zjw

I never bring this sort of stuff at meetings tho. I dont even like bringing it up here. its stupid.

For example the last meeting there was one guy who was found dead on the tracks he had OD'd long story short. his brother the same thing. Others on parole or with ankle bracelets because of how screwed up there life is at the moment. Others who lost it all there kids spouses etc.. others who are doing ok 20 years sober etc..

How do i bring up petty issues like this? at times these things happen to me and i wanna just walk off the job. I'm so over it i'm so toxic i'm so tired of it etc.. Simply getting a new job isnt an easy option either so I have to suck it up and as scott states do stuff I dont wanna do.

But if i brought this up in a meeting I'd feel lke the guy complaining about the color of his shoes to the guy who has no feet.

And i feel that way bringing it up here too which is why i dont bring up my troubles much I feel there pretty insignificant in comparison to others.

and yeah all the tme i get the joy of watching my kids and so on and think how greatful i am how blessed i am i'm so stinking fortunate its not even funny.

ScottFromWI

A couple things here....first, you don't have to simply "suck it up". That in itself is similar to drinking in a way...you are not addressing the core issue but simply trying to forget it. I think part of the problem is that you are averse to allowing yourself access to the very resources that could help you. In this thread alone, you've already stated that you don't/won't want to talk to friends or coworkers about it. You also don't want to "bother" a therapist with your problems. You also say you don't want to talk with your wife as she's sick of hearing about it. You also say you don't like bringing it up here. And you don't want to bring it up at meetings. If you add that all up, that pretty much eliminates just about everyone and everything in your life as potential sources of help. At some point you will need to allow others in to help you with your issues, you simply cannot do it all alone. I tried that for a long time and the results were the same. I think a discussion such as the one you are participating right now ( this one! ) is a perfect outlet to work on these kinds of things. Don't rule out having a similar/rational conversation with your wife, boss, therapist, doctor,sponsor, AA meeting member etc!

The second point i'd make is that changing your job isn't going to solve this. Every job in the world requires us to do things we don't want to do and work with people we don't want to work with.

zjw

your right scott. and I feel better having brought it up on the board today etc.. But i dont like burdening people with my petty crap.

if it isnt obvious already I dont really like asking for help lol.

biminiblue

+1

ScottFromWI

It's not petty crap. As you said in your other thread, it's affecting you to the point that you don't even want to leave the house. That's pretty serious stuff right there. Not that it cannot be corrected of course...but it's affecting your life...don't be blind to that.

biminiblue

Z, I know my stuff that comes up all relates to being invalidated as a kid. I know you have some childhood stuff, too.

When I was constantly told I was wrong by my mother, I learned to never trust my own thoughts and emotions.

As an adult that manifested in not trusting anyone else, too.

By coming here and reaching out to others I find validation for my thoughts. That's what you just did, and you found some relief and were able to "process" through some of your emotions - which are totally normal thoughts!

This forum is here for this. That is the whole point of a self-help forum.

I think you just made a big jump. Talk . It works.

zjw

at other times I just try and accept things this is just the way that it is etc.. and i then turn a blind eye to various issues if that makes any sense. IE I cant control this or that so whatever and I move forward.

zjw

yeah i know talking it out helps. just some around me dont want to hear it anymore so I gotta reach out elsewhere I guess.

I think it was Kallista who had a thread once where seh talked about how everyone bugged her like she was the worlds therapist or somthing and it annoyed her. I thought gosh this must be how some around me feel lol and i've tried so hard over the years to tone it down. My god the amt of stuff people have had to hear about ad infinitum from me over the years lol.

So i'm trying to be understanding of the person listening to me as well and trying not to burden them.

LiveInPeace

Hi zjw,

I'm prefacing my post with the fact that I dish out suggestions and advice well but I suck at taking it myself. However, I know it works even if I don't always do it.

My m.o. was always to vent to others about how people treated me at home, at work, wherever. Vent, vent, vent. I vented to my sister, my therapist, my friends, my neighbors, my husband. Gawd I was awful. I didn't mean to do it selfishly, to purge what I'm fearful about or frustrated about to those I love. In the moment, I just wanted help; a solution; a way out of feeling so bad.

I had to learn a few things. First, to quit thinking that everyone else has the answers and that I am completely and utterly incapable of figuring them out so I must vent to others so they'll a)help me feel better, b)validate my feelings, c)tell me what to do so I can fix it.

