Venecia

Picture yourself in a coffee shop, having a nice cuppa joe with a friend. A friend who matters to you deeply. One you'd go to bat for because she's that important to you. Someone you've gone above and beyond for and would do so again.

What if she told you her bf needs 20 beers or it's not worth it. Twenty beers in one sitting. What if she has struggled mightily with addiction, but that her bf was pleased when she relapsed because it made his drinking OK. That he is, at best, indifferent to her own desire for a healthier life? That although he is an adult, she feels responsible for his drinking?

How would you respond to your friend? What would you want for your friend?

2ndhandrose

Hi sleepie, I really relate to Jeni26's statement here. I had recently relapsed (after 6 years sober) when my AH and I got together 23 years ago. Now I am 11 months sober; AH drinks every single night and has no intention of quitting.

I think about this a lot. I spend a lot of time lurking in the F&F forum. I have to make an effort to stop myself from fantasizing that he will want to change.

At this point, I am choosing to stay. He is not abusive to me. He just quietly drinks, plays his video games, and disintegrates a bit more each night.

I try to stay away from what I hope or what I wish would happen here. I try to stay in the moment and accept it at face value. What I see right here, right now, is what I get. I am choosing to stay without the expectation that this will improve or change for the better.

I try....I am not always successful

I am a work in progress. I love my husband. That he can't see that he could live a better way is heartbreaking to me.

There are lots of thoughtful, intelligent posts here. I guess mine will be the rambly one

The bottom line for me is - if I stay I need to truly accept him as he is, in this moment, otherwise I will drive myself crazy trying to change something that is out of my control.

tomsteve

Acceptance is the answer to ALL of my problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation- some fact of my life- unacceptable to me, and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing, or situation as being exactly the way it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing, absolutely nothing, happens in God's world by mistake. Until I could accept my alcoholism, I could not stay sober; unless I accept my life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and in my attitudes.

Perhaps the best thing of all for me is to remember that my serenity is inversely proportional to my expectations. The higher my expectations of other people are, the lower is my serenity. I can watch my serenity level rise when I discard my expectations. I have to discard my 'rights', as well as my expectations, by asking myself, "How important is it, really? How important is it compared to my serenity, my emotional sobriety?"

sleepie

Those of you involved with active drinkers who are otherwise wonderful people, I can relate to that. It bothers me but I guess as it's been with all the males I have dated (never females how odd) I have to be in charge, I have to make the rules. It just gets a little nauseating after awhile. He was a typical bachelor at first, then when we dated awhile he cleaned it up a bit, then when we were together more, he started "monkey see monkey do"- as in I ate my veggies, he ate his veggies, I lost weight, he lost weight, I quit drinking, he cut back...
can men please be adults on their own and make healthy decisions independently without making a woman feel like a momma bear showing them how it's done? Anyone feel this?

I guess I have decided if he wants to drink am clearing out for the night and the next recovery day.

So tired of being the one who thinks about things and makes actual decisions about life. That's always how it is though. Guys really don't seem to think about things, they'll just drift from one day to the next... my roomie and my bf both only went to the Dr because I said "Hey, it's probably time to go" They had never been in their entire life and both ended up with conditions that could have been a lot worse if they had continued on their way which they absolutely would have. So now one is on meds the other is watching it. I guess I am tired of feeling like I pay attention and care and nobody does that for me.

Venecia I understand. But also would that person have a generally caring and good partner? It makes a difference. If he was sober but a total jerk I'd be gone. He's not though, he's just extreeeemely immature and I hate being in charge all the time because he has sheltered himself from life to the point he has almost no idea at all how to relationship or deal with people.

Tooshabby

I totally get where you're coming from, Sleepie. I used to feel this way with Mr TS a lot - wishing he had more initiative and I didn't have to always be the one to do the 'rally call' to action. After many years I decided it was just easier to accept that that's the way he is. The flip side is that he is not a domineering person, easy going, very kind - all aspects of his personality that I wouldn't change for a second. He is also biddable, so if I suggest something he's happy to join in. I know how you feel always having to be the initiator, but in the end I decided it wasn't worth worrying about.

I personally think if a partner does not have a problem with alcohol and could easily not drink - and this would be of benefit to an alchoholic partner - then they should stop. That's just my opinion. With your bf though it sounds like he has an addiction problem of his own, so it's not a case of simply stopping to support you. I used to beg my partner to threaten to leave me if I didn't stop drinking because I knew it would work instantly, but it's just not in his makeup. I'm having to sort it out for myself which is better anyway.

I absolutely get where you are coming from. For me it was a case of accepting him the way he is. All in all it's a very good deal for me :-)

sleepie

Tooshabby as cow would say "Jesus God" yes- always the initiator. It wears a person out.

And this.

I used to watch "Intervention" and think... why are these people all against going for help? I would be floored if I had friends/family who cared enough to do that for me.

I can't be the only one who felt that way!

