Don S

Having been one of the worst offenders in this regard, I agree Niner! What I've looked at is finding how a program 'describes itself'--using their own words--with regard to abstinence, spirituality, etc. I assume that others who have worked that program will enhance those quotes with others, or with descriptions from their own experiences.
Abstinence was a pretty safe one to start with--all of the programs except MM describe themselves as abstinence-based. Spirituality and religion would have some obvious risks, but since we've discussed pretty much every angle of that topic it might be possible to just present the basic positions of the organizations and agree to disagree.
As to what the moderators will allow, I think I'll let Chy answer that. But my assumption is that basic civility is the key.

Getting back to the topic at hand....
To me, abstinence means that I don't consume alcohol: I don't buy it, don't drink it, and don't accept it if offered. That is the simplest way to avoid my previous drinking behavior, and I expect that decision to be permanent. Sobriety means that I have chosen abstinence and found other ways of achieving what alcohol was doing for me before. Long-term sobriety means that I no longer seriously consider any desire to drink, and that those thoughts have diminished significantly in frequency and duration. It is just behavior that I used to do, and don't do anymore.
Don S

Mogqua

Don: I think I have just read your finest post here.


IMO: All programs are valid and any attempt to invalidate any of them really attacks the person and not the program. How could any one of us NOT take it personally? We can create confusion or harmony here. I hope it will be the later.

Chy

Yup, what he said!