Second, the Serenity Prayer saved my a**. I know it might sound silly, a freaking prayer?!?! Yup. What can I say. When it finally got through my thick head that it is such a waste of time to spin my wheels and waste energy ranting over sh*t I have absolutely no control over, I learned to let sh*t go. I love that little prayer. If my boss asks me to evaluate my performance and I have no freaking clue how to do that, I'd be better off if I took a deep breath and calmly thought about it, or calmly asked others curiously how they did it, then to rant and vent over the fact that it is so stupid for my boss to ask me to evaluate myself (I did in fact do this). I wasted a lot of energy getting frustrated, anxious, annoyed, etc over that.

Third, I learned that going with the flow in life is one of the most important things I can learn to do (still learning....). I would've been a lot more productive in past jobs if I just stayed out of things, smiled, did my work, detached, and let it go if people asked me to do things that I thought were a waste of time or unreasonable. Do you have a copy of the big book? Read the part about the actor and the director. It's on page 63-64 I think.

So much of my alcohol-ism is in my thinking. I want people to act the way I want them to act. I think I'm right and they're wrong. I have to learn to live and let live. I can only control myself, not everyone else.

Working the steps as instructed in the big book of AA helped me see where in my resentments that I was selfish, (spiritually selfish, which means what did I want/what did I not want) dishonest (the lie I tell myself, the lie I tell others), self-seeking (how did I behave when I didn't get my way) and frightened (what was I really fearing. It ALL comes down to fear, always). These are also called "turnarounds", or "4th column", or how we "look at our list from an entirely different angle". It helped me a lot to look at all of my resentments in this light, to see my thinking beneath the resentments.

Once I figure out the fear underlying the resentment, I ask God for help to remove that fear. And I trust God and ask Him for help to do his will. His will is for me to be courageous, content, and not living in my head all the time because He knows that resentment and anger will kill me because they lead to the bottle [or whatever addiction you want to insert here]

Finally, I wish I had the tool of gratitude during some of my past jobs. I focused way too much on what was wrong with the jobs, then on what was right.

I still find myself "venting" a bit, but I try to pause and catch myself before I do. I know I'm getting better, because my mother sent me an email telling me the end of the new Stars Wars movie (she's just nuts) and instead of getting pissed and venting about it, I actually laughed and just stated to my husband, "My mother just told me the ending to the star wars movie". Now THAT is freakin' serenity! (then again maybe I would've reacted differently if I was a star wars fan, but even so...lol)

You basically have two choices: you can either be pissed about your boss's request, vent about it to your wife, take it out on other people, wallow in self-pity and misery and negativity, wishing others would behave differently, or you can just sit down, take a deep breath or two, calmly think about your tasks that you did this previous year and which ones you'll continue to do during the upcoming year, and make a good faith effort in a positive frame of mind.

Hope this didn't come out lecturey. I've been in your exact head space many, many times. I *lived* there. I think many of us did. "Bottles are just a symbol"--it's our *thinking* that needs to be changed...

LiveInPeace

YES!!! ^^^THIS^^^!!!

Validate that your thoughts are okay, they are not right or wrong. You have a right to feel the way that you do.

Ask yourself "what am I really feeling under this anger?" Then you'll get to the core feeling or fear.

I remember being in an office job and having to do this task. I think my fear was, "they're going to find out I really don't do that much work around here, and they're going to let me go because I am just a meaningless pion, I'm going to be out of work, won't be able to pay my rent, etc etc"--that is just fear. Fear isn't true. I was believing lies that sick parents told me, that I was no good, less than, and would amount to nothing, etc. I had to change my attitude and quit believing the lies because it showed on my face, how I did my job and how I interacted with people.

Trust yourself enough that you can find the solution, if you sit quietly and tap into your inner wisdom (or what some of us more spiritual people refer to the God inside of us and everyone else). Ignore any old tapes from childhood that tell you that you can't figure this out.

If you still need help, calmly ask for it.

You can do this!

LiveInPeace

I agree, your feelings are NOT petty crap. But there are more productive ways to deal with them. Be kind to yourself.

Fly N Buy

Man, if I have learned one thing from being a bootstrap guy, never asking for help, sucking it up, putting it all on my broad shoulders - raised my depression era parents who said keep on truckin it's this.

If we want it out, we MUST shout is out - or type it out - share it out.

Not doing this kept me drinking for 36 years. I got this - my problems are stupid. I'll figure it out............Hogwash.

AA possible topics - helpful to OTHERS too
Change
Expectations
Restless, irritable and discontented
Second step
Gratitude meeting ( sounds like all those toxic need this badly)
Growing through pain

There's many more. These are not then I saw the man with no feet........
These are topics that are vital, on point and may save others lives and your own.

You are like me - independent, strong willed - fighting a war alone. I am mi50's, I have fought many battles alone. Until I reached out nothing changed. It was in the act of asking for help I found answers - not always in the answers themselves.

