Some views on abstinence....
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Join Date: May 2003
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Posts: 1,432
Some views on abstinence....
Talking about abstinence….
Alcoholics Anonymous
This phenomenon [of craving], as we have suggested,
may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates
these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has
never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar,
permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest
is entire abstinence. [The Big Book, page xxviii]
http://www.nokama.com/bigbook/index....ing=abstinence
Relapse means returning to a drug of abuse after a period of abstinence. According to the disease model, resuming any addictive drug, not just the original drug of choice, constitutes a relapse.
http://silkworth.net/information/abstinence.html
With true alcoholics, it is never a question of control or moderation. Their only out is absolute abstinence.
Alcoholics Anonymous might well make the last two words of the preceding paragraph the second meaning of "A.A."
http://silkworth.net/aahistory/houston_press1940b.html
------------
SMART Recovery
Why abstinence? What we know is that after one has developed a severe
addiction, the simplest, easiest, safest and surest way to keep from repeating
past behaviors is total abstinence. This is not to say one may not go thorough a period of "day at a time," or "week at a time," or even try a "harm reduction" approach.
Still, if you want the easiest way to minimize the problems in your life, go for abstinence eventually. It actually is much easier to just give it up entirely
than punish yourself trying to moderate or control your addictive behavior.
Studies have shown that regardless of the method employed to become sober, the number one factor for sobriety success is a permanent commitment to discontinue use permanently; a commitment to abstinence.
http://www.smartrecovery.org/articles.htm
----------------
LifeRing
"Sobriety" can mean different things in dictionaries, but in LifeRing it always means abstinence. The basic membership requirement is a sincere desire to remain abstinent from alcohol and "drugs."
LifeRing welcomes alcoholics and addicts without distinction, as well as people involved in relationships with them. Please look elsewhere for support if your intention is to keep drinking or using, but not so much, or to stop drinking but continue using, or stop using but continue drinking.
The successful LifeRing participant practices the Sobriety Priority, meaning that nothing is allowed to interfere with staying abstinent from alcohol and "drugs." The motto is "we do not drink or use, no matter what."
http://www.unhooked.com/lsr/three_s_philosophy.htm
-----------------
Secular Organization for Sobriety (SOS)
Sobriety is the number one priority in an alcoholic's or addict's life. As such, he or she must abstain from all drugs or alcohol. … To break the cycle of denial and achieve sobriety, we first acknowledge that we are alcoholics or addicts.
We reaffirm this truth daily and accept without reservation the fact that, as clean and sober individuals, we can not and do not drink or use, no matter what. Since drinking or using is not an option for us, we take whatever steps are necessary to continue our Sobriety Priority lifelong.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/sos/
------------------
Moderation Management
Problem drinkers can make informed choices about moderation or abstinence goals based upon educational information and the experiences shared at self-help groups.
* Harm reduction is a worthwhile goal, especially when the total elimination of harm or risk is not a realistic option.
* People should not be forced to change in ways they do not choose willingly.
* Moderation is a natural part of the process from harmful drinking, whether moderation or abstinence becomes the final goal. Most individuals who are able to maintain total abstinence first attempted to reduce their drinking, unsuccessfully. Moderation programs shorten the process of "discovering" if moderation is a workable solution by providing concrete guidelines about the limits of moderate alcohol consumption.
http://www.moderation.org/assumptions.shtml
--------------------
Rational Recovery
"Sober" means, "Just for now."
"Abstinent" means, "For good."
Rational Recovery does not actively support moderate drinking or "controlled" drinking or efforts to reduce the harm from using drugs. We deny any difference between a problem drinker and a real alcoholic.
….. Even small amounts of alcohol or drugs impair the judgment necessary to stick with earlier decisions to drink moderately….
….If you have an established pattern of harm to yourself or others or have failed in any of your roles and responsibilities resulting from the use of alcohol, the continued use of any amount of alcohol places you at extreme high risk of new and greater problems.
