O Well
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
yeah wow, in a way it might all be about having no control, for her?
i’m projecting, i think
remembering when i was that young and already in trouble with drinking.
not having it over where we want and need it, and then desperately exerting it in other places where we can.
just thinking: she decided to leave monday. but that also means she decided to stay friday, saturday, sunday.
song of disdain! love it!!
i’m projecting, i think
remembering when i was that young and already in trouble with drinking.not having it over where we want and need it, and then desperately exerting it in other places where we can.
just thinking: she decided to leave monday. but that also means she decided to stay friday, saturday, sunday.
song of disdain! love it!!
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 675
I'm so sorry to hear about your daughter O. I have faith she'll make it through somehow.. it may not be common to get sober in your 20s but some of us are unfortunately just "old souls" who end up learning these lessons early. I had a brief stint of anorexia when I was really young.. it was definitely about control. Drinking didn't become a serious problem til years later but I distinctly remember the first time I ever tried alcohol it was such a relief to not (have to) be in control.
Now control and power are two different things but that's another conversation.. it sounds like your'e doing great and remaining very grounded. It's probably both terrible and awesome that you're able to be fully present for her during this time, but you're doing it!
Now control and power are two different things but that's another conversation.. it sounds like your'e doing great and remaining very grounded. It's probably both terrible and awesome that you're able to be fully present for her during this time, but you're doing it!
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Terrible and awesome is a good description, Cos. I'm walking a fine line between trying to guide her and pushing too much. She is fiercely independent yet needs help and she knows it. Like her mom, she insists on forging her own path. I think perhaps the best approach is to acknowledge that and encourage her to explore her options with complete willingness to give every one of them a solid chance.
Projecting or not, fini, I see your experience as relevant. She's really struggled with feeling not in control since childhood. There are good explanations for that; things that, with the right help, could really be explored and then put to rest.
I feel a bit intrusive talking about all of this, and also somewhat self-conscious because so much of this situation is like looking at my reflection in the mirror. Not because it's "all about me," but because I can see the parallels so clearly. I don't know if recognizing myself in her is egoistic or empathetic. Perhaps some of each.
Things to be grateful for today:
- my daughter is in a safe place
- the refrigerator is running
- there is no water in the basement despite steady rain
- the furnace is working
- pure lye is a miracle drain cleaner!
- I don't drink and I will never change my mind
Still have taxes to do, but hey, I've got about 60 hours in which to do them.
Projecting or not, fini, I see your experience as relevant. She's really struggled with feeling not in control since childhood. There are good explanations for that; things that, with the right help, could really be explored and then put to rest.
I feel a bit intrusive talking about all of this, and also somewhat self-conscious because so much of this situation is like looking at my reflection in the mirror. Not because it's "all about me," but because I can see the parallels so clearly. I don't know if recognizing myself in her is egoistic or empathetic. Perhaps some of each.
Things to be grateful for today:
- my daughter is in a safe place
- the refrigerator is running
- there is no water in the basement despite steady rain
- the furnace is working
- pure lye is a miracle drain cleaner!
- I don't drink and I will never change my mind
Still have taxes to do, but hey, I've got about 60 hours in which to do them.
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: US
Posts: 5,095
Holy smokes O. You are going through it. And its so good that you are sober and able to be present for your daughter.
My daughter has issues with food too. Gawd. And I do believe there are a lot of parallels between eating disorders and addiction. Both are extremely complex involving so many factors of psychology, physiology and sociology.
Hang in there. Take time for you. Keep us posted.
My daughter has issues with food too. Gawd. And I do believe there are a lot of parallels between eating disorders and addiction. Both are extremely complex involving so many factors of psychology, physiology and sociology.