Consider sharing at a meeting friend..........

zjw

my job situation is a huge thorn in my side. i'm getting better and better at not allowing it to get to me i've made incredible progress all be it slow.

whats good about my job
I get to work from home.
I get to see my kdis grow up and be there for them.
this saves me on gas car expenses etc..
It pays the bills.
its not that demanding oddly
I can easily go running on my lunch break

(notice the list of pros has little to do with the work)

whats bad about my job?
just about everything else.
I dont like what i do.
I want a new line of work.

All that being said I honestly could not have sobered up without this job. I honestly dont know if i could hack it at any other job. I highly doubt in my field 'd last long working anywhere else. I go down the list of other things i could do for a living and short of taking a serious pay cut there isnt much i want to do or could even hack (IE i'd prolly not last).

so while I dont like the situation for now its the best fit for me.

just wanted to post htis so you guys can kinda get a feel for my view. I am greatful for this job. being greatful for it has taken a LOOOONG time to get too. its been so hard to find anything good about this job. but like i said if you look at the list of Pro's not much has to do with the actual work or job itself. Its more how the job fits into my life thats good.

anyhow it can be a struggle having issues with authority and not liking to ask for help lol.

EndGameNYC

As Scott commented, you cut yourself off from available help and you frame yourself as "helpless" (i.e., "powerless") to make changes in your life. No one I've ever known got anything of substance accomplished from a position of helplessness. Neglecting our responsibilities or allowing them to overwhelm us because we tell ourselves that we're not up to the task is not the same as "letting go" or "going with the flow." It's ignoring real problems, which can be the result of many personal factors. This usually makes things much worse.

You don't like your job and, from your other thread, you don't like the fact that you've been isolating yourself from the rest of the world. The only thing left is your family and, as bimini commented, it must be very difficult to work at home with such a large family and with so much going on in the background. When you work away from home, you're expected to be working more or less the entire time that you're there, and without distractions, outside of scheduled breaks. I don't come close to doing that when I'm working at home, and it's one of the reasons that I don't like working at home. Too many distractions. I'm certain that I'm not alone in this.

Whenever I've worked for other people, people who pay me for my work, like when I teach, I sometimes have to work through other people's stuff in order to get my work done in an efficient manner, whether I like certain parts of my job or not. I've written up syllabi and course outlines that don't come close to matching what I'm actually teaching, and then I go about my business. If, like you, I were to feel less than competent about my work, I'd feel trapped in the work I was actually doing. But I don't feel that way. Other times, I've invited the people who are paying me for my work to work on a serviceable solution with me, nurturing cooperation and making it much easier to present my side of things. When I'm told that I need to make more of an effort, I make it clear by what I do that I'm making more of an effort, even when I believe that I'm doing enough to get by or working at a high level.

You seem very passive in your sobriety. Like with your aversion for asking for help. It sounds much more like abstinence than sobriety in terms of your putting off the inevitable. This way of doing things (or not doing things) magnifies what is seemingly "petty crap" and, at some point, the walls start falling down. It's the hole in the dyke.

I would suggest that, again, combined with your other thread, the situation you've found yourself in can be a prelude to relapse. Isolation, feeling inadequate to work through daily though, separately, not at all overwhelming problems, and the idea that you're "beyond wanting to drink" are red flags. Something's gotta give.

On a final note, most people in therapy complain about one thing or another. Why else would they be there? But when the complaining doesn't go beyond that, something different needs to be done. The goal is not to feel better about yourself by airing your complaints, but to learn how to work through whatever it is that's causing you irritation in healthier ways. When we're reluctant to look under the surface -- and we are very often not the best people to make such an analysis on our own -- then we and the way we live our lives can become stagnant and, eventually, can become our way of being.

You also show signs of depression, and you mentioned the possibility of "social anxiety." You don't need to be consistently or intensely sad to be depressed. Depression is not a feeling; it's a state of being. Ongoing irritability, a sense of helplessness and a devalued sense of self are also cardinal symptoms of clinical depression.

As much as you may not want to consult a therapist or a psychiatrist for medication, it sounds like it may be time you did.

zjw

your right about the distractions endgame and others. its very hard around here. I've raised the issue to others in my household 100293120392103210 times and no one seems to take me seriously so I try and grin and bear it and to stll remain productive despite the distractions and despite my own BS swirling in my head. Only so much one can do tho. My hands are very tied in many ways.

Your also right that it very well could "COULD" all come to a head the leak in the damn as you say but I dont really choose to focus on what COULD happen. I figured it could happen years and years ago and it never did. Even tho I have my fears I realize i cant just allow them to rule me either.