We recommend lifetime abstinence from alcohol and other drugs for anyone experiencing problems related to drinking or using. Planned abstinence is quick, easy, cost-free, and risk-free, and it feels good immediately and in the long run.
….Once you have repeatedly crossed the threshold of deep pleasure into drunkenness, there is a strong liklihood that you will re-addict yourself with amazing efficiency.
http://rationalrecovery.org/faq.html
-------------------
Stanton Peele
[referring to Harm Reduction principles:]
1. While absolute abstinence may be preferable for many or most substance abusers, very few will achieve it, and even that small group will take time to do so and may relapse periodically…..
Learning to take care of oneself is a skill, a value, and an attitude. To say one accepts that human beings are imperfect does not mean that you endorse their imperfection. You want to encourage those you are helping to greater heights and larger successes. But it is the recognition and encouragement of smaller successes that lead to such progress. In particular, helping people to think about how to take care of themselves, even if they continue to drink and take drugs, may be an entirely new attitude for some people. When they first start getting medical care for health problems, or eating well or avoiding infection, or staying out of legal trouble, or getting a place to live, or accumulating money, etc., this new attitude can grow so that it crowds out all problem drug use or drinking.
http://www.peele.net/lib/smart.html
Alcoholics Anonymous
This phenomenon [of craving], as we have suggested,
may be the manifestation of an allergy which differentiates
these people, and sets them apart as a distinct entity. It has
never been, by any treatment with which we are familiar,
permanently eradicated. The only relief we have to suggest
is entire abstinence. [The Big Book, page xxviii]
http://www.nokama.com/bigbook/index....ing=abstinence
Relapse means returning to a drug of abuse after a period of abstinence. According to the disease model, resuming any addictive drug, not just the original drug of choice, constitutes a relapse.
http://silkworth.net/information/abstinence.html
With true alcoholics, it is never a question of control or moderation. Their only out is absolute abstinence.
Alcoholics Anonymous might well make the last two words of the preceding paragraph the second meaning of "A.A."
http://silkworth.net/aahistory/houston_press1940b.html
------------
SMART Recovery
Why abstinence? What we know is that after one has developed a severe
addiction, the simplest, easiest, safest and surest way to keep from repeating
past behaviors is total abstinence. This is not to say one may not go thorough a period of "day at a time," or "week at a time," or even try a "harm reduction" approach.
Still, if you want the easiest way to minimize the problems in your life, go for abstinence eventually. It actually is much easier to just give it up entirely
than punish yourself trying to moderate or control your addictive behavior.
Studies have shown that regardless of the method employed to become sober, the number one factor for sobriety success is a permanent commitment to discontinue use permanently; a commitment to abstinence.
http://www.smartrecovery.org/articles.htm
----------------
LifeRing
"Sobriety" can mean different things in dictionaries, but in LifeRing it always means abstinence. The basic membership requirement is a sincere desire to remain abstinent from alcohol and "drugs."
LifeRing welcomes alcoholics and addicts without distinction, as well as people involved in relationships with them. Please look elsewhere for support if your intention is to keep drinking or using, but not so much, or to stop drinking but continue using, or stop using but continue drinking.
The successful LifeRing participant practices the Sobriety Priority, meaning that nothing is allowed to interfere with staying abstinent from alcohol and "drugs." The motto is "we do not drink or use, no matter what."
http://www.unhooked.com/lsr/three_s_philosophy.htm
-----------------
Secular Organization for Sobriety (SOS)
Sobriety is the number one priority in an alcoholic's or addict's life. As such, he or she must abstain from all drugs or alcohol. … To break the cycle of denial and achieve sobriety, we first acknowledge that we are alcoholics or addicts.
We reaffirm this truth daily and accept without reservation the fact that, as clean and sober individuals, we can not and do not drink or use, no matter what. Since drinking or using is not an option for us, we take whatever steps are necessary to continue our Sobriety Priority lifelong.
http://www.secularhumanism.org/sos/
------------------
Moderation Management
Problem drinkers can make informed choices about moderation or abstinence goals based upon educational information and the experiences shared at self-help groups.
