What do you believe?
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Somwhere over the rainbow
Posts: 1,175
MY BELIEFS IN CAPS BELOW... NICE COMMENTARY IN THE PARAGRAPHS FOLLOWING THE "MYTHS"!!!
Today, the main beliefs of disease-model thinking are:
1. Most addicts don't know they have a problem and must be forced to recognise they are addicts.
BULL, I CAME TO THIS REALIZATION ON MY OWN... IT TOOK A WHILE BUT I REALIZED IT
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
NOT TRUE, WHEN I ELECT TO DECIDE NOT TO DRINK I DON'T DRINK. IF I DO DRINK I HAVE CHOSEN TO DRINK. I HAVE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED THIS ASPECT MANY TIMES.
3. The only solution to drug addiction and/or alcoholism is treatment.
NOT TRUE. THE SOLUTION IS TO DECIDE / CHOOSE TO NOT DRINK OR USE AND THEN TO BUILD ON THAT DECISION BY ALTERING YOUR BEHAVIOUR.
4. Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease: A person cannot be a temporary drug addict with a mild drinking or drug problem.
I HAVE HAD PERIODS IN MY LIFE WHERE I DRANK HEAVILY AND IN MY TEENS WHERE I CHOSE TO SMOKE POT AND TO USE OTHER DRUGS. I STOPPED DRUGS AND ALCOHOL WHEN I WAS 21 ON MY OWN WITHOUT ANY TREATMENT. I REMAINED DRUG FREE AND ONLY INFREQUENTLY WOULD DRINK UNTIL I WAS 30. I DO NOTE THAT I HAVE ALWAYS HAD AN URGE TO DRINK MORE ONCE I HAVE THE FIRST DRINK B/C I LIKE THE INITIAL SENSATION, BUT THAT TOO IS A CHOICE B/C I MUST ACT ON THE URGE.
5. The most important step in overcoming an addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless and can't control it.
BULL, I TRIED THIS APPROACH WITH AA FOR A YEAR. COULDN'T DO IT AND I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE THE WHOLE POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL THING GAVE ME AN EXCUSE... SEE LOOK, I HAVE A DISEASE, ITS NOT MY FAULT. I FOUND "MY EXPERIENCE" WITH AA WAS VERY DISEMPOWERING.
WHEN I ACKNOWLEDGED HONESTLY THAT I WAS DRINKING TOO MUCH AND THAT IT WAS CAUSING ME PROBLEMS AND MADE A DECISION TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM AND TO CHANGE MY LIFE, THINGS CHANGED.
TO BE CLEAR "IN MY OPINION" AA DID NOT WORK FOR ME AND THAT WAS MY REACTION TO IT. IT DOES WORK FOR MANY. I AM NOT SHOOTING DOWN AA OR ANY OTHER FORM OF THERAPY, GROUP, TREATMENT ETC., IF IT WORKS IT WORKS.
6. Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not.
UNTRUE, THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM FAMILIES THAT HAVE NO HISTORY OF ALCOHOLISM OR DRUG ABUSE THAT BECOME ALCOHOLICS, JUST LIKE THERE ARE CHILDREN FROM ALCOHOLIC / USER HOMES THAT NEVER BECOME ALCOHOLICS / USERS.
THE RESEARCH SHOWS ONLY ONE IN FOUR OR ONE IN FIVE FROM A USER/ALCOHOLIC HOME WILL REPEAT THE CYCLE.
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
NATURE V. NURTURE. LIKELY PARTLY LEARNED AND POSSIBLY SOME GENES INVOLVED, BUT NEITHER IS PREDOMINANT IN "MY OPINION".
8. People who are drug addicted can never outgrow addiction and are always in danger of relapsing.
NOT TRUE. I WENT ALMOST TEN YEARS ONLY DRINKING SOCIALLY. THERE WERE ONLY ONE OR TWO INSTANCES IN THAT TIME WHERE I GOT REALLY DRUNK. THOSE INSTANCES WERE A RESULT OF MY CHOICE AND THEY WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF THE PEOPLE I WAS HANGING OUT WITH AS WELL AS MY OWN DISCOMFORT ABOUT BEING IN A SOCIAL GROUP THAT I WAS NOT COMFORTABLE IN, ETC....
WHEN I STARTED DRINKING AGAIN HEAVILY IT WAS A RESULT OF BOREDOM, ISOLATION AND LONELINESS, AS WELL AS DEPRESSION. I FELL INTO IT BECAUSE I STOPPED TAKING AN ACTIVE INTEREST IN MY LIFE, NOT BECAUSE OF SOME LATENT DISEASE THAT WAS LURKING AND WAITING TO OVERPOWER MY MIND. I MADE REAL PROGRESS WHEN I DECIDED TO MAKE THE CHANGE TO IMPROVE MY LIFE.