Anyhow this threads got my mind almost worse off now then it was this morning to be honest.

I dunno that i am depressed to be honest. I have my moments today for example i've been in a lot of pain for a few weeks and this past week its come to a head I've had to take 2 days off from running as a result and thats a rather big deal to me. It can leave me questioning lots of things and without the release a run can provide me I can get pretty anxious etc..

I dunno for a depressed person as you think i may be I"m pretty happy 95% of the time. I run 50-70 miles a week eat a healthy diet and am usualy in pretty good spirts. Like i said I think I might just be off my game today.

this threads been helpful in giving me ideas or say refreshing my memory on other things i can do when i find myself in those struggles.

As far as leaving the house yeah its at the early early stages of is something up here? just kinda concerned. Ya know why do i feel this way about walking out the front door whats up with that? that kinda thing. I keep just breaking the ice and going forward despite the discomfort however.

EndGameNYC

It's not about your bosses' unrealistic (to you) demands. It's not about your wife and kids not cooperating with you to create a serviceable work environment at home. It's not about your difficulty leaving your home. But then, maybe it is.

I'm concerned here, zjw, that you're now minimizing your problems. You're framing them in a way that allows you to, again, not take in the help that's being offered. This is often what people who have difficulty asking for help do. "It's not that bad." "I"m pretty happy 95% of the time." You have an opportunity to take care of things and, partly because you thought in the past that things "COULD" come to a head, and "they never did." and "...its (your isolation) at the early early stages," you're not prepared to make any meaningful changes. Is it possible that you're in denial around whether or not it "COULD" happen or whether it's already happening? Meanwhile, you've been half-predicting that "they might let you go" at work for some time now. Do you have a plan in place for what you'd do if you lost your job? Do you have a plan were you to be unable to run for an extended period of time? Exercising is great. I think everyone should do it. But, by itself, it is not a plan for recovery.

I never suggested that you ruminate about what could go wrong in your future, though it does get my attention that you framed my comments in this way. I'm instead saying that it might be helpful to address in meaningful ways what's actually going on right now. I hate to say it again, and I and others have been suggesting it both several months or more ago and since then that you're very resistant to change and helpful suggestions that don't fit neatly into your view of things. You yourself have brought up this very issue again today. It's as though you imagine that acknowledging a problem is also its solution. Knowing things about ourselves is not at all the same as doing things to address our current problems.

I'm not at all reluctant to say that you need to start taking seriously the things that are calling for attention in your life, and stop passing them off as "I'm just off my game today" or framing them as transient problems because you believe that seemingly trivial problems in the past "never came to a head." I never had problems due to my drinking in the past, until I did. Even so, and like you, it took me a very long time and a lot of damage for me to do something about it.

So, and again, you are clearly very averse to change. "I keep just breaking the ice and going forward despite the discomfort however." Procrastination is not a good strategy, whether we're drunk or sober.

tomsteve

gotta sponsor?

zjw

thanks tomsteve. I wish i did. and that comes back to my issue of no local friends and my socialization issues. I try to get out there and work it i do but its not exactly coming easy to me.

many times I've thought ugg i wish i had a sponsor or something.

nope no plan at all for if i lost my job. Sure i got some money tucked aside and some ideas but short of that any more plan i'd not be in this job at all I'd be excuting the plan instead.

Same with running. I did realize a while back with the running what if I cant one day? so i got a rowing machine and a bike and I know I can always go back to walking. I realize that excercise has been so beneficial that no matter my circumtstances I gotta rise up and get up and get out there and do it.

I realize my work issues have been an issue for some time your right there endgame. Wish I had a solution myself. But in all this time? I'm still battling it out. I started this job years ago I left once for a better job i was happy to finally be free and find something better that company then folded I was unemployed for over a year while trying to get my business off the ground which failed abysmally so anyhow long story short I came back to this place. I had to eat and provide for the famly. Ever since I've tried to find a solution a replacement while being a father and sobering up etc..

If i could take a pay cut I think i could easily solve this but I might face many other obstacles as a result such is life tho. But while I have many problems and issues in life I'm able to tackel and cope with them. The job ? I go back and forth on this one. One day I smile buck up and plug along another day I may struggle. Job is just a thorn in my side.

I've had good jobs in the past I know they exist. I'll get a solution sooner or later.

Recovery999

I just work out and spend the time telling thme off in my head.

Hey...you asked

Recovery999

Spin it into a general topic: acceptance...life on life's terms...the fact that you can't change some situations...things like that. Usually those sorts of topics are relateable by everyone.