* Harm reduction is a worthwhile goal, especially when the total elimination of harm or risk is not a realistic option.
* People should not be forced to change in ways they do not choose willingly.
* Moderation is a natural part of the process from harmful drinking, whether moderation or abstinence becomes the final goal. Most individuals who are able to maintain total abstinence first attempted to reduce their drinking, unsuccessfully. Moderation programs shorten the process of "discovering" if moderation is a workable solution by providing concrete guidelines about the limits of moderate alcohol consumption.
http://www.moderation.org/assumptions.shtml
--------------------
Rational Recovery
"Sober" means, "Just for now."
"Abstinent" means, "For good."
Rational Recovery does not actively support moderate drinking or "controlled" drinking or efforts to reduce the harm from using drugs. We deny any difference between a problem drinker and a real alcoholic.
….. Even small amounts of alcohol or drugs impair the judgment necessary to stick with earlier decisions to drink moderately….
….If you have an established pattern of harm to yourself or others or have failed in any of your roles and responsibilities resulting from the use of alcohol, the continued use of any amount of alcohol places you at extreme high risk of new and greater problems.
We recommend lifetime abstinence from alcohol and other drugs for anyone experiencing problems related to drinking or using. Planned abstinence is quick, easy, cost-free, and risk-free, and it feels good immediately and in the long run.
….Once you have repeatedly crossed the threshold of deep pleasure into drunkenness, there is a strong liklihood that you will re-addict yourself with amazing efficiency.
http://rationalrecovery.org/faq.html
-------------------
Stanton Peele
[referring to Harm Reduction principles:]
1. While absolute abstinence may be preferable for many or most substance abusers, very few will achieve it, and even that small group will take time to do so and may relapse periodically…..
Learning to take care of oneself is a skill, a value, and an attitude. To say one accepts that human beings are imperfect does not mean that you endorse their imperfection. You want to encourage those you are helping to greater heights and larger successes. But it is the recognition and encouragement of smaller successes that lead to such progress. In particular, helping people to think about how to take care of themselves, even if they continue to drink and take drugs, may be an entirely new attitude for some people. When they first start getting medical care for health problems, or eating well or avoiding infection, or staying out of legal trouble, or getting a place to live, or accumulating money, etc., this new attitude can grow so that it crowds out all problem drug use or drinking.
http://www.peele.net/lib/smart.html
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
"Most people feel more secure on the twenty-four-hour basis than they do in the resolution that they will never drink again. Most of them have broken too many resolutions. It's really a matter of personal choice; every A.A. has the privilege of interpreting the program as he likes.
"Personally, I take the attitude that I intend never to drink again. This is somewhat different from saying, 'I will never drink again.' ...
"Personally, I take the attitude that I intend never to drink again. This is somewhat different from saying, 'I will never drink again.' ...
~Bill W.
LETTER, 1949
Copyright®1967 Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc
.
Copyright®1967 Alcoholics Anonymous World Services, Inc
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North Kingstown RI
Posts: 59
Wow Don - didn't realize that there were all these other formats out there - as usual you are a plethora of information. (Oops - am I suppose to be on the other thread with a word like plethora?? LOL).
Kathi
Kathi
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
Another A.A. view of abstinence
As I understand it by my own personal experience and the A.A. literature I have read:
A.A. simply states that it is a program of complete abstinence and that it is that only offer of relief we make.
Perceptions of what abstinence is left to the individual exercising our “right to be wrong� and to other programs such as you mentioned to be as absolute as they wish on their perception. As this could constitute an opinion on reform, which, according to A.A. is an outside issue for others to debate. Since A.A. will cooperate with anyone yet bind its self to no one, it may be adapted/paraphrased by others as you have pointed out.
Even though Dr. Silkworth is a respected person by most A.A.’s, his expanded views are his opinion from after his famous letter contained in our Big Book and so he warrants a place on his own, such as was given to Dr. Peele.
To me the word “abstain� also denotes a choice to refrain from. So for me it is partially about my freedom to choose not to drink. Out of the two million reported members of A.A., there may be just as many views on what abstinence is in subtle variations that have the freedom of changing day to day.
