces them that they cannot solve problems on their own. It reinforces dependency. Teaching them that addiction is all-or-nothing brainwashes them into believing they can never be anything other than sick. Teaching them that they are powerless enables them to act powerless.
Teaching them that they are physically different from'normal' people gives them permission to act irresponsibly when they consume too many drugs or too much alcohol, as does teaching them that alcoholism runs in families. Teaching them that they can never mature out of their addiction and are always in danger of relapsing makes them feel hopeless and helpless. Their behaviour is determined by their beliefs. There is nothing they can do about it! Infact, there is nothing they can ever do to change their behaviour except abstain and pray.
When people realise how many people outgrow drug and alcohol addiction, they realise their own addiction problems are solvable. ... When they recognise drug and alcohol addiction is a behaviour they choose to engage in when life is going badly, they are more likely to do something to improve their life. When people believe they can rely on themselves to overcome an addiction, they are more likely to mobilise the necessary inner strength to change their behaviour. When ( People ) believe they can find their own ways out of addiction, without outside help, given the opportunity, they are more likely to wake from their drug-induced despair and build a life they value more than a life of drugs alone. Most importantly when people believe drug addiction is mainly a way of life, a behaviour people engage in as ,a way to cope with the world-and not something they are hopelessly imprisoned in-they may be more inclined to make the necessary changes not only in their own world but in the world they live in. People can learn what's necessary to live a meaningful life and put that knowledge to positive effect.
Each of these beliefs results in a more positive and common-sense outlook consistent with scientific principles established through self-efficacy research .... We all create self-fulfilling prophecies for ourselves based on our beliefs. What people believe to be true about themselves dictates how they behave in the world.
Last edited by CarolD; 05-04-2006 at 02:46 PM. Reason: Incorrect Link
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Location: Melbourne victoria
Posts: 1,975
It has become irrelevant to me whether it is a disease or not, i used to try to figure it out, but now it doesn't matter.
Whatever it is , I have it , I accept that, and just get on with living.
I can do ANYTHING in this life, EXCEPT drink alcohol, and that leaves me an aweful lot I can still do
HUGX
Lee
Whatever it is , I have it , I accept that, and just get on with living.
I can do ANYTHING in this life, EXCEPT drink alcohol, and that leaves me an aweful lot I can still do
HUGX
Lee
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Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Today, the main beliefs of disease-model thinking are:
1. Most addicts don't know they have a problem and must be forced to recognise they are addicts.
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
3. The only solution to drug addiction and/or alcoholism is treatment.
4. Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease: A person cannot be a temporary drug addict with a mild drinking or drug problem.
5. The most important step in overcoming an addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless and can't control it.
6. Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not.
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
8. People who are drug addicted can never outgrow addiction and are always in danger of relapsing.
1. Most addicts don't know they have a problem and must be forced to recognise they are addicts.
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
3. The only solution to drug addiction and/or alcoholism is treatment.
4. Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease: A person cannot be a temporary drug addict with a mild drinking or drug problem.
5. The most important step in overcoming an addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless and can't control it.
6. Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not.
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
8. People who are drug addicted can never outgrow addiction and are always in danger of relapsing.
It's not the definition of disease, doesn't seem to truly reflect the DSM diagnostic criteria - who says THIS is the disease model these days? Do they have the authority to determine that?
I don't think anyone in research is suggesting a SINGLE cause of genetics, or that there isn't a psychological influence.
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Originally Posted by Justme57
It has become irrelevant to me whether it is a disease or not, i used to try to figure it out, but now it doesn't matter.
Whatever it is , I have it , I accept that, and just get on with living.
I can do ANYTHING in this life, EXCEPT drink alcohol, and that leaves me an aweful lot I can still do
HUGX
Lee
Whatever it is , I have it , I accept that, and just get on with living.
I can do ANYTHING in this life, EXCEPT drink alcohol, and that leaves me an aweful lot I can still do
HUGX
Lee
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Melbourne victoria
Posts: 1,975
Yep, I see your point BSP. my post really only reflects my ideas I guess, I have never really looked into it
but you know what? For me , it was a relief to admit I was powerless over the booze, and once i just accepted that as a fact, it led to healing in all the areas of my life that i percieved had "caused" me to drink. It did not make me believe that i was powerless over life in general, just over booze, so once that was out of the way, i could get on with the work of recovery.
HUGX
Lee
but you know what? For me , it was a relief to admit I was powerless over the booze, and once i just accepted that as a fact, it led to healing in all the areas of my life that i percieved had "caused" me to drink. It did not make me believe that i was powerless over life in general, just over booze, so once that was out of the way, i could get on with the work of recovery.
