Doug39

Excellent words. I need to remember this.

Like I said in a different thread, my biggest obstacle at the moment is trying to stop romanticizing about the great times I had when drinking and to stop longing for more of those great times.

I keep asking myself, if I poured a drink right now will it magically become a good time and a good memory? I know it wouldn't.

It is just so hard to let the "active alcoholic me" die.

TrixMixer

I did not realize there were two forms of sobriety, Unconditional and Conditional.

I am no longer addicted or dependent upon alcohol.

I do not "live in fear of that next drink"

I am not in fear of drinking again, not because I NOW find it immoral, but because it is not my life any longer.

I also still go to parties and places that serve liquor, and there is plenty of liquor in my home because my husband drinks, and I do not find it makes me uncomfortable in the least.

I do not consider myself an Active alcoholic--

Why is it then that I still believe I am a Recovering Alcoholic. I believe fear of how alcohol can still ruin my life for me is a healthy fear.

If you want to say there is an experience outside of mine that is yours, you will get no argument from me. To each his own.

Why is it that my Conditional sobriety seem so much less than your UNconditional sobriety?....because that is the impression I take away from your posts.

Maybe it is an AVRT thing and part of "the Big Plan". IMO, though, that is the place your thoughts might be better understood. I sure can not understand why you are so adamant about not being an alcoholic in recovery. If alcoholism is so morally repugnant to you now and not calling yourself one is "the experience outside of mine" you speak of ....well have at it.

Please don't define my sobriety as conditional because I admit I still fear what alcohol can do to me and my life. I think you realize that is unfair.

All of this is of course just my opinion as it relates to your posts to me only.

Sincerely, Trix

KateL

I concur. I have empowered myself and not had a drink for nearly ten years. I don't walk around defining myself as an alcoholic either. Paul Gascoigne is on facebook and all his fans can say are things like. "keep off the drink, mate." They define him with it and talk of nothing else. No wonder he keeps going back to it. There must be a balance and it shouldn't define you as a person.

freshstart57

Sure you do. The source of this is quoted all the time, right here in these pages. It has to do with sobriety being conditional on maintaining a fit spiritual condition.

These two thoughts seem to be inconsistent. You are comfortable holding these two ideas, and that is fine, but I am not.

I am not placing a value system on sobriety, yours or mine, while you are obviously free to do so. I am explaining why I choose not to call myself an alcoholic. I don't really care if you call yourself an alcoholic. Why do you care what I do in this regard?

As far as I am concerned, any thought I might have about drinking again, or doubt or fear in my ability to remain sober, is only my AV trying to get me to drink again. For me to say that I am an alcoholic in recovery would be to say that I need to do something or other to remain sober, which would be my AV talking. It would mean that there is a condition on my sobriety.

I appreciate the opportunity to explain this carefully, and no malice is intended to you or to anyone else. I believe it is important that others have an opportunity to read and understand a view of addiction that says that it can be ended, once and for all.

TrixMixer

If this is an" Absolute" condoned by the SR recovery site and has no ill effect on those seeking sobriety in any form ,be it Conditional or Unconditional?.....who am I to be offended.

I would just like those seeking that sobriety to attain and maintain it anyway they can.. If they chose to call themselves Nighttime Tylenol, go for it.IMO a sober life is what is important whatever you chose to call yourself. There are no higher levels of sobriety to aspire to. Live life without alcohol and find that life to be a good and productive one.

Signing out,
TrixMixer

BackToSquareOne

This topic is interesting, to just call alcoholism a disease can be a bit ambigougs. In my mind, it can progress to the state of a full blown disease, it doesn't start out that way tho. It also doesn't progress to that state in everyone who show early signs of alcohol abuse. To say that someone in the state of full blown addiction, the advanced stages of alcoholism does not have a disease, seems a bit odd to me.

dwtbd

I think though it is important to realize that everyone has the power to end the addiction , and once the addiction is ended the 'disease' is no longer present. At some point the chemical dependence ends and the choice to 'restart' the addiction is what is relevant.

TrixMixer

The Symptom of the disease is no longer there. IMO the disease is dormant at this point.It can be triggered just like an allergy by eating or drinking the wrong thing. At least that is the way I look at it. Each to his own .

ru12

Trix, we got you. You are a 12-stepper to the core. And that seems to work for you. Great.

Now if you had a 'real' disease, say cancer, would you treat that with prayer and the 12-steps? No? Why not? If a Higher Power of your understanding caused you to stop drinking and cured your disease (or arrested it if that is what you believe), why can't it cure your cancer? What kind of 4th step do you do for cancer?

Sometimes I just don't see the difference between AA stuff and faith healing.

TrixMixer

Oh Con-trier, ru12,

I am no such thing. Went to one meeting. I believe the only higher power we have comes from within ourselves. I do believe I had some spiritual guidance though.

I also believe sobriety is our state of remission. Our body will always have a weakness there for alcohol.Therefore we are at risk for relapse even after being sober for years.

Giving ourselves over to a higher Power--God--does us no good if our will doesn't follow directions.

Have no idea how the 12 steps are worked , that is not the program I followed. That was how little I knew about alcoholism.

ru12

My apologies as I thought you were AA.

So does belief in a higher power only cure the ''disease' of alcoholism? How about other diseases? Would you advise someone suffering from heart disease to just use a higher power and not see a doctor? Why or why not? I'm just wondering where this higher power stuff goes. It seems to if you have a god curing one disease why not others?

TrixMixer

I know what your saying, ru12. That is why AA was not for me. I think what they mean by giving yourself over to a higher power is letting go of trying to control everything like you know what's good for you. I do not believe it is a literal, rather a symbolic reference. I seems most alcoholics are somewhat control freaks , they feel they can solve the problems themselves and they know what is best. Giving yourself over to a higher power just means letting go of the control.

Obviously if you have cancer or any other serious malady just giving up to a higher power is no guarantee for a cure. That is simply a physical disease, therefore the will does not come into play. Alcoholism is a physical affliction that can only be arrested by the WILL to stop the intake of a substance. That will is where the Higher power comes in. ....and that term is up for debate and different for many people.

Does this make sense?

ru12

Indeed it does. Thank you.

MattyBoy

Totally agree. I was a bender drinker (would go on week long benders consuming a bottle or more of vodka a day) and then would have long periods of sobriety in between usually lasting 4-6 months but I screwed myself up more than most heavy daily drinkers I know have..