To me, A.A. also stands for what I believe to be two great gifts they offer everyone.
Anonymity. Autonomy.
A.A. simply states that it is a program of complete abstinence and that it is that only offer of relief we make.
Perceptions of what abstinence is left to the individual exercising our “right to be wrong� and to other programs such as you mentioned to be as absolute as they wish on their perception. As this could constitute an opinion on reform, which, according to A.A. is an outside issue for others to debate. Since A.A. will cooperate with anyone yet bind its self to no one, it may be adapted/paraphrased by others as you have pointed out.
Even though Dr. Silkworth is a respected person by most A.A.’s, his expanded views are his opinion from after his famous letter contained in our Big Book and so he warrants a place on his own, such as was given to Dr. Peele.
To me the word “abstain� also denotes a choice to refrain from. So for me it is partially about my freedom to choose not to drink. Out of the two million reported members of A.A., there may be just as many views on what abstinence is in subtle variations that have the freedom of changing day to day.
To me, A.A. also stands for what I believe to be two great gifts they offer everyone.
Anonymity. Autonomy.
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Originally Posted by dotcom
Thanks Don! Have you got anything on the CRASH program? If not its cool. Lots of good stuff there thanks!
I haven't heard of CRASH, and couldn't find any links. Do you have a web site address?
I should also note that there are, of course, zillions of other 12-step groups out there, and they may not share the AA view of abstinence as described in the quote from the Big Book.
Don
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
Dotcom:
In our areas, CRASH, SMASH, and MERGE are the anti-drug street-crime task force units that are often characterized by uniformed police in unmarked cars with heavy firepower. I am interested in knowing more about the ones you are talking about.
~*~*~*
Don:
Our quotes actually are the same, although mine is simplified for the title of this thread. Yours included the "Disease Model" and one opinion of absoluteness. As this is a forum for alcoholism, I was only referring to this field.
Every A.A. (which is an individual member) has the "right to interpret the program as they like."
In our areas, CRASH, SMASH, and MERGE are the anti-drug street-crime task force units that are often characterized by uniformed police in unmarked cars with heavy firepower. I am interested in knowing more about the ones you are talking about.
~*~*~*
Don:
Our quotes actually are the same, although mine is simplified for the title of this thread. Yours included the "Disease Model" and one opinion of absoluteness. As this is a forum for alcoholism, I was only referring to this field.
Every A.A. (which is an individual member) has the "right to interpret the program as they like."
Last edited by Mogqua; 05-12-2004 at 01:58 AM. Reason: unnecessary
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: laughing at my avatar
Posts: 1,636
Don,
it was started awhile ago in San Diego when my mom was still a probation officer. she saw the first "crash" inpatient treatment house and now its grown pretty big down here. i did some of their outpatient stuff but didnt finish it so i dont really consider that i did it, haha. i sort of only went once then decided that i would rather use. but now, i am thinking of checking it out. it was pretty cool. they had one therapist who really asked you questions... and you cant just say "im okay" because they know your bsing. it was good for me, because i always tell therapists that i am doing ok because i dont like the phone. so, now that im interested in it actually i cannot find any info on it! LOL... isnt that hilarious? i will check in the local phonebook and see what i can come up with.
hugs and thanks,
dot
mog,
theres probably more than one thing out there using the word "crash" LOL.
hugs,
dot
it was started awhile ago in San Diego when my mom was still a probation officer. she saw the first "crash" inpatient treatment house and now its grown pretty big down here. i did some of their outpatient stuff but didnt finish it so i dont really consider that i did it, haha. i sort of only went once then decided that i would rather use. but now, i am thinking of checking it out. it was pretty cool. they had one therapist who really asked you questions... and you cant just say "im okay" because they know your bsing. it was good for me, because i always tell therapists that i am doing ok because i dont like the phone. so, now that im interested in it actually i cannot find any info on it! LOL... isnt that hilarious? i will check in the local phonebook and see what i can come up with.
hugs and thanks,
dot
mog,
theres probably more than one thing out there using the word "crash" LOL.
hugs,
dot
Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: laughing at my avatar
Posts: 1,636
Don,
I found some info on CRASH! Well, I found local phone numbers and a little bit about the founder but that is it. I suppose all I needed was phone numbers! I hope to check it out and will request some info.