Hang in there. Take time for you. Keep us posted.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
"I distinctly remember the first time I ever tried alcohol it was such a relief to not (have to) be in control."
yes, oh yes, i remember that so clearly. i was taught, in my family, that we all controlled our lives, and therefore, by extension, everything that happened to us was somehow our 'fault'. the rigidity that came with these attempts at controlling everything was such a gargantuan effort....the relief found in the "letting go" of trying to control it all, the allowing of losing control...no, that's not right: the allowing of losing the need to control felt like freedom.
and i think it is, but just not by these means.
yes, oh yes, i remember that so clearly. i was taught, in my family, that we all controlled our lives, and therefore, by extension, everything that happened to us was somehow our 'fault'. the rigidity that came with these attempts at controlling everything was such a gargantuan effort....the relief found in the "letting go" of trying to control it all, the allowing of losing control...no, that's not right: the allowing of losing the need to control felt like freedom.
and i think it is, but just not by these means.
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Abridged from "24 hours a day:"
Having found my way into this new world, am I going to take that first drink, when I know that just one drink will change my whole world? Am I deliberately going back to the suffering of that alcoholic world? Or am I going to hang on to the happiness of this sober world? Is there any doubt about the answer?
This was in my email yesterday morning, but I didn't see it until just now. I get these every day from a very nice AA woman I met several years ago. Sometimes they don't feel particularly relevant, other times they smack me between the eyes. Fresh out of rehab, I would find meaning in every one; that was a good exercise and one to which I may return. Whilst drinking, there was no meaning whatsoever because they all speak of drinking in past tense.
When I stopped drinking 33 days ago, the messages each morning were spot on. This lasted about a week. Now today, this one. It speaks to my state of mind yesterday afternoon. These writings, they're something like an AA horoscope for me.
I don't know when it happened, but it was sometime during or after my visit with eldest. I noticed a distinct crack* in my armor, so instead of shutting the beast down immediately I engaged in debate. I could feel its compelling persuasion, had an idea that it might win. I hadn't eaten all day, and reminded myself of the classic AA HALT caution. The beast wasn't buying it, but I decided to stick with that theory until proven otherwise by the empirical test of eating something.
Got home, ate my steak followed by 1/4 cup of chocolate fudge brownie ice cream, and though I didn't give it a second thought; the beast was shut down. I didn't even think about it again until just now.
Note to self: Do not skip meals. It is far too early to fast, deliberately or otherwise.
* This board turns the word chi*k into all ***s. Does anyone even use that derogatory term anymore? I suppose they do. What a world we live in.
Having found my way into this new world, am I going to take that first drink, when I know that just one drink will change my whole world? Am I deliberately going back to the suffering of that alcoholic world? Or am I going to hang on to the happiness of this sober world? Is there any doubt about the answer?
This was in my email yesterday morning, but I didn't see it until just now. I get these every day from a very nice AA woman I met several years ago. Sometimes they don't feel particularly relevant, other times they smack me between the eyes. Fresh out of rehab, I would find meaning in every one; that was a good exercise and one to which I may return. Whilst drinking, there was no meaning whatsoever because they all speak of drinking in past tense.
When I stopped drinking 33 days ago, the messages each morning were spot on. This lasted about a week. Now today, this one. It speaks to my state of mind yesterday afternoon. These writings, they're something like an AA horoscope for me.
I don't know when it happened, but it was sometime during or after my visit with eldest. I noticed a distinct crack* in my armor, so instead of shutting the beast down immediately I engaged in debate. I could feel its compelling persuasion, had an idea that it might win. I hadn't eaten all day, and reminded myself of the classic AA HALT caution. The beast wasn't buying it, but I decided to stick with that theory until proven otherwise by the empirical test of eating something.
Got home, ate my steak followed by 1/4 cup of chocolate fudge brownie ice cream, and though I didn't give it a second thought; the beast was shut down. I didn't even think about it again until just now.
Note to self: Do not skip meals. It is far too early to fast, deliberately or otherwise.
* This board turns the word chi*k into all ***s. Does anyone even use that derogatory term anymore? I suppose they do. What a world we live in.
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Eldest looks better every day and is settling into the routine. She's now allowed to pick which foods she eats, within prescribed guidelines. When she mentioned she had now decided to stay until Tuesday, I told her they were actually planning to discharge her Monday. My thought? She knows she is making progress and feels safe, even if she does have resentments about the control and doesn't care much for her psychiatrist.
She's starting to make plans for post-discharge. When I mentioned something she could add to her program, she bristled a bit. I said, "I'm trying to help, not push," and she said, "Well you are, a little bit." It was ok - just an honest acknowledgement of my intentions and her reaction to my words.