Sorry for the caps, seemed easiest way to have Q n A session.
Thanks for the thread, it is interesting. Levi.
Today, the main beliefs of disease-model thinking are:
1. Most addicts don't know they have a problem and must be forced to recognise they are addicts.
BULL, I CAME TO THIS REALIZATION ON MY OWN... IT TOOK A WHILE BUT I REALIZED IT
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
NOT TRUE, WHEN I ELECT TO DECIDE NOT TO DRINK I DON'T DRINK. IF I DO DRINK I HAVE CHOSEN TO DRINK. I HAVE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED THIS ASPECT MANY TIMES.
3. The only solution to drug addiction and/or alcoholism is treatment.
NOT TRUE. THE SOLUTION IS TO DECIDE / CHOOSE TO NOT DRINK OR USE AND THEN TO BUILD ON THAT DECISION BY ALTERING YOUR BEHAVIOUR.
4. Addiction is an all-or-nothing disease: A person cannot be a temporary drug addict with a mild drinking or drug problem.
I HAVE HAD PERIODS IN MY LIFE WHERE I DRANK HEAVILY AND IN MY TEENS WHERE I CHOSE TO SMOKE POT AND TO USE OTHER DRUGS. I STOPPED DRUGS AND ALCOHOL WHEN I WAS 21 ON MY OWN WITHOUT ANY TREATMENT. I REMAINED DRUG FREE AND ONLY INFREQUENTLY WOULD DRINK UNTIL I WAS 30. I DO NOTE THAT I HAVE ALWAYS HAD AN URGE TO DRINK MORE ONCE I HAVE THE FIRST DRINK B/C I LIKE THE INITIAL SENSATION, BUT THAT TOO IS A CHOICE B/C I MUST ACT ON THE URGE.
5. The most important step in overcoming an addiction is to acknowledge that you are powerless and can't control it.
BULL, I TRIED THIS APPROACH WITH AA FOR A YEAR. COULDN'T DO IT AND I ACTUALLY FELT LIKE THE WHOLE POWERLESS OVER ALCOHOL THING GAVE ME AN EXCUSE... SEE LOOK, I HAVE A DISEASE, ITS NOT MY FAULT. I FOUND "MY EXPERIENCE" WITH AA WAS VERY DISEMPOWERING.
WHEN I ACKNOWLEDGED HONESTLY THAT I WAS DRINKING TOO MUCH AND THAT IT WAS CAUSING ME PROBLEMS AND MADE A DECISION TO ADDRESS THAT PROBLEM AND TO CHANGE MY LIFE, THINGS CHANGED.
TO BE CLEAR "IN MY OPINION" AA DID NOT WORK FOR ME AND THAT WAS MY REACTION TO IT. IT DOES WORK FOR MANY. I AM NOT SHOOTING DOWN AA OR ANY OTHER FORM OF THERAPY, GROUP, TREATMENT ETC., IF IT WORKS IT WORKS.
6. Physiology, not psychology, determines whether one drinker will become addicted to alcohol and another will not.
UNTRUE, THERE ARE PEOPLE FROM FAMILIES THAT HAVE NO HISTORY OF ALCOHOLISM OR DRUG ABUSE THAT BECOME ALCOHOLICS, JUST LIKE THERE ARE CHILDREN FROM ALCOHOLIC / USER HOMES THAT NEVER BECOME ALCOHOLICS / USERS.
THE RESEARCH SHOWS ONLY ONE IN FOUR OR ONE IN FIVE FROM A USER/ALCOHOLIC HOME WILL REPEAT THE CYCLE.
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
NATURE V. NURTURE. LIKELY PARTLY LEARNED AND POSSIBLY SOME GENES INVOLVED, BUT NEITHER IS PREDOMINANT IN "MY OPINION".
8. People who are drug addicted can never outgrow addiction and are always in danger of relapsing.
NOT TRUE. I WENT ALMOST TEN YEARS ONLY DRINKING SOCIALLY. THERE WERE ONLY ONE OR TWO INSTANCES IN THAT TIME WHERE I GOT REALLY DRUNK. THOSE INSTANCES WERE A RESULT OF MY CHOICE AND THEY WERE A DIRECT RESULT OF THE PEOPLE I WAS HANGING OUT WITH AS WELL AS MY OWN DISCOMFORT ABOUT BEING IN A SOCIAL GROUP THAT I WAS NOT COMFORTABLE IN, ETC....