“Kenneth R. Cilch Sr. is retired from the California Youth Authority where he spent nearly thirty-five years supervising delinquent youth on parole. He is the founder and President of CRASH, Inc.� (He wrote a book and its on amazon and low and behold they had this “history� about CRASH). Scroll down to editorial review. Here’s the link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...64100?v=glance
Another Link: Scroll down through the programs (They are alphabetized)
http://www.substancetreatment.com/CA/San-Diego.php
Hope I have helped,
dot
I found some info on CRASH! Well, I found local phone numbers and a little bit about the founder but that is it. I suppose all I needed was phone numbers! I hope to check it out and will request some info.
“Kenneth R. Cilch Sr. is retired from the California Youth Authority where he spent nearly thirty-five years supervising delinquent youth on parole. He is the founder and President of CRASH, Inc.� (He wrote a book and its on amazon and low and behold they had this “history� about CRASH). Scroll down to editorial review. Here’s the link:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...64100?v=glance
Another Link: Scroll down through the programs (They are alphabetized)
http://www.substancetreatment.com/CA/San-Diego.php
Hope I have helped,
dot
Extremity
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: somewhere, out over that away
Posts: 183
CRASH and Other Programs
Dotcom:
Thank you for posting this info and please post anything more that you find.
CRASH may be the answer to certain associations problem in dealing with state mandated 'prop 36' clients where the state only pays for 60 day treatment.
The previous programs mentioned have already been explored and found to not be viable at this time.
I want to mention that there are other religious programs out there too for those so inclined. I'm not endorsing any one over the other and I'm sure there are more. but here are some more links under the Victory Outreach, New Wine, Overcomers, and Promise Keepers titles:
http://www.victoryoutreach.org/info/Values.asp
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~deverteu/npm/victory.html
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~deverteu/npm/index.html
http://www.crosssearch.com/Health/Counseling/Addiction/
http://www.christian-drug-alcohol-treatment.com/
http://www.overcomersinchrist.org/aboutus/index.html
http://www.overcomersinchrist.org/aboutus/unique.html
http://www.overcomersinchrist.org/ab...pbenefits.html
http://www.nrchristian.com/outreach.htm
Thank you for posting this info and please post anything more that you find.
CRASH may be the answer to certain associations problem in dealing with state mandated 'prop 36' clients where the state only pays for 60 day treatment.
The previous programs mentioned have already been explored and found to not be viable at this time.
I want to mention that there are other religious programs out there too for those so inclined. I'm not endorsing any one over the other and I'm sure there are more. but here are some more links under the Victory Outreach, New Wine, Overcomers, and Promise Keepers titles:
http://www.victoryoutreach.org/info/Values.asp
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~deverteu/npm/victory.html
http://home.cc.umanitoba.ca/~deverteu/npm/index.html
http://www.crosssearch.com/Health/Counseling/Addiction/
http://www.christian-drug-alcohol-treatment.com/
http://www.overcomersinchrist.org/aboutus/index.html
http://www.overcomersinchrist.org/aboutus/unique.html
http://www.overcomersinchrist.org/ab...pbenefits.html
http://www.nrchristian.com/outreach.htm
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 175
Hi
I am not a big fan of Stanton Peele or Rational Recovery and I suggest anyone who embarks down that road use extreme caution and do your homework before you embark on that journey ( you can read the info on thier sites)....and Im not going to turn this into a big debate..this is only my oppinion....steve
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Location: Northern CA
Posts: 1,432
Those are interesting links -- in that I couldn't find the word abstinence in any of them (based on a quick perusal)! They variously mention being bible-based, or founded on Christian principles, or using Jesus Christ as the higher power. But I don't know where in the bible one would find a specific basis for abstinence (as compared to prohibitions against drunkenness). Some mention being 12-step, and I think it's safe to assume that they all promote abstinence. But to keep to the topic of this thread, I don't find a specific view on abstinence espoused in any of them. Perhaps there's just an assumption that 12-step means complete abstinence.