HUGX
Lee
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HI BSP,
Everyone has to find their own way with this issue, just as they have to find methods or programs that will work if they desire to change their behavior relative to alcohol.
At times it is a semantics game when using the terms like addict, alcoholic or drinking problem.For example, a person could be getting drunk on a daily basis. Outsiders may label her an alcoholic when perhaps this is a drinking problem and later the person changes environment and behavior and learns how to moderate.
Another person maybe have only two or three drinks occasionally but is fighting not to have a third or fourth and thinks about drinking all the time. While this person may not seem to be and alcoholic, in fact, may over time become incapable of moderation.
I can only speak factually about my own personal experience. Alcohol does not affect me the way it affects other people. When I have some I usually have more, the times I didn't have more it was a huge effort and I wanted more badly. No matter how many times I said I would have two and leave that is not what would happen. It didn't matter if I was happy, sad, mad, or glad, it just was what it was. When I wasn't doing it I was thinking about it. Not drinking at many times in my life was not an option because the obsession was so strong. People who don't have this physiology, IMHO, have no clue what it feels like. Both my parents and all my siblings cannot drink normally. To say this is a cultural bias when it follows migrating populations doesn't get it for me.
I am very strong willed. In fact, alcohol is one of the very few things in my life I really couldn't bend to my will. One member wrote here that the disease model was a way for alcoholics to cop out. I don't think so. I wouldn't wish this obsession on an enemy. I would rather be selfish or weak willed than obsessed and literally get itchy every time I drink.
They are finding our DNA code controls many things about us, hair, eyes, food and other preferences as well as many medical conditions. There is even some evidence that violent crime is caused by brain chemistry and exasperated by head trauma.
So, BSP, for me I know with no doubt drinking starts a chemical reaction and that may not be true for anyone else.
As far as powerlessness goes:
I am powerless if I drink it. I am not if I don't.
Everyone has to find their own way with this issue, just as they have to find methods or programs that will work if they desire to change their behavior relative to alcohol.
At times it is a semantics game when using the terms like addict, alcoholic or drinking problem.For example, a person could be getting drunk on a daily basis. Outsiders may label her an alcoholic when perhaps this is a drinking problem and later the person changes environment and behavior and learns how to moderate.
Another person maybe have only two or three drinks occasionally but is fighting not to have a third or fourth and thinks about drinking all the time. While this person may not seem to be and alcoholic, in fact, may over time become incapable of moderation.
I can only speak factually about my own personal experience. Alcohol does not affect me the way it affects other people. When I have some I usually have more, the times I didn't have more it was a huge effort and I wanted more badly. No matter how many times I said I would have two and leave that is not what would happen. It didn't matter if I was happy, sad, mad, or glad, it just was what it was. When I wasn't doing it I was thinking about it. Not drinking at many times in my life was not an option because the obsession was so strong. People who don't have this physiology, IMHO, have no clue what it feels like. Both my parents and all my siblings cannot drink normally. To say this is a cultural bias when it follows migrating populations doesn't get it for me.
I am very strong willed. In fact, alcohol is one of the very few things in my life I really couldn't bend to my will. One member wrote here that the disease model was a way for alcoholics to cop out. I don't think so. I wouldn't wish this obsession on an enemy. I would rather be selfish or weak willed than obsessed and literally get itchy every time I drink.
They are finding our DNA code controls many things about us, hair, eyes, food and other preferences as well as many medical conditions. There is even some evidence that violent crime is caused by brain chemistry and exasperated by head trauma.
So, BSP, for me I know with no doubt drinking starts a chemical reaction and that may not be true for anyone else.
As far as powerlessness goes:
I am powerless if I drink it. I am not if I don't.
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Hey BSP,
To date, there is no medical evidence to support the disease theory of "alcoholism." The DSM IV classifies it as a mental problem. The fact that drinking too much tends to run in families can simply mean that children are modeling the behaviors of their parents.
I don't find the disease concept helpful at all. And I am a little taken aback that the folk wisdom you presented in your original post is still accepted as truth by mainstream society.
I am not powerless over alcohol, because alcohol is an inanimate liquid. It has no will or life of its own, and when I was in AA, I saw this substance virtually deified.
For me, that was harmful because in order to stop drinking, I had to make the CHOICE to stop once and for all.
--Scott
To date, there is no medical evidence to support the disease theory of "alcoholism." The DSM IV classifies it as a mental problem. The fact that drinking too much tends to run in families can simply mean that children are modeling the behaviors of their parents.