WHEN I STARTED DRINKING AGAIN HEAVILY IT WAS A RESULT OF BOREDOM, ISOLATION AND LONELINESS, AS WELL AS DEPRESSION. I FELL INTO IT BECAUSE I STOPPED TAKING AN ACTIVE INTEREST IN MY LIFE, NOT BECAUSE OF SOME LATENT DISEASE THAT WAS LURKING AND WAITING TO OVERPOWER MY MIND. I MADE REAL PROGRESS WHEN I DECIDED TO MAKE THE CHANGE TO IMPROVE MY LIFE.
Sorry for the caps, seemed easiest way to have Q n A session.
Thanks for the thread, it is interesting. Levi.
Paused
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
Instead of wasting energy rehashing this endless debate, more importantly, what are you going to do about the problem? That is what truly matters.
When we tire of this debate, we could always ponder this. What came first?
The chicken or the egg? Anyone up for that?
When we tire of this debate, we could always ponder this. What came first?
The chicken or the egg? Anyone up for that?
Forward we go...side by side-Rest In Peace
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Serene In Dixie
Posts: 36,740
I will take the AMA the CDC and this...
Quote from, "Beyond The Influence":
The answers to these questions are hotly debated by those who insist that alcoholism is not a true medical disease at all but a symptom of underlying psychological and emotional problems to which the individual responds by engaging in increasingly self-destructive behavior.
Alcoholism in not a mysterious illness, nor is it "willful misconduct". Alcoholism is a true medical disease rooted in abnormalcies in the brain chemistry - biochemical aberrations that are inherited by the great majority of alcoholics and, in some cases, acquired through intense and sustained exposure to alcohol and other drugs. WHEN THE ALCOHOLIC DRINKS SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENS. This difference between alcoholics and non-alcoholics is not created by personality disorders, emotional instability, character defects, or traumatic circumstances; it is a difference in the way the alcoholic's body responds to the drug of ALCOHOL.
This is not theory but fact, based on thousands of research studies detailing the nature, causes, and progression of this ancient yet perpetually misunderstood disease. More than fifty years of experimentation and investigation by distinguished scientists in such diverse fields as neurology, biochemistry, pharmacology, and psychology have provided the basic facts needed to understand the drug alcohol and the disease it creates in biologically susceptible individuals. We know what this disease is, we know how to treat it, and we know how to prevent it. The knowledge is in our hands".
Myth: People become alcoholics because they have psychological or emotional problems that they try to relieve by drinking.
Reality: Alcoholics have the same psychological problems as non-alcoholics before they start drinking, but these problems are aggravated (and new disturbances created) by addiction to alcohol.
Myth: If people would learn to drink responsibly, they would not become alcoholics.
Reality: Many responsible drinkers become alcoholics. Because of the nature of the DISEASE- not the person-they begin to drink irresponsibly.
Myth: Alcohol has the same chemical and psychological effects on everyone who drinks it.
Reality: Alcohol, like every other substance we take into our bodies, affects different people in different ways.
Myth: Addiction to alcohol is psychological.
Reality: Addiction to alcohol is PHYSIOLOGICAL and involves profound chemical disruptions in the brain.
Myth: Alcohol is an addictive drug and anyone who drinks regularly for a long enough period of time will become physically addicted to it.
Reality: Alcohol is a SELECTIVELY addictive drug; only a minority of drinkers will experience the need OR desire to consume alcohol in sufficient quantities and over a long enough period of time to become physically addicted to it.
as my beleif.
Quote from, "Beyond The Influence":
The answers to these questions are hotly debated by those who insist that alcoholism is not a true medical disease at all but a symptom of underlying psychological and emotional problems to which the individual responds by engaging in increasingly self-destructive behavior.
Alcoholism in not a mysterious illness, nor is it "willful misconduct". Alcoholism is a true medical disease rooted in abnormalcies in the brain chemistry - biochemical aberrations that are inherited by the great majority of alcoholics and, in some cases, acquired through intense and sustained exposure to alcohol and other drugs. WHEN THE ALCOHOLIC DRINKS SOMETHING DIFFERENT HAPPENS. This difference between alcoholics and non-alcoholics is not created by personality disorders, emotional instability, character defects, or traumatic circumstances; it is a difference in the way the alcoholic's body responds to the drug of ALCOHOL.