There are lots of recovery programs. The link on this forum has quite a few, including many which are secular. Some seem to mix spiritual, behavioral, medical, and other approaches. I guess the comparison I'm making in the quotes I've found is among the philosophies of the sobriety groups, rather than the practices of private organizations.
A secular example would be the group in San Diego which has licensed psychiatrists and psychologists, and practices behavioral approaches based on CBT, but has an affiliation with Dr. Peele for those who are interested in a Harm Reduction approach.
CRASH sounds like a kind of tough-love, active-intervention approach aimed at offenders. I wouldn't be surprised if they use a mix of whatever abstinence philosophy seems appropriate to the individual.
It would be useful to have terms to define the 'recovery' groups such as AA, SMART, RR, etc., vs. the treatment organizations or programs, which may combine principles of various recovery systems.
Don S
There are lots of recovery programs. The link on this forum has quite a few, including many which are secular. Some seem to mix spiritual, behavioral, medical, and other approaches. I guess the comparison I'm making in the quotes I've found is among the philosophies of the sobriety groups, rather than the practices of private organizations.
A secular example would be the group in San Diego which has licensed psychiatrists and psychologists, and practices behavioral approaches based on CBT, but has an affiliation with Dr. Peele for those who are interested in a Harm Reduction approach.
CRASH sounds like a kind of tough-love, active-intervention approach aimed at offenders. I wouldn't be surprised if they use a mix of whatever abstinence philosophy seems appropriate to the individual.
It would be useful to have terms to define the 'recovery' groups such as AA, SMART, RR, etc., vs. the treatment organizations or programs, which may combine principles of various recovery systems.
Don S
Paused
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Central Valley
Posts: 175
Yo
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol - that
our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves
could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over
to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of
ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human
being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these
defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became
willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible,
except when to do so would injure them or
others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we
were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve
our conscious contact with God as we understood
Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for
us and the power to carry that out.
I think its fair to logically deduce without to much problem that after you read the 12 steps abstinence is not only implied but screaming off the pages. I think it has to do with the powerlessness concept of AA. The 12 steps are a spiritual path and speak to recovery. Steve
our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves
could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over
to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of
ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human
being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these
defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became
willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible,
except when to do so would injure them or
others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we
were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve
our conscious contact with God as we understood
Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for
us and the power to carry that out.
I think its fair to logically deduce without to much problem that after you read the 12 steps abstinence is not only implied but screaming off the pages. I think it has to do with the powerlessness concept of AA. The 12 steps are a spiritual path and speak to recovery. Steve
Salvador Doggie
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: The Left Coast
Posts: 49
Hello all.
My wife overheard a conversation I was having on the phone the other day.
Some friends of mine were making plans for the summer and somewhere, somehow, the possibility of my drinking again came up. I had to honestly say that it was possible for me to drink at that particular event. I don't know. I just might (just not probable).
When she asked me about this later, she was quite concerned. I had to tell her that I had no intention to drink there but the idea of a lifetime of abstinance was still just too much for me to fathom. As long as I decide every morning to keep my resolve just for today I don't feel like I'm wrapping myself into a commitment or promise that I can't keep. One day is ok. Abstinance for me is a short term state that I can only hope to continue. Diligence and persistance is easier as time goes by because of all the rewards that continually reinforce my resolve. I think one common theme in all the recovery programs I have seen on these boards, and in my personal experience, is a reduction in the stress we can put on ourselves to be permanant and ridged in our life. After all, don't we all really stop drinking to make our lives better, easier, more peaceful and productive. It should really be about taking it easy on ourselves(with a firm resolve).
Complete abstinance for me is necessary because, like many of you, I seem to process the booze in a different way than the social drinker. The benifits of being an alcoholic in recovery can actually be greater than a social drinker who still is not immune from the side effects of altering your moods and perception. I have found a higher level of respect from people from all areas of life (including those who don't know I'm and alcoholic) because of my abstinance.