I don't find the disease concept helpful at all. And I am a little taken aback that the folk wisdom you presented in your original post is still accepted as truth by mainstream society.
I am not powerless over alcohol, because alcohol is an inanimate liquid. It has no will or life of its own, and when I was in AA, I saw this substance virtually deified.
For me, that was harmful because in order to stop drinking, I had to make the CHOICE to stop once and for all.
--Scott
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maybe we've all been asking the wrong question all along. maybe it isn't so much whether or not alcoholism is an incurable disease as it would be more meanigful to define "disease" and "incurable" for ourselves. I can only do that for me, and am not proposing it be the truth for anyone else.
That said, to me, the western medical paradigm identifies a cluster of symptoms with a repeatable pattern and calls that "disease". Traditional, non-clinical medicines would focus on the root cause and understand that no two people are the same so that each person needs to be treated individually.
As far as alcoholism is concerned, I believe it is a disease when I drink alcohol. I also believe i still "have" alcoholism in a recumbant or dormant state when I don't drink alcohol.
Recovery, for me, is really about living my divine purpose here on earth without creating additional suffering for myself or others or the planet. Its about waking up and paying attention, and growing a heart. Its spiritual as well as physical. I would be interested in it even if I did not have alcoholism.
I shy away from identifying myself as having any kind of hard-science type label or disease because the language of disease modeling occludes the great potential for transformation, including changes in neurochemistry, that can take place with a clear and positive lifestyle.
That said, to me, the western medical paradigm identifies a cluster of symptoms with a repeatable pattern and calls that "disease". Traditional, non-clinical medicines would focus on the root cause and understand that no two people are the same so that each person needs to be treated individually.
As far as alcoholism is concerned, I believe it is a disease when I drink alcohol. I also believe i still "have" alcoholism in a recumbant or dormant state when I don't drink alcohol.
Recovery, for me, is really about living my divine purpose here on earth without creating additional suffering for myself or others or the planet. Its about waking up and paying attention, and growing a heart. Its spiritual as well as physical. I would be interested in it even if I did not have alcoholism.
I shy away from identifying myself as having any kind of hard-science type label or disease because the language of disease modeling occludes the great potential for transformation, including changes in neurochemistry, that can take place with a clear and positive lifestyle.
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To me,.....it was a disease. It crept into my mind. It overtook me while I otherwise felt fine. It masked its destruction with good times, good feeling, and clouding problems. It made me believe that I was a better, more likable person with it. It had me making terrible choices that I wouldnt otherwise be making. I stole for it. I lied to keep it. Rain nor sleet, nor snow or driving force of wind could stop me from getting it. Then it destroyed me. When I finally WANTED to stop,.....I couldnt bring myself to. It ruled me through terror and fear of NOT having it. Convinced me that life was not worth it, without it. It took every fiber of my being and every bit of remaining strength left in me to face the terror head on. I won. For now. That,.......to me,.....is disease.
And I dont need 'medical evidence' to know that. I AM my own medical evidence. Besides,........last time I looked, mentality was still part of 'Medicine'. Mental retardation is a mental disease. Nobody will really argue that, right? Why argue this? Who really cares if someone thinks its a disease and the person next to you doesnt? It is what it is to me.
And I dont need 'medical evidence' to know that. I AM my own medical evidence. Besides,........last time I looked, mentality was still part of 'Medicine'. Mental retardation is a mental disease. Nobody will really argue that, right? Why argue this? Who really cares if someone thinks its a disease and the person next to you doesnt? It is what it is to me.
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Does it really matter what it is labeled? BTW, alcoholism and addiction to other forms of drugs are two different animals. With drugs, I could quit when they became enough of a problem. With alcohol, I could not just quit and leave it alone, no matter what.
If drinking alcohol is a problem for you and the consequences are bad enough to make you want to change your behavior and you make up your mind and do it and just don't drink no matter what, you are a problem drinker. Drinking is the problem so quit.
With alcoholics, drinking alcohol is only a symptom of a deeper problem. Take the booze away and the real problem starts. Sobriety is the problem for the alcoholic. The problem that gets him back to alcohol.
Call it a disease or not, it doesn't matter. Maybe a physiological illness might be the proper term. It is a fact that alcoholics react differently to non-alcoholics when they drink. And they react to sobriety differently than most non-alcoholics.
If drinking alcohol is a problem for you and the consequences are bad enough to make you want to change your behavior and you make up your mind and do it and just don't drink no matter what, you are a problem drinker. Drinking is the problem so quit.
With alcoholics, drinking alcohol is only a symptom of a deeper problem. Take the booze away and the real problem starts. Sobriety is the problem for the alcoholic. The problem that gets him back to alcohol.