This is not theory but fact, based on thousands of research studies detailing the nature, causes, and progression of this ancient yet perpetually misunderstood disease. More than fifty years of experimentation and investigation by distinguished scientists in such diverse fields as neurology, biochemistry, pharmacology, and psychology have provided the basic facts needed to understand the drug alcohol and the disease it creates in biologically susceptible individuals. We know what this disease is, we know how to treat it, and we know how to prevent it. The knowledge is in our hands".
Myth: People become alcoholics because they have psychological or emotional problems that they try to relieve by drinking.
Reality: Alcoholics have the same psychological problems as non-alcoholics before they start drinking, but these problems are aggravated (and new disturbances created) by addiction to alcohol.
Myth: If people would learn to drink responsibly, they would not become alcoholics.
Reality: Many responsible drinkers become alcoholics. Because of the nature of the DISEASE- not the person-they begin to drink irresponsibly.
Myth: Alcohol has the same chemical and psychological effects on everyone who drinks it.
Reality: Alcohol, like every other substance we take into our bodies, affects different people in different ways.
Myth: Addiction to alcohol is psychological.
Reality: Addiction to alcohol is PHYSIOLOGICAL and involves profound chemical disruptions in the brain.
Myth: Alcohol is an addictive drug and anyone who drinks regularly for a long enough period of time will become physically addicted to it.
Reality: Alcohol is a SELECTIVELY addictive drug; only a minority of drinkers will experience the need OR desire to consume alcohol in sufficient quantities and over a long enough period of time to become physically addicted to it.
as my beleif.
Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: uk
Posts: 3,054
Originally Posted by tyler
Personally I feel the whole disease/not disease argument is tired and played out. If it helps you to think of it as a disease, think of it as a disease, if it doesn't, don't.
But in answer to your questions...click on the link to the story in the original post. It is quite through in citing it's sources. I didn't read the whole thing as I think the entire argument is a waste of time, but it is all there if you are indeed interested.
But in answer to your questions...click on the link to the story in the original post. It is quite through in citing it's sources. I didn't read the whole thing as I think the entire argument is a waste of time, but it is all there if you are indeed interested.
I'm not going to track it down because statements like the one below sound clumsy and (I could be wrong but I'd want to see it for myself) - just NOTHING like what gets said in journals or clinicians:
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
Member
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 3,410
7. The fact that alcoholism runs in families means that it is a genetic disease.
It is also my understanding that alcoholism is not a term that the BMA uses. And of the top of my head, neither does the DSM IV.
I have heard (and read on here) people with a drinking problem justify their continued drinking by saying they have a disease. It seems just another way of carrying on doing what they've always done and shows they aren't ready to do anything about it just yet. If the disease model didn't exist, another reason/excuse would be found, so I'm not sure anyone needs to be too worried that it's causing harm.
If anyone's interested in some thoughts of mine from a few months ago on the non-disease aspects, check this out http://www.soberrecovery.com/forums/...ngs-85073.html
Member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Florida
Posts: 7
i feel the same way... i really dont give a crap if it's a disease or not. at first, i did, because i couldnt accept the fact that my bf was just choosing drugs over me... now, i don't really know what it was. but i know he is clean and the NA program is what got him here. whatever freakin works man... i am just greatful that he is healthy again.
-M
-M
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by jimhere
BTW, alcoholism and addiction to other forms of drugs are two different animals. With drugs, I could quit when they became enough of a problem. With alcohol, I could not just quit and leave it alone, no matter what.
With alcoholics, drinking alcohol is only a symptom of a deeper problem. Take the booze away and the real problem starts. Sobriety is the problem for the alcoholic. The problem that gets him back to alcohol.
Not all better, getting better
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Beautiful Inner Banks of NC
Posts: 1,702
Originally Posted by equus
What link? I can't find one.
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pugetopolis
Posts: 2,384
Doorknob,
Yes, most likely that is the case. The reason I said that is because the person who started this thread seemed to want to lump alcoholism and drug addiction together. That is the prevailing belief these days, "a drug is a drug is a drug." Treatment center jargon.
Yes, most likely that is the case. The reason I said that is because the person who started this thread seemed to want to lump alcoholism and drug addiction together. That is the prevailing belief these days, "a drug is a drug is a drug." Treatment center jargon.
Knucklehead
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Davenport, WA
Posts: 4,005
Originally Posted by jimhere
Doorknob,
Yes, most likely that is the case. The reason I said that is because the person who started this thread seemed to want to lump alcoholism and drug addiction together. That is the prevailing belief these days, "a drug is a drug is a drug." Treatment center jargon.
Yes, most likely that is the case. The reason I said that is because the person who started this thread seemed to want to lump alcoholism and drug addiction together. That is the prevailing belief these days, "a drug is a drug is a drug." Treatment center jargon.