Abstinance has also given me a consistancy that is admirable and generates a trust and comfort level in those I interact with. It is not like I imagined when I began down this path. It is not a restriction. It has quite remakably allowed me a more full and rewarding range of emotions, a vigor of imagination, and a confidence I never knew I had. Most of all I can be comfortable with myself TODAY. I never had that before.
Rudiger
Actually I wanted to say I know some guys from the Salvation Army(got sidetracked). It is unbelievable to see the success obtained from these people. Some real hopeless cases are turned around here. The guys I know went through 9 month programs and even got some assistance with employment after their completion.
Also one method I haven't seen on this thread is AVRT. Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. There's an old (and heated debate) thread from two years ago on this board, but it just got out of hand and I didn't learn much. Anybody ever heard of this one?
My wife overheard a conversation I was having on the phone the other day.
Some friends of mine were making plans for the summer and somewhere, somehow, the possibility of my drinking again came up. I had to honestly say that it was possible for me to drink at that particular event. I don't know. I just might (just not probable).
When she asked me about this later, she was quite concerned. I had to tell her that I had no intention to drink there but the idea of a lifetime of abstinance was still just too much for me to fathom. As long as I decide every morning to keep my resolve just for today I don't feel like I'm wrapping myself into a commitment or promise that I can't keep. One day is ok. Abstinance for me is a short term state that I can only hope to continue. Diligence and persistance is easier as time goes by because of all the rewards that continually reinforce my resolve. I think one common theme in all the recovery programs I have seen on these boards, and in my personal experience, is a reduction in the stress we can put on ourselves to be permanant and ridged in our life. After all, don't we all really stop drinking to make our lives better, easier, more peaceful and productive. It should really be about taking it easy on ourselves(with a firm resolve).
Complete abstinance for me is necessary because, like many of you, I seem to process the booze in a different way than the social drinker. The benifits of being an alcoholic in recovery can actually be greater than a social drinker who still is not immune from the side effects of altering your moods and perception. I have found a higher level of respect from people from all areas of life (including those who don't know I'm and alcoholic) because of my abstinance.
Abstinance has also given me a consistancy that is admirable and generates a trust and comfort level in those I interact with. It is not like I imagined when I began down this path. It is not a restriction. It has quite remakably allowed me a more full and rewarding range of emotions, a vigor of imagination, and a confidence I never knew I had. Most of all I can be comfortable with myself TODAY. I never had that before.
Rudiger
Actually I wanted to say I know some guys from the Salvation Army(got sidetracked). It is unbelievable to see the success obtained from these people. Some real hopeless cases are turned around here. The guys I know went through 9 month programs and even got some assistance with employment after their completion.
Also one method I haven't seen on this thread is AVRT. Addictive Voice Recognition Technique. There's an old (and heated debate) thread from two years ago on this board, but it just got out of hand and I didn't learn much. Anybody ever heard of this one?
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Join Date: May 2003
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Hi, Rudiger,
Abstinence is certainly the simplest choice, whether it's one day or forever. I guess abstinence is what you do, sobriety is what you achieve.
AVRT is Jack Trimpey's patented technique from Rational Recovery. Though his approach certainly invites vigorous discussion, there is no question where RR stands on abstinence!
I've always been intrigued by the term 'social drinker' since I never got drunk or embarrassed myself in social settings. Just at home. So I guess I was an anti-social drinker--fully able to drink moderately in public, and making up for it later!
Don S
Abstinence is certainly the simplest choice, whether it's one day or forever. I guess abstinence is what you do, sobriety is what you achieve.
AVRT is Jack Trimpey's patented technique from Rational Recovery. Though his approach certainly invites vigorous discussion, there is no question where RR stands on abstinence!
I've always been intrigued by the term 'social drinker' since I never got drunk or embarrassed myself in social settings. Just at home. So I guess I was an anti-social drinker--fully able to drink moderately in public, and making up for it later!
Don S
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