My therapist assures me that he doesn't see anything particularly codependent in my behaviors with her. We talked about the financial support and came to the conclusion that the way to handle this is the same way I have any other major decisions impacting my kids & me - I need to figure out what's best for the family. We also talked about anger - this is something he really wanted to impress on me, that its good for me to express anger when its justified. And also, we discussed how the thing with the woman in the parking garage was a Spike Lee moment; me the older white middle class lady, she the young inner city black woman. Yup. (sigh)
Today I will shower, do laundry, make my next batch of crust-less quiche, take care of taxes, visit the kid, and eat meals at the right times. Doable.
She's starting to make plans for post-discharge. When I mentioned something she could add to her program, she bristled a bit. I said, "I'm trying to help, not push," and she said, "Well you are, a little bit." It was ok - just an honest acknowledgement of my intentions and her reaction to my words.
My therapist assures me that he doesn't see anything particularly codependent in my behaviors with her. We talked about the financial support and came to the conclusion that the way to handle this is the same way I have any other major decisions impacting my kids & me - I need to figure out what's best for the family. We also talked about anger - this is something he really wanted to impress on me, that its good for me to express anger when its justified. And also, we discussed how the thing with the woman in the parking garage was a Spike Lee moment; me the older white middle class lady, she the young inner city black woman. Yup. (sigh)
Today I will shower, do laundry, make my next batch of crust-less quiche, take care of taxes, visit the kid, and eat meals at the right times. Doable.
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Join Date: Jul 2017
Posts: 3,027
Originally Posted by Obladi 
Good thing I quit drinking so I can afford my tax bill!
(Insert political commentary here.)
(Insert political commentary here.)
Having to shell out thousands for the first time in years is the only political commentary needed.
Still showing the AV who is boss, I see. 😎
Life Goes On
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Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
I did everything I planned to do today! The dryer is in it's final round, I'm half-way through dinner or maybe done - dunno, took a break - and all the rest of the stuff is taken care of.
Eldest has still not flat out refused the day hospital gig, but she's certainly leaning that way. Family meeting tomorrow will be the last opportunity to persuade her. If she is not willing, then I want to focus on a solid plan for her next steps. She will resist the push, of course, but she does realize this has been a very serious event; if ever she will be talked into committing to things she doesn't want to do, now is prime time.
I said something about my hospitalization, and she quickly interjected, "But it didn't do you any good." To which I responded, "Well, that hurt a little bit. And it actually did do me good - every avenue I explored was an opportunity to learn something." She apologized for hurting my feelings, but really it was not a big deal. I'm just glad that we're able to communicate so openly now.
The beast has apparently gone off to sulk and bide its time until the next opportune moment. I was prepared for an attack driving home from the hospital, but all was and is well.
I lifted my new tag line from the author of "White Noise," a play that's currently running in NYC. She lifted it from James Baldwin to use in the show. If you're in that area and have any money left over after paying taxes, go see it and tell me how much you loved it! It sounds fantastic.
https://www.newyorkcitytheatre.com/t...hite-noise.php
Eldest has still not flat out refused the day hospital gig, but she's certainly leaning that way. Family meeting tomorrow will be the last opportunity to persuade her. If she is not willing, then I want to focus on a solid plan for her next steps. She will resist the push, of course, but she does realize this has been a very serious event; if ever she will be talked into committing to things she doesn't want to do, now is prime time.
I said something about my hospitalization, and she quickly interjected, "But it didn't do you any good." To which I responded, "Well, that hurt a little bit. And it actually did do me good - every avenue I explored was an opportunity to learn something." She apologized for hurting my feelings, but really it was not a big deal. I'm just glad that we're able to communicate so openly now.
The beast has apparently gone off to sulk and bide its time until the next opportune moment. I was prepared for an attack driving home from the hospital, but all was and is well.
I lifted my new tag line from the author of "White Noise," a play that's currently running in NYC. She lifted it from James Baldwin to use in the show. If you're in that area and have any money left over after paying taxes, go see it and tell me how much you loved it! It sounds fantastic.
https://www.newyorkcitytheatre.com/t...hite-noise.php
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Yeah fini. I really like how being present allows me to see/hear/understand these nuggets that are delivered (available?) in some of the most mundane ways.