Thing is as far as me being the initiator, there are plenty of things I want to do that he won't so I have to do a lot f things on my own as far as seeing friends and that kind of thing. I'm always the idea person. "Let's do this" or whatever... yesterday I took him to his first classical music performance. I wish someone opened up my world a little that way. People here think I am a downer but the truth is I am just deeply disappointed because in truth I am very excited for many things in life and want to be a part of them but nobody wants to join me and I have social anxieties from being tormented and bullied growing up for many, many years.

Well, sorry to stray but you all are very thought provoking, thank you SR friends

Tooshabby

No, don't worry about straying - I think these things are really worth talking about. It's definitely harder if he is unwilling to join you in activities. Does he not like socialising?

sleepie

He doesn't generally like it too much. I don't need to be around people 24 7 but staying in for 3 weeks at a time is really bad for my mental health. I put a lot of into "Ok what does my self proclaimed introvert need today, did we already go out once this week, twice would be too much, I shouldn't ask if he wants to do anything..." I seriously calculate what not to do or suggest and am always taking into account his delicate, introverted, special person nature (yeah some sarcasm) meanwhile I fall down the cave of despair and stay in bed for 2 days because I have had zero social interaction in weeks and he doesn't notice, he's happy to be in his office on the computer. He would never, ever think "Hey maybe Sleepie would like to go and do something, we haven't been out in 2 weeks". And he gets meaner the more he stays in. I feel like I'm always taking his needs into account and he's just oblivious. I have needs too. And I need my alone time too! but not for 3 weeks at a time, it feels like back when my abusive parents used to cut me off from all social interaction and lock me in my room for days on end only to come out for meals. Between an abusive upbringing and being a social reject all my life growing up, I have missed out on a lot in life. I want to do some things now.

Soberpotamus

Does he actually try to prevent you from going out and socializing? Is he making it hard for you to leave the house?

sleepie

He doesn't generally like it, I am always taking in to account that he doesn't like it too much but he doesn't really think about that I might need to get out every now and then. And the more he stays in the meaner he gets! He was well into bachelorhood when we met, stay in all week, work from home, binge drink on weekends, inside alone. He had a very active chip on his shoulder too, which I'm sorry but get over it... he has every advantage. Just very immature and he even admits that shutting himself off of everything has not worked to his advantage.

sleepie

Soberpotamus I get so tired of doing things alone. I spent my whole upbringing that way. Just totally ostracized, and I still have the scars. I just want the guy I love to do things with me every now and then.

Soberpotamus

If I were you, I'd make it a point to get out of the house and socialize as much as you want or need. At best, he'll see what a positive difference it makes to your state of mind, and it might encourage him to join you on occasion. At worst, well, I guess only you know how he might respond. Act like a jerk to you? It might make it easier at that point for you to decide to leave the relationship.

This is your life. Don't let him dictate it.

And I say this with full empathy, because I am in a relationship (married) with a very negative person who tests my patience daily.

sleepie

It's not something I'd break up with him over. He does enjoy things sometimes he's just reluctant to admit it, I don't know why. As I have said in other posts, I have some pretty tough anxiety , and social anxiety as a result of pretty brutal bullying at the hands of my peers and family growing up so I am extremely self conscious. I am loathe to go out alone in the absence of alcohol. I'm such a nervous wreck about it a ten car pile up could happen in front of me and I wouldn't even see it because I'd be so nervous about who is criticizing me or going to publicly humiliate me over some part of my person. So to have a partner to go do things with sometimes would be dreamy!

Tooshabby

I think you are a similar age to me, Sleepie, maybe a bit younger. I'm 50 next birthday. I think the idea of a 'mid-life crisis' kind of fits for me in that I have a much fuller appreciation of how short life is, and I don't want to waste any more time with recurring problems (alcohol being only one of them). I think you get to a point where you realise if change doesn't happen now or soon, it's never going to happen.

I agree with Potamus - live your life the way you want to now. See how you feel doing things on your own, and see how he responds. Things will probably become clear for you as to whether you find yourself willing to accept him the way he is or if it's not enough for you.

sleepie

oops double post darn computer

Tooshabby

It's definitely a big plus that he understands about your past experiences and how they've affected you - that's a biggie and that *would* be a deal breaker if it wasn't there (imo). Perhaps you could be more persuasive about him joining you and not worry about the fact it's your idea/initiation. Just take the goodies if and when they come your way :-)

Soberpotamus

This seems to be the crux of the matter, for sure.

sleepie

I feel as if I am having a mid life crisis often Shabby. As you said- we don't have forever! I want to live well and I want to live well now!

Now here I have outlined my great frustrations with him as one will do. But the upside is he will actually engage in discussion about these issues and thoughtfully. I have to really work to get it out of him but he will go into things, he just does not communicate that well on these things, and communication is so crucial to my existence and life, I mean if it weren't for words and books and a lot of talking, I would not have learned anything at all, almost like a lifeline, I feel it's a little different than for others, hard to explain. I have to read up, research and talk things out until I am satisfied, almost obsessively.

So then after I present everything we usually discuss things pretty well. He goes away for awhile and comes back with more thoughts. So that's big points in his favor he does think about things we talk about.

Tooshabby

That is amazing!! Top marks for that. My partner is a great listener and talker but he doesn't come back to me later with added reflections. I'm impressed!

sleepie

It is top marks Shabby that's why I love him