Call it a disease or not, it doesn't matter. Maybe a physiological illness might be the proper term. It is a fact that alcoholics react differently to non-alcoholics when they drink. And they react to sobriety differently than most non-alcoholics.
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With drugs, I could quit when they became enough of a problem. With alcohol, I could not just quit and leave it alone, no matter what.
I was pretty much the same with drugs until I found meth. I didn't even like them, and then the first time I tried meth. That was it. But I know others who have tried meth and they were able to quit easy.
I guess it depends on how we are wired. My mom can drink a beer and she is fine, fun to be around, but when she drinks wine, she turns into someone different. I have never figured that out.
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To me,.....it was a disease. It crept into my mind. It overtook me while I otherwise felt fine. It masked its destruction with good times, good feeling, and clouding problems. It made me believe that I was a better, more likable person with it. It had me making terrible choices that I wouldnt otherwise be making. I stole for it. I lied to keep it.
I don't feel like that with drinking at all. When I drink I usually just want to dance, or have fun, by the next day, I'm so over alcohol, not because of a hangover, I just feel like I need a break from it.
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Dear Done-With-It,
Yes, I believe what you say is true. But, in my case I don't use drugs for two reasons. I have no desire to use them, but more importlantly I believe that using drugs would get me back to alcohol.
Jim
Yes, I believe what you say is true. But, in my case I don't use drugs for two reasons. I have no desire to use them, but more importlantly I believe that using drugs would get me back to alcohol.
Jim
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I think it is a disease. There is no question in my mind that I am 'wired' differently than a 'normal' drinker. My alcoholism is progressive - my drinking and symptoms got worse over time. It does not matter to me what others may or may not believe on this topic. AA has helped me to deal with this and live life without alcohol. By the grace of God, I will have 15 months of sobriety on Sunday.
JMHS
JMHS
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Originally Posted by BSPGirl
I found it interesting that this article actually suggest that the whole disease concept only brings new problems for addicts...
......of all the addicts I have known (and I have known many) not once have I heard an addict say he relapsed because he believed "addiction was a disease......"
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Personally I feel the whole disease/not disease argument is tired and played out. If it helps you to think of it as a disease, think of it as a disease, if it doesn't, don't.
But in answer to your questions...click on the link to the story in the original post. It is quite through in citing it's sources. I didn't read the whole thing as I think the entire argument is a waste of time, but it is all there if you are indeed interested.
But in answer to your questions...click on the link to the story in the original post. It is quite through in citing it's sources. I didn't read the whole thing as I think the entire argument is a waste of time, but it is all there if you are indeed interested.
Originally Posted by equus
Who says? I have to say I don't recognise the above from research, do the BMA, AMA or WHO state this is the model they support? What date was it written and by whom?
It's not the definition of disease, doesn't seem to truly reflect the DSM diagnostic criteria - who says THIS is the disease model these days? Do they have the authority to determine that?
I don't think anyone in research is suggesting a SINGLE cause of genetics, or that there isn't a psychological influence.
It's not the definition of disease, doesn't seem to truly reflect the DSM diagnostic criteria - who says THIS is the disease model these days? Do they have the authority to determine that?
I don't think anyone in research is suggesting a SINGLE cause of genetics, or that there isn't a psychological influence.
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Originally Posted by earlybird
To me,.....it was a disease. It crept into my mind. It overtook me while I otherwise felt fine. It masked its destruction with good times, good feeling, and clouding problems. It made me believe that I was a better, more likable person with it. It had me making terrible choices that I wouldnt otherwise be making. I stole for it. I lied to keep it. Rain nor sleet, nor snow or driving force of wind could stop me from getting it. Then it destroyed me. When I finally WANTED to stop,.....I couldnt bring myself to. It ruled me through terror and fear of NOT having it. Convinced me that life was not worth it, without it. It took every fiber of my being and every bit of remaining strength left in me to face the terror head on. I won. For now. That,.......to me,.....is disease.
And I dont need 'medical evidence' to know that. I AM my own medical evidence. Besides,........last time I looked, mentality was still part of 'Medicine'. Mental retardation is a mental disease. Nobody will really argue that, right? Why argue this? Who really cares if someone thinks its a disease and the person next to you doesnt? It is what it is to me.
And I dont need 'medical evidence' to know that. I AM my own medical evidence. Besides,........last time I looked, mentality was still part of 'Medicine'. Mental retardation is a mental disease. Nobody will really argue that, right? Why argue this? Who really cares if someone thinks its a disease and the person next to you doesnt? It is what it is to me.
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