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Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Washington
Posts: 5,093
I wasn't the least bit interested in drugs and I have never had a problem with them. I could draw the line at drugs, but not with alcohol. So as far as the adage goes a drug, is a drug, is a drug, I can't relate.
Alcohol took me to the depths of h#ll, but I didn't feel comfortable with drugs. I viewed them as illegal, morally wrong and frightening. To me, it was crossing way over the line of out of control. I find that very strange.
Today I am frightened by alcohol because I am now aware of how powerful it truly is. I guess it is the fact that alcohol is socially acceptable that has helped form my opinion that alcohol is okay and drugs are not. For me, I know alcohol isn't okay, but for the life of me I still don't know why I didn't fall into the life of drugs as well as drinking. Thank God...
Alcohol took me to the depths of h#ll, but I didn't feel comfortable with drugs. I viewed them as illegal, morally wrong and frightening. To me, it was crossing way over the line of out of control. I find that very strange.
Today I am frightened by alcohol because I am now aware of how powerful it truly is. I guess it is the fact that alcohol is socially acceptable that has helped form my opinion that alcohol is okay and drugs are not. For me, I know alcohol isn't okay, but for the life of me I still don't know why I didn't fall into the life of drugs as well as drinking. Thank God...
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by tyler
Apparently the post was editted by CarolD and the link was removed. The reason posted is that it was the wrong link, but that is not true. I viewed the link and it is the complete article along with the references used to write it. It really was a well written and interesting article, I'm not sure why the "cyperpolice" felt the need to censor it.
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by leviathon
2. Addicts cannot control themselves when they drink or take drugs.
NOT TRUE, WHEN I ELECT TO DECIDE NOT TO DRINK I DON'T DRINK. IF I DO DRINK I HAVE CHOSEN TO DRINK. I HAVE SERIOUSLY CONSIDERED THIS ASPECT MANY TIMES.
By the way, I dont mean to be rude. Im sorry if I was. And looking up at my above post,...Im pretty sure I WAS rude. Im just very passionate about this subject. So I dont think you are a rude, bad, dumb, ignorant, or mean person in ANY way. I just wanted to put MY two cents in. I mean no harm.
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Leaving Sparta
Posts: 2,912
Originally Posted by BSPGirl
Apparently it's against SoberRecovery's policy to post links...but I do believe it was removed cuz it wasn't so pro AA....
(thinking about rolling my eyes.....)
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Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Nowhere
Posts: 889
Originally Posted by Peter
Whatever the reason for the removal of the link I can assure you it was not because it "wasn't so pro AA..."
(thinking about rolling my eyes.....)
(thinking about rolling my eyes.....)
Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Livonia, MI
Posts: 675
Originally Posted by BSPGirl
Let's say you wrote an article, Peter, put it on your site...wouldn't you like ppl mentioning the source when they copy paste it? I know if ya put things online ppl will of course go and copy it to messageboards, chatrooms, their own sites, etc...but I'd appreciate it if I'd get credits in some way for being the author...and yes, somehow my posts get edited an awful lot of the time, and I happen to follow another program than AA, and yes I'm paranoid enough and yes it's happened too many times to believe in coincidence...too bad I just won't go away.
May I ask what program you follow? Im just curious.
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Santa Fe, NM
Posts: 59
People who "recovered" through AA HAVE to believe it's a disease, or their recovery goes down the tubes. Therefore, I will refrain from pointing out the truth to them, for fear they will fall off the wagon. Sooner or later it's all going to come crashing down for them anyway, as it always does, because AA (and recovery groups like it) is just a temporary fix to a deeper problem. I can't imagine why anybody would willingly decide to tell themselves that they are weak and powerless and have absolutely no control over themselves--talk about defeated. I'm tired of all the stupid, lame excuses like "Oh, do you think I really wanted to drink? No! Alcohol made me do it! My disease made me!" Good lord. Human nature, people. Little kids run down the aisles of the grocery store and want candy. They want it so bad they cry and kick and scream and call their parents names when they don't get it. Imagine if we told the kids, hey it's not your fault, you're completely powerless over your candyholic disease, blah blah. Or the fatty who can't go home without a McDonald's milkshake, and nevermind all the people who pollute their lungs with smoke. For them, they make these decisions, regardless how it adversely affects them. For drunks, we tell them they needn't bother feeling guilty or taking responsibility, because they are diseased. I'm going to stop now, before someone who bought the disease model for their own recovery gets convinced and decides to pick up a bottle again.
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