- my car starts every time I get in it
- I'm good at saving, so have enough $ to pay that horrendous tax bill
- it rained all weekend, so I was under no obligation to mow the lawn
- I'm capable of helping other people, and am glad to do it
- cheese!
- my car starts every time I get in it
- I'm good at saving, so have enough $ to pay that horrendous tax bill
- it rained all weekend, so I was under no obligation to mow the lawn
- I'm capable of helping other people, and am glad to do it
- cheese!
Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
Hi O, just caught up with this thread. Sorry about your daughter's struggles but am I impressed to see how you are handling everything, including your commitment to sobriety
I have a ticket to see White Noise on Sunday, will let you know how I liked it.
I have a ticket to see White Noise on Sunday, will let you know how I liked it.
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Join Date: May 2012
Location: canada
Posts: 7,242
"I think that the inability to love is the central problem, because that inability masks a certain terror, and that terror is the terror of being touched. And if you can't be touched, you can't be changed. And if you can't be changed, you can't be alive."
a James Baldwin quote that has been on my bulletin board for twenty years.
a James Baldwin quote that has been on my bulletin board for twenty years.
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Thanks, Aellyce. I'm pretty pumped to "know" someone who is going to see that show. It sounds right up our alley. You know, challenging.
fini, that's a good quote. I think too that there are people who are capable of love but misplace it, perhaps due to that same terror. As in, maybe they are terrified that they don't deserve to be touched - the right way.
The family meeting was mostly a bust. She shut down after telling the doctors how much she had hated being there and would not under any circumstances consider the day program. We were able to help her to see that we are all just trying to find a way to support the best outcome for her. It's clear that she wants that support, but not the same way it's been given, and she is willing to look into other programs. So. Fingers crossed that she will follow through.
I sat in the hospital for several hours waiting for her discharge to be final, and felt this enormous wave of tiredness come over me. Actually fell asleep for a moment. It's been a journey this past week, for sure.
fini, that's a good quote. I think too that there are people who are capable of love but misplace it, perhaps due to that same terror. As in, maybe they are terrified that they don't deserve to be touched - the right way.
The family meeting was mostly a bust. She shut down after telling the doctors how much she had hated being there and would not under any circumstances consider the day program. We were able to help her to see that we are all just trying to find a way to support the best outcome for her. It's clear that she wants that support, but not the same way it's been given, and she is willing to look into other programs. So. Fingers crossed that she will follow through.
I sat in the hospital for several hours waiting for her discharge to be final, and felt this enormous wave of tiredness come over me. Actually fell asleep for a moment. It's been a journey this past week, for sure.
Life Goes On
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
Posts: 6,069
Feeling a bit of time pressure this morning as I'm expecting a call from an attorney to start straightening out financial matters long-neglected. I need to be past a dead spot on my commute to work before she calls.
Bit by bit, I'm taking care of business.
Stress can be borne. It doesn't take the promise of drinking at the end of the day to make it palatable. It's not necessarily easier now, but I'm finding myself facing things I would have previously continued to worry over without doing much of anything.
So off I go!
Bit by bit, I'm taking care of business.
Stress can be borne. It doesn't take the promise of drinking at the end of the day to make it palatable. It's not necessarily easier now, but I'm finding myself facing things I would have previously continued to worry over without doing much of anything.
So off I go!
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 10,912
I definitely found myself more sensitive to certain kinds of stresses (real and imagined) after I got sober vs. during the endless cycles of drinking and withdrawal. Also my OCD tendencies became more noticeable. But so much easier to handle all of that without the constant sickness and clouded, distorted, anxiety-ridden mind that was the norm while drinking heavily. Also, like you, I started dealing with challenges right away, there was no "recovery period" in the sense of taking things more slowly for me (the opposite as I usually neglected and took things way too slowly in active addiction). What I had to figure out and work on more was handling other tendencies for excess and distractions - that took a long time for me and is still not easy at times. But the effortless mental clarity and physical well-being in sobriety is priceless!
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